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30-378 Wby Mag

24 Nov 2016
@ 07:25 pm (GMT)

Mike Owens

I've had my 30-378 for a couple of years and to date have taken a few animals at extended ranges using both factory ammo and hand loads from a local guy in Christchurch NZ.
I am now looking at starting to reload my own ammo as I already have all the gear but need some advice on load development.
I have some 180g TTSX and some 200g LRX projectiles that I want to start with, but have not brought any powder yet.

Rifle is a Mk5 Weatherby with a 28" Trueflite barrel with the factory muzzle break.

Any advice appreciated

Mike

Replies

24 Nov 2016
@ 07:54 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: 30-378 Wby Mag
Hi Mike, please start here:

http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Homogenous+copper+bullets+can+be+inhumane.html

You are going to need to get your head in the game to reach right out. I suggest reading the book series first before moving forwards. That means starting with the rifles book, following the steps all the way through, study the cartridge book, then the Accurizing, reloading and shooting book. The projectile you will need to focus on is the 208gr ELD-M, previously branded as the 208gr A-MAX.

Read the books first please. There is a lot to go wrong out long, a big difference between long range shooting and effective long range killing. Just because a bullet, a gun, a shooting school or whatever has the word long range attached to it, doesn't mean its right or optimal for the job. Use the books to open your eyes to the realities of this, to learn, to cut through the crap.

All the best.

Below Pic- A True-Flite .300Wby we put together a couple of years back.



12 Dec 2016
@ 12:17 am (GMT)

Mike Owens

Re: 30-378 Wby Mag
I've got a couple of boxes of new factory Weatherby 30 378 ammo loaded with 180gr Accubonds. Is it possible / practical to pull the projectiles and replace them with some of the 208gr ELD M. I know the powder charge will need adjusting but can this be done safely ?? or do I just ditch the powder and start again with new powder of a known brand.
16 Dec 2016
@ 06:34 am (GMT)

mark

Re: 30-378 Wby Mag
Hi Mike... oooooh that sounds dodgy, do you know the exact factory powder used?, if not throw it out! I think neck tension will be weak after pulling the projectiles too.

Have you done the gun city reloading course? its essential to get some proper guidance before fiddling with reloading especially with something like the 30-378. Start from scratch with your once fired brass.

I think you might be a member at the hand loaders are you ? you know Isaac?



16 Dec 2016
@ 07:16 am (GMT)

Mike Owens

Re: 30-378 Wby Mag
I've not done the gun city course and not a member of the hand loaders, but I'm keen to learn from the best. Who would you recommend? ?

I was using Percision reloading services for my reloads but he is no longer around. I have reloaded for my 243 as 280 rem in the past so understand the process but the 30 378 is a different beast.

16 Dec 2016
@ 11:02 am (GMT)

Mark

Re: 30-378 Wby Mag
Sorry Mike, my mistake I know there's a guy named mike in the handloaders with a 378 variant, think maybe it's a 338 -378.

I've seen a guy blow 2 semiautomatic .223s in one night using the wrong powder! Hate to think what would happen to a 378 case!

I'm not sure who to recommend to assist, if you've done the course and some reloading you should be good to go, just take it slow and methodical. Read as much as you can, Nathan's reloading book is well worth buying. I just got a great reloading book from the library which is super helpful too.

The handloaders is an excellent club, puts you in touch with heaps of knowledgeable and experienced reloaders. Plus access to the range when ever you want to work on your load development. They have a loading room too.


16 Dec 2016
@ 12:08 pm (GMT)

Paul Leverman

Re: 30-378 Wby Mag
Pulling the bullets and replacing them is not a problem. The powder that is in the rounds should be disposed of safely.

If you are thinking of replacing the bullets, pull them with a collet or a kinetic style (preferred choice) and run your brass through the dies again, just to straighten and size the neck to where it should be, and while you are there, check your lengths too. You will also have to adjust your decapping pin length so as not to take out the primer. If there was a heavy crimp on the bullets, you may lose your accuracy, but you can use them for your fireforming with TrailBoss and save your 208s for the real shooting.

As Mark said, DO NOT re-use that powder.
16 Dec 2016
@ 10:04 pm (GMT)

Mike Owens

Re: 30-378 Wby Mag
Hi Paul
I've got 3 of Nathan books, Long range shooting, Bolt action accurizing and Practical Reloading. I have read them a couple of times each and feel comfortable with what he is saying.

