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> .303 Wildcat or conversion for an Enfield P14 Action
.303 Wildcat or conversion for an Enfield P14 Action
@ 09:35 pm (GMT) |
Ben GradyHi GuysI have just purchased a P14 rifle with an unloved barrel. After a successful new build of my 25-06 on a P17 action. I am interested in a new build with the P14. So I am after opinions of what would be a good conversion. I could just re-barrel it and ream it to a .303 Epps improved. Easy to do and easy to fire form and better ballistics that the 303. I already have a 25-303 and the 25-06 so something a bit different from the 25cals would be nice. My gunsmith has a P14 300 winmag that is super accurate, so that is a possibility. (He also has the reamer). What is the 7mm Practicle COAL compared to the 300win mag? I welcome any ideas or thoughts. |
Replies
@ 11:17 pm (GMT) |
Bob MavinRe: .303 Wildcat or conversion for an Enfield P14 ActionGood :))That's why I hunt mostly, alone. I avoid hunt camps like the plague. |
@ 09:30 am (GMT) |
Michael RaynerRe: .303 Wildcat or conversion for an Enfield P14 ActionInspired me to pull the rifle out and try some more loads,174 Hornady 2696 fps with Re17 150 Sierra 2904 fps with Re17 125 Sierra 3068 fps with Re 17 All these loads are below 53,000 psi according to quick load. Pretty happy with these figures from 22 inch barrel. No signs of pressure either or splits |
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@ 07:04 pm (GMT) |
Ben GradyRe: .303 Wildcat or conversion for an Enfield P14 ActionHey do any of you guys have a P14 Safety Lever or know where I might be able to get one? |
@ 07:07 pm (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: .303 Wildcat or conversion for an Enfield P14 ActionBen- are you still looking for a safety lever? |
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@ 06:04 pm (GMT) |
Ben GradyRe: .303 Wildcat or conversion for an Enfield P14 ActionQuote: Ben- are you still looking for a safety lever?
Hi Paul Thanks, but I managed to get one. |
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@ 05:42 am (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: .303 Wildcat or conversion for an Enfield P14 ActionThat's good. I was going to get one for you on spec, but forgot to include it on my import permit. Just as well now. Glad you found one. |
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@ 01:17 am (GMT) |
Ben GradyRe: .303 Wildcat or conversion for an Enfield P14 ActionO.K guys. so I am looking at the .303 Epps Improved for my p14 action.Now what is the optimal barrel length and contour. I want this rifle to be carried up and down hills for any overnight hunting. I have my heavy 25-06 for vehicle hunting (park up and walk) day trips. So I would like a lighter rifle to take for that "one shot" at a deer hunt. So how short can I go to get the most out of the powder etc. I think the powder capacity will be similar to a .308 and I have read the .308 can have a very short barrel without losing much velocity?. The action weighs what it weighs so how else can I cut back some weight? I am not after a super lite rifle, just a nice comfortable set up. |
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@ 01:36 am (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: .303 Wildcat or conversion for an Enfield P14 ActionHey Ben - when I weighed my action, it came in around 3#. Pretty close to yours? A #2 Benchmark barrel (.575" muzzle, finished at 26", sporter contour) weighs in at 3#. Plus 2#(?) for a stock and 1# for a scope.....still a 9# rifle. Not bad, steady for sure if properly balanced and you have a good sling. I prefer something with a little bit of weight so a nine or ten pounder is good for me, others may not agree. |
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@ 06:02 am (GMT) |
Michael RaynerRe: .303 Wildcat or conversion for an Enfield P14 ActionI went with a 22 inch in the original barrel profile so it would be a little stiffer than original 25 inch and I didn't have to touch the stock, simples |
@ 08:24 am (GMT) |
Thomas KitchenRe: .303 Wildcat or conversion for an Enfield P14 Actionmy thoughts are a number 3 at 22 inches |
@ 08:41 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: .303 Wildcat or conversion for an Enfield P14 ActionHi Ben, this cartridge is not quite like the .308. Where the .308 makes good use of fast burn rates from a short barrel, yours will have a lot more powder space. It will do its best work with 2208 and 2209 with heavy bullets and needs a 24" barrel or longer to make use of these powders. So if you want to go short, consider 24" as the minimum for generating high velocities.Thomas, your 22" approach can be used with some success (e.g 7mm Rem Mag docked to 20" / 2900fps with a 162gr bullet). It all depends on goals. Some folk deliberately use extra power at one end so they can dock at the other end. The trouble is (as you already know but for the benefit of others), the goal with these rifles is normally to suppress and this can result in a lot of unburnt powder resting in the