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270win /150 sst

22 Oct 2012
@ 09:02 am (GMT)

Trevor Wilkes

Gday Nathan,
Took a trip to the range to test some handloads today as per usual always windy but got to shoot from 51gr to 52.6gr of 2209 with some tight groups in there have to try the rest another day.
I had made up some 150s with 2213sc to do a ladder test but that wasnt working out with the weather so thought I would just get some velocity readings and try my new magneto chrony.
The last reading I got was with 58.5gr at 2886 fps which is getting close to your recommended 2900fps no pressure sighns at that so was wanting to ask how far could I go with the 2213sc,58.5gr is only 1gr over listed max so I assume there is room to go.
When working up over max with the 130gr noslers the tikka when fired went off with a crack and a horrible resinating vibration through the stock and action not a nice feeling but with the 2213sc when fired there is just a nice solid thud.
Im going to take note with the 150s and 2209 when I start to get a few grains over max and see if this happens again shall let you know how it goes.

Cheers Trevor.

Replies

22 Oct 2012
@ 06:08 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: 270win /150 sst
Just keep reading the brass Trevor. I should not really advise going over max online. Just watch your brass, thats the key.

Most 22" barreled rifles will hit safe maximum at 2950fps with better accuracy and better case life at around 2920fps. Occasionally, a short throated rifle will hit max at 2800-2850fps.

The difference in harmonic resonating you perceived was due to the difference in pressure waves. The 2209 load would have started with a high pressure wave for several inches, the wave gradually subsiding down the length of the barrel, still yielding acceleration energy at 22" but without the initial pressure that occurred at or near the chamber. With 2213sc, the pressure wave is longer and more gradual.

17 Sep 2015
@ 06:44 pm (GMT)

Paul Yates

Re: 270win /150 sst
Sorry to revive an old thread. I, too, am working on developing a load for .270win with the 150gr. SST.

Based on the reloading data from various sources, I have decided to see what I can do with IMR-7828. I will begin with some reasonable loads and work up from there.

My target, of course, is the recommended 2900fps. I am aware that getting that out of a 22" barrel will require me to be at or above max pressure, and I am not particularly confident about doing so.

At listed max pressures, it seems I can expect about 2780fps. Should I just be happy with that?

I'm shooting a Savage 111, BTW.
17 Sep 2015
@ 10:14 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: 270win /150 sst
Hi Paul, 7828 is a bit too slow for my liking.

You could try working with my reloading book. The step by step approach may help give you the confidence you need to work up full power loads.

I remember Grant (posts as G-dog) felt a bit the same way when he started exploring increased loads for the .270. Must be about a year on now and he is doing fine and has a lot more experience under his belt. He knows what his .270 Win is capable of and so forth.
21 Sep 2015
@ 04:21 pm (GMT)

Paul Yates

Re: 270win /150 sst
Hi Nathan,

Thanks so much for your reply. I should also take time now to thank you for such an amazing site!

I had already worked up a few incremental loads as planned, so I went to the range yesterday and did some testing. Here's what I tested.

Brass: Winchester
Primer: Fed210
Powder: IMR7828

4 rounds @ 55gr
4 rounds @ 56gr
4 rounds @ 57gr (listed as max, or very near max in the majority of load data)
2 rounds @ 57.5gr (to see if there would be signs of over-pressure)

The 55gr load was pretty good; about an inch group at 100y. The 56gr load opened up to about 2" (could have been my fault), but then I shot a 0.548" group with the 57gr load.

When I shot the 2 57.5gr loads, I did not try to pattern them at all. I was mostly just seeing where I was with pressure. The primers are certainly pretty flat from those two rounds, and the recoil had a noticeably sharp "resonance" that felt wrong to me. Normally I only feel recoil in my shoulder. With those two rounds, I felt it "ring" through my hands and cheek. Maybe I was imagining this, but it sure felt real to me.