With the factory loads I've got should I just fire them off on some medium range game ?? If I'm not going to use the accubonds again and the factory powder is to be disposed of I may as well fire them off and at least this way the cases will be Fireformed.
Nathan has recommended using Retumbo powder behind some 208gr ELD M projectiles, but I've not been able to find any loading information for this powder for the 30 378 Wby Mag. Do you know where this info is available from.
17 Dec 2016
@ 01:07 am (GMT)

Paul Leverman

Re: 30-378 Wby Mag
Mike - I would be in the same boat as you when it came to reloading the Weatherby and Retumbo. I'm thinking google it, unless someone here has the info or experience with that round.

The same would go for the AB's. I've not used them, nor do I intend to, so that's pretty well your call. I would check and see what the sensei has to say about them and follow his teachings. If it was me, I would use the factory rounds as practice for hold/breathing/technique, and end up with fireformed brass that's ready to rock.

When I bought my Ruger it came with seven boxes of reloads. I got tired of pulling bullets and just started shooting them. Way more fun.

I just took a quick look and the Hodgdon site has the info.
17 Dec 2016
@ 11:32 pm (GMT)

mark

Re: 30-378 Wby Mag
Nosler has Data for retumbo too, not for that exact bullet but give you something to get started. 210grain is there.
18 Dec 2016
@ 12:07 am (GMT)

Mike Owens

Re: 30-378 Wby Mag
Cheers for that Mark.
I don't currently have a neck sizing die for the 30 378 and was tossing up between the standard die or going for a bush style so I can fine tune the neck forming process. You thoughts ??
Santa has just brought me a Hornady lock N load concentricity tool which should be very handy.
22 Dec 2016
@ 03:39 am (GMT)

mark

Re: 30-378 Wby Mag
Hi Mike, it will be nice to have the concentricity tool!
Sorry I'm not much help with the bushing neck sizing die, Ive got several lee collet neck sizing dies which I use for my rifles, they work great, they are all I have had experience with. But they would be a custom die set in 30-378 from Lee I think.





22 Dec 2016
@ 04:37 pm (GMT)

Paul Leverman

Re: 30-378 Wby Mag
In regards to the neck sizing dies, I have both the Redding and the Lee for my 338 WinMag, as well as the junk that comes in the green boxes. The Redding bushing dies are great for adjusting neck tension and minimal sizing. The Lee Precision take the brass back to SAAMI specs. Nothing wrong with either, depends on what you are looking for. Cost is a major issue, with the Redding being in the hundreds of dollars and the Lee being much less. Run-out results from both styles are almost equal, both being acceptable according to the LR series. As to the "standard" dies, and this is only in regards to the ones that come in the green plastic boxes that have four letters in their name: if you lived across the street from me, and I was willing to give them to you at no cost, I would not expend the energy to take them off the bench and walk them over and hand them to you. If it wasn't so much work to open the window and throw them in the ditch, I would.
22 Dec 2016
@ 06:12 pm (GMT)

Mike Owens

Re: 30-378 Wby Mag
Hi Paul

I've got the use of a 2 die set in the green box from a friend, but from what your saying I'm better to buy either a Lee or Redding neck die.
Now excuse my ignorance as I'm new to this long range precision reloading but I'm trying to get my head around the use of a Redding bush style neck sizing die rather than the standard neck die. After measuring up a case neck after it's been through the F/L die I can see that it takes the neck down around .003 more than it needs to be and then the resizing ball just opens it back up to the finished size. So the whole object of using the bushing die system is to calculate the optimal bush size so that you don't overwork the neck brass ??.
Secondly if you wanted to experiment with neck tension do you have to adjust the Dia of the sizing ball or do you just reduce the bush size hoping the neck will tighter once the resizing ball had been through, or will the resizing ball always return the neck to the same size regardless of what size the bush was ??

Cheers Mike
22 Dec 2016
@ 06:12 pm (GMT)

Mike Owens

Re: 30-378 Wby Mag
Hi Paul

I've got the use of a 2 die set in the green box from a friend, but from what your saying I'm better to buy either a Lee or Redding neck die.
Now excuse my ignorance as I'm new to this long range precision reloading but I'm trying to get my head around the use of a Redding bush style neck sizing die rather than the standard neck die. After measuring up a case neck after it's been through the F/L die I can see that it takes the neck down around .003 more than it needs to be and then the resizing ball just opens it back up to the finished size. So the whole object of using the bushing die system is to calculate the optimal bush size so that you don't overwork the neck brass ??.
Secondly if you wanted to experiment with neck tension do you have to adjust the Dia of the sizing ball or do you just reduce the bush size hoping the neck will tighter once the resizing ball had been through, or will the resizing ball always return the neck to the same size regardless of what size the bush was ??

