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6.8 SPC

20 Aug 2015
@ 08:33 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

I had an email from a reader today, remarking on the merits of the 6.8. Below is my reply. To my readers who do not have first hand experience with military ball ammo, please trust me in this, there is so much rubbish pushed on to people now.

....................

Hi ..., I must be up around 11,000 to 12,000 head of game now. But then I am told that I tend to understate these figures. I have taken atleast 1000 head of game with military rifles and FMJ ammo. There are so many combos and varieties of ammo I have used now that I have lost count but I can mention some basic cartridge designs here including the 5.56, 6.5, 7x57, 7.62x39, .30 Carbine, 7.62 Nato, .303 Brit and the 7.62x54, plus hand gun calibers.

From these experiences, I can tell you that designing a low velocity .270 cal assault cartridge is bollocks. If you have ever shot an animal in close with the 7.6x39 cartridge and FMJ ammo where energy is high yet performance is still relatively useless, you will know just what I mean.

Projectile design is always the key factor, not paper figures. This really comes down to money and marketing. It's always the way these days- follow the money.

I do not want to see any of my readers caught out thinking that the 6.8 is the answer to their ills because with FMJ ammo, no matter how slick the BC and energy, it all means nothing if it just pin holes through. Actually, the higher the more inherently stable the bullet is in flight, the worse it is on target with regards to wounding, lacking the ability to initiate nervous trauma. There is so much to this, more than I can cover in one email sorry.

I get tired of these so called military experts trotting out the same old rubbish without really having a deep understanding of terminal ballistics, contrary to what the general public might think.

As for our own military, we are steadily going back to 7.62 / .308 using a decent projectile design that will blow the heads clean off these f-wits that are now causing trouble in the middle east.

6.8- follow the money.

.300 Blackout- follow the money.

Cheers, Nathan.

Replies

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15 Sep 2015
@ 11:44 pm (GMT)

A vilavella

Re: 6.8 SPC
BTW sorry about the long reply and a bit the departure from the caliber in question. I hope I am not disrupting the flow.

Also the way I arrived at the 9mmx37mm for the carbine was by first looking at what kind of mail I wanted delivered and what speeds taking the 35 Remington and 368w as reference points. Then I look at the options that I had. I actually started with the 308 case baseline and a short chambered hoosier version but then I decided on the 7.6x39 casing due to good bolts now being available and being able to use magazines full stack. So all work was done using available parts and with easy maintenance in mind.
Also brass preparation is easier.

Thanks.

16 Sep 2015
@ 06:03 am (GMT)

Mike Davis

Re: 6.8 SPC
sort of the first Nathan...using a 7.62x39mm in the bush and .223 at times too. the CHEAP bit comes into play with me LOL
but range is kept short and I play % cricket if shot isnt on I dont take it.
16 Sep 2015
@ 06:27 am (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: 6.8 SPC
second one more my motto is "plan for the worse hope for the best" always handy to have bit of velocity spare.

i do wonder if the 7.62x39 and 223 ammo wasn't so cheap how many kiwi's would use them, specially the 7.62x39 the humble 303 does everything it can do plus more
16 Sep 2015
@ 07:03 am (GMT)

Mike Davis

Re: 6.8 SPC
ok clarification needed
both rifles were bought to shoot wallabies using cheap ammo
both now hand loaded for, the .223 is fed barnes pills for deer.
the x39mm fed nosler ballistic tips or old school silver tips.
I wont use cheap milserp ammo for deer
16 Sep 2015
@ 07:21 am (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: 6.8 SPC
When you add up petrol, food and time to go into the hills to get meat to feed your family to save $$$. Coming home empty handed from your game of % cricket sucks! Then having to buy crap sausages because all your moneys gone on petrol to get no meat. Is like sucking the farts out of a dead cats arsehole!!! I want to have as much punch in my ammo so that I can confidently drop an animal if its inside the used calibers 1000ft lb limit and conditions are within my skill level? Oh yeah another thing "I HATE CRICKET!" SUCK SUCK SUCK! Meow!
16 Sep 2015
@ 08:49 am (GMT)

Mike Davis

Re: 6.8 SPC
that 125grn ballistic tip keeps the 1000ftlbs to1900ish fps so starting out 2200ish gives me a hundy yards. good for my BUSH gun.
the .223 is worse with 0-100yards in theory but in practice good bullets and good placement is everything, 150-200 is my personal limit with it.
oh and my favourite rifle in the .270 but the others get used as well.
I respect the game I hunt/harvest and % cricket could be replaced with other sayings,I just couldnt find one...
a wise man recently wrote something along lines of " a responsible hunter knows when not to shoot or when a shot is not going to be highly probable of giving one shot kill so doesnt shoot"
I couldnt agree more.
16 Sep 2015
@ 09:17 am (GMT)

Chris Murphy

Re: 6.8 SPC
Well this old chestnut. An old chap once said to me when the subject came up is that it is impossible to over kill an animal but it is very possible to under kill them. So my moto is give them all the gun you can.
16 Sep 2015
@ 03:52 pm (GMT)

Eloy Vilavella

Re: 6.8 SPC
Military FMJs are popular and inexpensive but they should not be used for harvesting game. Even some of the inexpensive soft points advertised for the 7.62x39 should not be used as they always fail to expand. They suck.
FMJ is technology is something of the past. It is being phased out by Armies. It took 100 yeas to figure out that accuracy and precision with the right ammo (Same for ordinances) is far more important than brute force and volume.
For hunting one can always rely on the barnes, accubond, hornady, GS and a few others. Spend a bit or reload and you don't have to worry about what the projectile is going to do.
Of course one could use a winmag or even a 338LM in white tail with a sp or SST bullet but then we will not have much meat left to eat.
IMO the cheap FMJs are great for fun and to produce once fired brass to later be reused.