I am very pleased with the 57gr load. It is very accurate and it is safe. I don't have a chrony, but I am thinking it is probably just below 2800 fps out of my 22" barrel.

I should note that the furthest range that I am comfortable shooting game is ~300 yards. Typically, it is more like 30-200y, and typically it is mule deer. The practical side of me figures the extra 100fps isn't worth chasing (at this point).
21 Sep 2015
@ 10:16 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: 270win /150 sst
Very strange. It should be going around 2750fps.

Yes, the SST will work just fine at this velocity. Still, it would have been nice to get to the bottom of this. generally speaking, you cannot fit enough of this powder in the case to cause problems. The burn rate is simply too slow. Furthermore, the Savage rifles are not normally of tight dimensions. However, seeing as I cannot be there to check the rifle and loads over, it is best to play it extra safe.

Perhaps one day you could email macro photos of the primers to me.
22 Sep 2015
@ 03:16 pm (GMT)

Paul Yates

Re: 270win /150 sst
Hi Nathan,

I too found it strange that 57gr was OK and then 57.5gr rattled my cage so much. I compared the primers again last night and actually I can't see much difference between the 57gr and 57.5gr loads. The lighter loads show more "shoulder" on the primers. I can take photos some time and send them. Perhaps the issue was a combination of my shoulder getting tender near the end of my session, plus the psychological aspects of going beyond what most data lists as "max". I should probably try them again at the start of a fresh session. I should also note that I am very much used to shooting 130gr bullets from this gun - this is my first time shooting 150s.
23 Sep 2015
@ 05:59 am (GMT)

Mike Davis

Re: 270win /150 sst
mate I hear you...load and clearly
I had shunned using 150s in my win lightweight .270 for years as I developed a wicked flinch early on using them,changed to 130s big fat recoil pad and better trigger fixed that issue.
now with suppressor the old girl is a pussy cat to shoot with any load.
150s 160s and 170s I had no issue using on game but didnt like punching paper with them at all.
Limbsaver recoil pads have great reputation so may well be worth the $$$$$
even without the can I would shoot 150+ for bush loads as the extra weight gave me confidence when a deer is in the shrubbery .
my point being there IS a difference in recoil between 130s and 150s, heck a 110grn has hardly ant shove at all.
wear a coat,get yourself really comfortable and hold that forend tightly and the recoil will feel alot less.
23 Sep 2015
@ 05:37 pm (GMT)

Paul Yates

Re: 270win /150 sst
Hi Mike,

I was just looking at the Limbsavers the other day. The recoil "pad" on my Savage 111 synthetic stock is nearly like plastic, it is so hard. Suppressors are illegal here, however muzzle brakes are not. I don't think I really need one if I get a Limbsaver (or similar).

Cheers,

Paul
24 Sep 2015
@ 07:47 am (GMT)

Mike Davis

Re: 270win /150 sst
that is so true..the limbsavers are way better than the stupid ones rifles come out with, mine had 1cm thin hard red rubber pad, now got a bisley shotgun pad and that has done job for me for 20ish years, limbsaver should tame yours down nicely and a set of ear plugs and/or muffs will do the rest.
as for muzzle brakes...they give me the screaming poohs
if you kept it in your day bag and fitted it after ear protection it would be ok, but having been around a few rifles fired with them and browning boss system...yea nah not my cuppa tea at all. just too much, and if you had stag jump up in front of you with it fitted you WOULD fire....hearing is too precious to risk like that.
27 Sep 2015
@ 08:36 pm (GMT)

Scott Haenel

Re: 270win /150 sst
I just finished testing some 150/SST using 58gr of 7828SSC.

I had previously worked my way up from 54gr thru 57.5gr with no issues.

I was able to string 5 shots into a .920" group, with 1 called flyer. I didn't have any signs of over pressure, but I took a pounding in the process. This was off the bench W/O sand bags. I hope to close this grouping up next time, I'll make sure to take the sandbags with me.