Cheers Mike
22 Dec 2016
@ 06:41 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: 30-378 Wby Mag
Hi Mike, there is no expander button on the bushing die. It is the bushing alone that sizes- without pushing the case back and forth.

Thanks Paul for helping out with this thread, all good advice that needs to be followed. It really does make such a big difference.

Retumbo / 2225 or H1000 / 2217 will be ideal. Start load 100 grains with either. Make sure you use a chrony and start looking for sweet spots at 3050fps up, though you may also want to take note of low nodes.
22 Dec 2016
@ 07:46 pm (GMT)

Mike Owens

Re: 30-378 Wby Mag
Hi Nathan
Now that makes total sense that there is no sizing button. So the consistency of the wall thickness on the neck is going to be critical to achieve consistent tension on the bullets.
I've read on the Redding site that they recommend measuring the neck Dia of a loaded cartridge and then buy bushes .002 to .003 smaller. Do you agree with this Nathan ??.
Looks like I'm going to have to import a neck die and bushes so I want to make sure that I get enough bushes of the correct size.
To date when I F/L Resize the neck is .332 b4 the bullet is seated and once the bullet has been seated it measures .334 which confirms the .002 under that the bushing should be according to Redding.
What size bushes would you suggest I order ??

Cheers Mike
22 Dec 2016
@ 10:06 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: 30-378 Wby Mag
My advice is to order more than one bushing. The first should be as they have suggested, the second should be 1 or 2 thou tighter (or both bushings for a total of 3). This will allow you to manipulate ES which is a major factor.

The same applies if you order a Lee custom. Order the die but order a spare undersized mandrel. Lee will take care of the specs after handling your cases and supplied ELD-M.
23 Dec 2016
@ 03:19 am (GMT)

Paul Leverman

Re: 30-378 Wby Mag
Remember as well, that different brass will have different neck thicknesses, or that after sizing by turning or reaming your thicknesses will change. That said, what Nathan suggested as to ordering the three bushings will cover just about all applications.
29 Apr 2017
@ 01:31 pm (GMT)

Mike Owens

Re: 30-378 Wby Mag
Can someone give me some advice from the results I have gathered from my first loads.
All loads were Retumbo powder,Fed 215 primers and Hornady 208g ELF M. 3 shot groups at 100 yards.
102.5g shot 1" group with ES of 9fps MV average 3165
103.0g shot 1/2" group with ES of 16fps MV average 3208
104.0g shot 1" group with ES of 57fps MV average 3221.
No pressure signs with any of these .
Would you work around the lowest ES or the smallest group size.

Cheers Mike
29 Apr 2017
@ 01:45 pm (GMT)

Mike Owens

Re: 30-378 Wby Mag
I missed some details so amended post below.

Can someone give me some advice from the results I have gathered from my first loads.
All loads were Retumbo powder,Fed 215 primers and Hornady 208g ELD- M.
3 shot groups at 100 yards.
102.5g shot 1" group with ES of 9fps MV average 3165
103.0g shot 1/2" group with ES of 16fps MV average 3208
103.5g shot 1.5" group with ES of 56fps MV average 3209
104.0g shot 1" group with ES of 57fps MV average 3221.
No pressure signs with any of these .
Would you work around the lowest ES or the smallest group size.

Cheers Mike[/quote]
29 Apr 2017
@ 02:07 pm (GMT)

Bob Mavin

Re: 30-378 Wby Mag
Hi Mike.
I would shoot those two loads again to see if you get the same results, and go with the most accurate.

Bob
08 May 2017
@ 02:16 am (GMT)

Paul Leverman

Re: 30-378 Wby Mag
Hey Mike - I was just reading through a bunch of the old threads and came across yours. How did you make out? In regards to you last post, it would depend on what your hunting scenario is. If your ranges are short (less than 200m), I would go group size. If you want to reach out a ways, see what Nathan says about ES vs. ACCURACY. Most of my hunters are around an inch for five shots, but very rarely do I shoot over 100m, with most shots around 60 -70m, so a very acceptable accuracy level. With an ES of 57fps, I wouldn't go too far out. Have you tried different seating depths with the two lowest ES loads? Or even try a load that is 0.2g up or down from either? It looks like you are real close to ideal, you just need to zero in. Keep us posted.
 

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