16 Sep 2015
@ 10:02 pm (GMT)

Martin Taylor

Re: 6.8 SPC
This is an interesting question Nathan!

With my Varminter hat on, fast & flat generally wins the day so energy at range is the big comprimise ie, 204R or the 223 and even the 243w to some degree.

All my other hunting & shooting, (LR & target=high BC), stalking & hunting with he dogs, l go with big slow projectiles, delivering energy with weight rather than velocity.
I don't always run them at their max velocities either, my 9.3mm is well under charged more like 35 Whelen speeds.
l have found that these do a lot less meat damage than the faster options in a given calibre ie, 30-06 125-150gn v's the 180-200.

So l guess l jump into the "older way of thinking" higher energy camp.
16 Sep 2015
@ 11:34 pm (GMT)

Bob Mavin

Re: 6.8 SPC
Hi Martin
I just got back from 4 days hunting. I loaded some 180gn SST in my 30-06 to try. I'm going to stick with the 168gn A-max for most work. The 180 SST's did a lot of meat damage on Fallow. While culling goats I wacked one dead centre while it was running away at about 50m, the 180 SST didn't come out the other end. I should have dug for it but too busy, we had a major problem with blow flies.
After shooting about 50 goats & Fallow with 168 (Z-Max) I haven't recover a projectile yet, even out to 560m on goats. pin hole entry quickly opening to 30mm after only traveling 50mm, maintaining 30mm dia the rest of the way with total penetration every time so far.

For closer hunting & bigger Deer I like my 358 Winchester 225gn @ 2550fps. You can eat the bullet hole on most Deer but hit a big stag that has resistance and then you see bruising!!!
Cheers
Bob
17 Sep 2015
@ 02:10 am (GMT)

Martin Taylor

Re: 6.8 SPC
I haven’t tried the 168 Zmax on many deer Bob as l now run the 9.3 most trips but have head shot animals at close range with no exit. Terrific on goats, foxes etc. running through my 308w and as you have said, bloody impressive in fact! We don’t shoot a lot of Fallow or Reds mainly Sambar.
We also have the 168 Zmax & Interbonds for my sons 06 when he’s ready, Identical projectiles in shape & size just a tougher construction in the Interbond. He currently runs with a mildly loaded 150g interlock to aid in reducing recoil for a junior shooter and it really shows the versatility of the 06.

I tried Barnes and many others in my 06 using the higher speed Idea on the Sambar but always ended up back with the big slow pills. The fellas l hunt with love the 200 & 220 Partitions in their 06’s for bush work. My 9.3mm RN Woodleigh combo does very little bruising compared to most l have tried including 180 partitions in the 06, stops them very quickly with the high shock delivery!!
17 Sep 2015
@ 03:31 am (GMT)

Bob Mavin

Re: 6.8 SPC
I often use 130 Barnes TTS in 30-06 for meat as I have heaps of them.

Woodleigh's are great, on big Samba/Rusa cross I use 225 PP in my 358 win, I also use 225 Sierra GK , I wasn't happy with the Sierra at first as I Usually find the destroyed pill under the skin opp side but it always does the job. I drive my 225's at 2550fps I dropped them back from 2620fps to make the cases last longer but so far I haven't ruined a case. I make 358 Winchester from Lapua 308 palmer cases with the small rifle primer, tough as!
Cheers
Bob
17 Sep 2015
@ 07:00 am (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: 6.8 SPC
mike are you running .308 projectiles in your 7.62x39?
also what grain cast projectile you running?
im thinking about getting some to try in my one.
i had quick play shooting cast 214gr projectiles in my nephew's 303 i think this will be the way to go for bush stalking for him til he can handle full loads better.

this topic has made some very interesting reading and learning
17 Sep 2015
@ 08:19 am (GMT)

Mike Davis

Re: 6.8 SPC
yes Thomas that is correct .308 projectiles...it will shag necks of brass quicker but thats not a biggy for me, as still getting half dozen loadings.
cast.....151grn HPs and 170 grn FN both from Robert in Tokoroa..sells on trademe. the cast is used subsonic for shits n giggles
good for possums n hares under 50 yards or knocking over the house mutton, through suppressor they are not quite cat sneeze quiet but sure easy on ears,less than .22 subsonic through can.
17 Sep 2015
@ 08:21 am (GMT)

Mike Davis

Re: 6.8 SPC
there are guys running the .310 pills designed for 7.62x39mm in .303 brit for a reduced recoil load...might be worth a go for the young fella.
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