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> Shot Placement - 400 - 600 Yards
Shot Placement - 400 - 600 Yards
@ 06:00 am (GMT) |
Frank VallichFirearm: .308 - Cartridge: 168gr Federal Hybrid Hunter with Berger Bullet. Currently striking within a 4 inch radius @ 600 yards.Is the area 3 inches forward of the lungs and 3 inches above the heart the best area to aim small on Whitetail and Mule deer for an ethical quick kill? |
Replies
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@ 04:25 am (GMT) |
Frank VallichRe: Shot Placement - 400 - 600 YardsHi Scott!Thanks for the correction on the photo Link! Cheers![b] |
@ 08:55 am (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Shot Placement - 400 - 600 Yards
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@ 09:13 am (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Shot Placement - 400 - 600 YardsFrank, I wanted to learn how to post pictures on here, so I followed Nathan’s instructions and posted your photo. Thanks for going to the trouble of cutting a bullet in half and photographing it. Since there is no image in Nathan’s book of a halved Berger Classic Hunter, a/k/a Hybrid Hunter, I though it might be of interest to folk. |
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@ 09:52 am (GMT) |
Frank VallichRe: Shot Placement - 400 - 600 YardsThanks to you Scott! I'm not certain though the H H is aka the Classic hunter. |
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@ 10:18 am (GMT) |
Frank VallichRe: Shot Placement - 400 - 600 YardsExpand on my last comment. I'm of the belief the copper jacket has been improved.Thanks again for your time on this item. Cheers Eh![b] |
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@ 11:23 am (GMT) |
Frank VallichRe: Shot Placement - 400 - 600 YardsA correction of my wording. A corporation won't rebrand a product. Such as the Ford F150. A corporation will improve the product. So the Classic hunter has been in production for a number of years. Along comes a credible individual "Nathan" and states the limitations of an existing product. Your head would be in the sand not to accept a critique, test and improve, if necessary your "Classic" product.Now to increase your sales volume approaching Federal and stating the bullet has accuracy and explosive qualities. Not public knowledge and never admitting there existed a slight drawback to the "Classic". Is it possible that this degree of intelligence exists at the corporate level? I say yes. I witnessed in a major corporation the ruthlessness of the man at the top. Clever! Quick! The number of yes men that fell on his sword were many. Just my thoughts though. |
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@ 01:49 pm (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Shot Placement - 400 - 600 YardsFrank. Berger uses the terms “classic hunter” and “hybrid hunter” interchangeably on their website. It’s all marketing. |
@ 01:33 pm (GMT) |
David LenziRe: Shot Placement - 400 - 600 YardsFor your consideration while you're dredging the internet for information:https://le.vistaoutdoor.com/ https://le.vistaoutdoor.com/ammunition/federal/rifle/default.aspx https://www.hornadyle.com/rifle-ammunition/168-gr-eld-match-tap-precision#!/ While Sierra is pretty up front about their lawyers' view on the TMK, that Federal loads it in their LE ammo for optimal "open air" terminal performance tells a story of its own. Similarly, Hornady loads the 168 ELD-M in the "Red" TAP line. You might consider the Hornady Superformance Match 168 ELD-M for factory ammo. If you're gonna hand load, the 175 TMK or 178 ELD-M will generally boast better performance in the wind (only about a .1 mil off the 195 TMK). |
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@ 03:26 am (GMT) |
Frank VallichRe: Shot Placement - 400 - 600 YardsDavid, thanks for the information. Not certain if I could purchase Law Enforcement cartridges in Canada but nothing ventured nothing gained Eh! Haha.While they are recognized around the world for record-setting accuracy, MatchKing® and Tipped MatchKing® bullets are not recommended for most hunting applications. One cartridge that I am attempting to purchase is the 168 gr. 308 Win AccuBond Long Range Trophy Grade by Nosler. Slightly higher Velocity and Energy values. No stock available. Reality though, of the rifle, is the Berger is most accurate. Most likely due to their design. At 500 yards and now I've pushed to the 600 yard accuracy (SHOT PLACEMENT) is the most important criteria. Yes I'm pushing the limit of the .308 Win. cartridge. Do I want a magnum rifle? NO! I'm able bodied to track a wounded ungulate. Will this ever occur? Not losing sleep over the thought. I have a quad parked near my hide. The bush in the area is not a solid wall of trees and the animal trails are all too noticeable. Probably a road hunter would notice them if they ever drove off the roads and ventured into the bush areas. Archery season is currently open and a few pictures are posted of ELK being taken by the bowmen. I'm out on Tuesday to survey an area. Drought conditions this year will allow deeper penetration into woodland. On returning to home I will be stopping to target water filled two litre jugs at the abandoned oil lease road that serves as my TARGET RANGE. I do enjoy the competitive aspect of shooting long range and am more than pleased with the price of .308 cartridges. Magnum loads are expensive. Cheers! |
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@ 01:19 pm (GMT) |
Frank VallichRe: Shot Placement - 400 - 600 YardsTargets are recycled 2 litre soy jugs filled with lake water. Just for the record. |
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@ 12:23 pm (GMT) |
David LenziRe: Shot Placement - 400 - 600 YardsThe .308 does have some wonderful economy... I've got a smith putting together my first as I type, hope to see it after I return from a work related sojourn.A good many of us would be hard pressed to wear a .308 out, such is the usable barrel life. Those in pursuit of such can, if they choose, resort to ammo that even in this day and age can be had for $.50 a shot (less than many other choices and only a smidge more than .223 in many cases). Alternatively, there's something suited for everything from matches to hunting. The recoil is tolerable, but demands good form. The ballistics are adequate for a great number of things, but demand the shooter know their business. A rifle so chambered can't help but make a shooter better if they are attentive. |
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@ 12:37 pm (GMT) |
David LenziRe: Shot Placement - 400 - 600 YardsTo answer your original question, I'd opt for a 168/175 TMK or ELD-M for the game and the distance in your original question. I put it behind the shoulder - essentially using an archery point of aim. If you're inside a four inch circle, you're working with accuracy and precision comparable to many bow hunters, come to think of it.Of the two, I might be more inclined to the ELD-M. John Lazzeroni observed back in the 90s (when he was hunting with match bullets before it was cool), that bullet performance was irrelevant if you couldn't hit your target. We're lucky to have an abundance of choices capable of hitting the target and performing well when they arrive. Reference @ 600 yds (drop in, drop mil, drift in, drift mil, speed) 150 SST SF @ 3000 fps -61.2 -2.8 29.9 1.4 1825.9 168 ELD-M SF @ 2840 fps -63.5 -2.9 24.6 1.1 1909.4 168 TMK @ 2650 fps -76.1 -3.5 26.7 1.2 1770.0 195 TMK @ 2400 fos -93.9 -4.3 26.6 1.2 1663.8 |
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@ 02:42 am (GMT) |
Frank VallichRe: Shot Placement - 400 - 600 Yards.308 has the potential for rewarding a competitive spirit. Agreed upon the strict observance of form after determining if the rifle is accurate. Glass and triggering (the mechanical performance of the trigger and the parallax of the glass with consistent cheek weld being in the same location) aid in the accuracy. Acceptance of restricting the bullet weight choices to the twist rate of the barrel reduces the frustration of understanding "Is it me or the rifle".The dynamics of adrenalin control is paramount. The ability to reduce the pulse while looking through the glass and time that moment when the image is stable, squeeze the trigger and maintain control while observing the down range strike. Putting it all together for that microsecond of control for down range performance. Your .308 will be a friend and foe and totally dependent upon your state of mind and your physical performance. Enjoy! |
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