suppressor. In the other extreme as Michael stated, we need to try and avoid excessive whip by going too long and too thin. There are a few 26-27" welter weights out there that simply don't shoot straight, though they can maintain a cold bore zero. Another factor is that that the SST is hard to come by now (see 303 & 8mm SST post) leaving not a great many bullets to choose from. If the rifle is to be used on the tops, it will be best served with the 174gr SMK with trimmed meplat. This will have an impact velocity limit of around 1800fps and put simply, the faster it is driven, the better it will work and the more Ben can trim the meplat without losing effective range. If you want to keep the weight down, opt for a #3 True-flite docked at 24". You can always dock further later. If the rifle is to be suppressed then you might want to go to 22" but I would not be keen on going any shorter. If you want to be able to use .30 cal bullets, then you need to look into a .30-303 Epps custom reamer and .30 cal barrel. |
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@ 06:11 am (GMT) |
Michael RaynerRe: .303 Wildcat or conversion for an Enfield P14 ActionRunning some numbers through quick load and using the Optimum Barrel Timing nodes is quite surprising. Ideally if you can get it Reloder 17 rules, it would well be worth your while. These speeds are not the fastest but in theory will be around your best accuracy as this is when the vibration wave reaches the end of barrel. Pressures not exceeding 60,000psi either with a 174 gr20inch 2208 2690fps 2209 2570fps Re17 2737fps 22inch 2208 2682fps 2209 2690fps Re17 2733fps 23 inch 2209 2684fps Re17 2725fps 24inch 2208 2670fps 2209 2675fps Re17 2728fps 25 inch 2209 2670fps Re17 2931fps able to reach the next node at 60000 psi 26 inch 2209 2882fps Re17 2925fps The longer the barrel the more peak speed you can attain and you may find another spot above these where it will group nicely for hunting as well. Also you use less powder to go the same speed and more flexible with different bullet weights. If you got a longer barrel you can always shorten it if need be later on 2730 Fps will get you to 500 yards doing 1800, 600 yards if you start at 2930 |
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@ 07:37 am (GMT) |
Ben GradyRe: .303 Wildcat or conversion for an Enfield P14 ActionThanks MichaelI have AR2208 and AR2209. I also have AR2217 which works really well in my 25-06 with a 25"barrel. How do you think 2217 would work? |
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@ 08:24 am (GMT) |
Michael RaynerRe: .303 Wildcat or conversion for an Enfield P14 ActionDo you have any chrono readings for 2217&2208 preferably a medium charge and a heavy charge. I have 2217 myself for my 7mm rem mag but haven't got to load it yet. I think 2217 maybe a bit slow basically fill the case before you get any real speed. 2208 is probably running 50fps slower than QL says but I've never used it before but I could be wrong |
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@ 06:51 pm (GMT) |
Ben GradyRe: .303 Wildcat or conversion for an Enfield P14 ActionHey Michael or others.Is there a huge change in point of impact between factory 303 ammo and your hand loads for the 303 Mad in the same bullet weight? It would be good to be able to leave the scope set up for the 303 Epps but still close enough for the 303 factory ammo, out to 200 yards. Then I could fire form my cases while shooting goats 0-200 yards. Point of impact would have to be close though to hit the goats vitals. |
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@ 12:45 am (GMT) |
Michael RaynerRe: .303 Wildcat or conversion for an Enfield P14 ActionSorry can't remember, you were the reason I pulled it back out of the safe in the first place LOL. One of the reasons I swapped to an improved design was the very slow factory velocities 2250-2350fps for a 180gr and 2500-2600 for 150gr depending on brand, felt I was shooting a 30-30. The range is probably the best place to fire form cases so you don't lose any. You could probably fire form 3-4 boxes easily in a day. I remember it was very accurate with Remington 180gr grouping consistantly around 3/4 inch at 100yards but they were the slowest. Any scope worth its salt should be able to track repeatedly a little bit, you'll need something half decent with the extra recoil the Epps will produce at full power anyway. Roughly a 308 win is 55gr H2O capacity, 303 Brit is 54gr, Epps is 63gr and a 30-06 is 68gr from memory (I'm at 66).Also I found QL reckons 2206h should work well in 22 inch barrel as well (but not in a 24 inch), if I can't find Re17 I might give that a try as it will be a fair bit cheaper too |
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@ 06:05 pm (GMT) |
Ben GradyRe: .303 Wildcat or conversion for an Enfield P14 ActionHey MichaelDo you want to sell your 303 Epps dies? If you can find them. This would save me having to fire form each case. Times precious and I would rather be hunting than fire forming brass. Thats why I asked if POImpact would be close enough for close hunting. Normally I recover all my brass while hunting, only the odd case disappears. But Epps dies would be awesome. Having to fire form has me thinking of maybe a different caliber. |