I had these rounds set to 3.330" measured caliper length, approximately .020 off the lands of my Ruger M77.

28 Sep 2015
@ 04:50 pm (GMT)

Paul Yates

Re: 270win /150 sst
Thanks for reporting your results, Scott!

I loaded up a bunch more rounds at 57gr with the intention of zeroing my scope on my next trip to the range. I also loaded 2 rounds at 58gr and thought I might try them first (rather than after I have taken a beating) and see id they feel "off" like the 57.5gr rounds did. I suspect now that it was more of a physical and psychological issue, than an issue with actual over-pressure. The recoil certainly is a bit beyond my comfort zone (as discussed, I have a plan for that).

My C.O.A.L. is quite long as well, although I cannot recall the exact measurement right now. I will measure later again. Thanks for reporting your C.O.A.L.
28 Sep 2015
@ 09:51 pm (GMT)

Scott Haenel

Re: 270win /150 sst
Paul

This is where I'm headed with the 150/SST

This is from IMR released DATA
DISCLAIMER
"Velocity and pressure readings represent average values
obtained under controlled conditions. The values shown may vary substantially with the components and the reloading techniques employed.
We suggest the charge weights shown be reduced initially by 10% to
compensate for possible variations from the published data. The loads
may then be increased as pressure indications permit."

.270 WINCHESTER
REM. CASE
REM. 9 1/2 PR
REM. 150 GR. SPCL (SPCL Solf Point “Core-Lokt”)

.277" DIA.
24" BBL.
3.250" C.O.L.

Powder: IMR 7828
Max Load: 59.0 Compressed
FPS: 2985
Pressure: 51000
28 Sep 2015
@ 11:20 pm (GMT)

Paul Yates

Re: 270win /150 sst
Thanks Scott,

I have seen 59.0C listed as a max, in the Lee data, IIRC.

I have many different sources of load data. One thing I have realized is, there is an incredible range of listed "max loads" for this powder and 150gr .270 Win projectiles.

I will post a summary of all the different load data later... perhaps then you'll see why I have been cautious so far.
29 Sep 2015
@ 12:06 am (GMT)

Scott Haenel

Re: 270win /150 sst
I hear that ....

I have data here listing 60 grains as a max.


I was pretty happy with my 58 grain load. Using the SSC powder makes a huge difference in the "compressed" load, plus I'm able to set my length longer than most which helps.
29 Sep 2015
@ 05:35 am (GMT)

Mike Davis

Re: 270win /150 sst
it gets worse when you look at data for hodgdon powder and use ADI equivalent like AR2213sc....... the H data goes 1-2 grns higher/heavier
go figure, its the same powder made in same place.......
29 Sep 2015
@ 03:51 pm (GMT)

Paul Yates

Re: 270win /150 sst
So here is the data that I was able to dig up. By no means an exhaustive list, but enough to make me pause:

Lyman- Min: 51.5 -- Max: 57

Speer- Min: 54 -- Max:58

IMR/Hodgdon*- Min: 51.2 -- Max: 56.8

Hornady- Min: 51.2 -- Max: 56.3

Nosler- Min: 53.5 -- Max: 57.5

Lee- Min: 52.9 -- Max: 59 (C)

* from the Hodgdon online database

All of the above data was based on 150gr cup-and-core bullets (i.e. not copper)

29 Sep 2015
@ 05:03 pm (GMT)

Paul Yates

Re: 270win /150 sst
I should also note that some (but not all) of the loads listed above show magnum primers being used. I can look them up again and post those details if anyone is interested.

From my basic/limited knowledge, magnum primers can increase internal pressures considerably. For now, i am sticking with standard large rifle primers. Currently, Federal 210.