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@ 07:50 pm (GMT) |
Michael RaynerRe: .303 Wildcat or conversion for an Enfield P14 ActionYou have to fire form each case you can't get away from that step. I'm pretty sure the Simplex dies are a special order 2 die set, neck size die and bullet seat die that cost me $120 + post from memory, could probably do $60 AUD+post if I can find them. I ended up using a combination of a 45-70 die for decapping and a 308 win die to neck-size with a brass collet that I slide over the case first. I think bullet seating is done by a 308 die as well and I've had to anneal the necks once because I felt they was hardening. Now I'm going to probably be trimming bullet meplats in the future, mad I tells yaYou sure you don't want a 30-06 bullet choices are plenty, performance window is greater |
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@ 08:09 pm (GMT) |
Ben GradyRe: .303 Wildcat or conversion for an Enfield P14 ActionYeah 30 06 I know Michael, but why did you do the 303 Mad?I kind of like the idea of the 303. History wise they are quite important to New Zealand. And I think a bit underdone in popularity in modern times. I might re-look at the 300 winmag option as my gunsmith has already converted his P14 to one. Then I can buy factory ammo if required and reload my own. No fire forming required. Hmmm what to do? |
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@ 08:35 pm (GMT) |
Thomas KitchenRe: .303 Wildcat or conversion for an Enfield P14 ActionHi Ben.This has been interesting reading. Fire forming just means more trigger time and more practice so wouldn't stress about it The 30.06 would need a different bolt face. The magnums are a good way to go just watch your mag length. Have you looked into using 444 marlin as your parent case you could neck it down to 308 or 7mm giving you a wide range of projectiles. There is a company that does few wild cats on the 444marlin maybe ICL you'll have to check feeding as they design them for single shot rifles |
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@ 09:05 pm (GMT) |
Ben GradyRe: .303 Wildcat or conversion for an Enfield P14 ActionThanks ThomasThe problem is that in Blenheim there is no shooting range open to the public or members. The deer stalkers have use of a private range but you can only use it when there is an organised shoot. I do have access to a 100m homemade range but that is an hours drive away. So a bit of a pain for sorting out loads. I have been given permission to sight in rifles at my hunting block but it is not a big block and all animals will scamper. So what are my choice of magnums? I don't know much about them. |
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@ 09:48 pm (GMT) |
Thomas KitchenRe: .303 Wildcat or conversion for an Enfield P14 ActionSo the belted magnums based on the 375 Holland and Holland cases would work with your bolt face.Think it starts around 264 win mag and goes all the way to 458 win mag. It includes the 7mm rem mag, 300 win mag plus the weatherby magnums. The 308 Norma Magnum and 358 Norma magnum are included in these. The 450 marlin is a short version on the same case. Don't know how the win short mag (wsm) would feed as these are based on a fatter case. It might be time to contact the guru privately and talk to him about a simple caliber option. Maybe I have been in auckland to long (took me 2 hours to get to my job site this morning) but I would happily drive an hour to have use of a private range. |
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@ 09:53 pm (GMT) |
Michael RaynerRe: .303 Wildcat or conversion for an Enfield P14 ActionCuriosity and ego hahah, when I found it too difficult to get an Epps reamer decided I'd build my own, with something else. Thought the case dimensions were close enough Epps dies would work, was wrong. Wasn't going to let it beat me though so experimented with different things to get it to work. Once I got it to work recoil became a bit to much, instead of bolting a good recoil pad on a plastic stock thought I'd buy a boyds stock and put it on that, ordered my stock 7 January 15 still haven't got it.Starting with what do you want the rifle for and go from there, you mentioned you want a reasonably light weight rifle you can carry all day. Where and what are you hunting and what ranges, I'm sure you can work it out and have a rifle " fit for purpose". |
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@ 10:00 pm (GMT) |
Michael RaynerRe: .303 Wildcat or conversion for an Enfield P14 ActionMy vote would be for the 7mm rem mag |
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@ 10:49 pm (GMT) |
Thomas KitchenRe: .303 Wildcat or conversion for an Enfield P14 ActionI agree with Michael the 7mm rem mag stands out as best option unless your going after wapitI or thar |
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