I should also acknowledge that different cases have different capacities and this can affect pressure. I used all Winchester brass for my earlier load development, but this time around I loaded up my 57gr loads with the following brass: Winchester, Remington, Barnes and Federal. I loaded 4 of each and plan to see how much difference the brass makes.
30 Sep 2015
@ 04:55 pm (GMT)

Paul Yates

Re: 270win /150 sst
Sorry to be so chatty, but I thought I would report my C.O.A.L. measurements (performed with the 150gr SST, of course):

Max COAL for my rifle (touching lands): 3.398"

COAL of my test loads: 3.312"

"Jump": 0.086"

So it appears that I have some room to work with. However, when I shake the 58gr loads I can still hear the powder moving around in there.

Still really love the group I got with the 57gr load...
30 Sep 2015
@ 09:47 pm (GMT)

Scott Haenel

Re: 270win /150 sst
Quote:
Sorry to be so chatty, but I thought I would report my C.O.A.L. measurements (performed with the 150gr SST, of course):

Max COAL for my rifle (touching lands): 3.398"

COAL of my test loads: 3.312"

"Jump": 0.086"

So it appears that I have some room to work with. However, when I shake the 58gr loads I can still hear the powder moving around in there.

Still really love the group I got with the 57gr load...


If you change to the SSC powder you'll have a lot more room....
01 Oct 2015
@ 01:20 am (GMT)

john feyereisn

Re: 270win /150 sst
I have shot some loads in my 270 with 150 nosler ballistic tips with imr 7828 ssc. I had good groups at and just above published max data.
01 Oct 2015
@ 01:28 am (GMT)

john feyereisn

Re: 270win /150 sst
One other thing i learned about dealing with recoil shooting off a bench was to lower your chair to sit upright, i find often that benches are to low and chairs too high and you end up leaning forward into the rifle absorbing the recoil rather than your spine and torso flexing. I learned this reading "The accurate rifle" by warren paige, a very old book, some of the information and techniqes are antiquated or outdated, but i found it interesting and picked up a few other tidbits of info as well
01 Oct 2015
@ 07:20 am (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: 270win /150 sst
this is making interesting reading one comment ill make thou is try to load for accuracy not just velocity. if you like group you get, try .5 grain on either side just to check if you can get better.
if you read nathans cartridge book he talks about velocity cut of point rather then a range as such, find a nice accurate load that your comfortable shooting and understand the limitations.
01 Oct 2015
@ 03:41 pm (GMT)

Paul Yates

Re: 270win /150 sst
Scott, next jug I buy will be the SSC. Thanks.

Thomas, you make a very good point.

This is why I have re-iterated a couple of times how much I like the 57gr load. Perhaps it was accidental, but the fact that I shot nearly 0.5 MOA 4-shot group with the 57gr load seems to indicate that I've hit a sweet spot. I honestly do not think my rifle can do any better (standard synthetic Savage stock, not reinforced or bedded (yet)).

However, Nathan's words on the .270win page of the knowledge base keep nagging at me. 2900fps... 2900fps.

Nathan, it's not your fault; I'm just a bit obsessive, is all.

I think at least for the remainder of this hunting season, I am just going to zero my scope with the 57gr load and use them to take some animals. At some point it all has to come back to just getting out there and putting some meat in the freezer.
01 Oct 2015
@ 05:38 pm (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: 270win /150 sst
hi paul
i have yet to work up loads for my tikka 270 with sst's but with 150gr interlocks and ar2209 i found a sweet spot at just over 2800fps.

i would go retest 57gr again also load .1 or .2 on either side. if you get better groups on one side of it retest it.
once you got a decent load sorted it means when you stabilize and bed it you can check it with same load (you might have to change load later but it will give you indication if your bedding is alright)

what is the distance your hunting to?
01 Oct 2015
@ 07:54 pm (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: 270win /150 sst
One thing I forgot to mention as it comes up from time to time.
If your using new brass your capacity will be less with the same pressure so you will loose some velocity.
Once fired brass with only neck sizing will need to have the powder charge upped to be in same pressure sweet spot which will give you more velocity.
 

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