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> .17 HMR and Bore/Throat Polishing
.17 HMR and Bore/Throat Polishing
@ 06:13 am (GMT) |
Ryan NafeFellas,I’m looking to get a rimfire rifle set up with peep sights to use for plinking, squirrels, and rabbits. I only go for head shots on the squirrels and rabbits (the small game version of the “meat-saver” shot) and with peep sights that means a maximum distance of around 50 yards, for me. I think the .17 has a major advantage in trajectory over the Eley Subsonic Hollow .22LR I use in my scoped Savage MkI, especially since I’d like to use iron sights. With another S-TAC 3-16x42 scope I would be fine with the .22LR because it would be a piece of cake to dial up the range. But iron sights are a different thing, I’d prefer to sight in at a fixed distance and be good to go out to the limits of my ability to clearly see the animal’s head. Once zeroed on paper I’ll just use golf balls to replicate the head size and establish the limits of my effective range. Point of impact with the .17 HMR will remain virtually the same out to 75 yards, so I can zero the rifle at 25 and then I can use the rifle to shoot anything I can clearly see without having to adjust for holdover. BUT - I’m a little concerned about being able to polish the bore and throat of the rifle with poly pads because it’s such an incredibly small bore diameter. Is this feasible, can I actually do it fairly easily, or is that bore diameter just too small to do this? I would imagine it’s quite difficult for manufacturers to get the bore characteristics just right on the .17’s, so I’m anticipating the need to polish it right away. |
Replies
@ 06:00 am (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: .17 HMR and Bore/Throat PolishingThe .17s have been around for close to seventy years, or more. The barrels produce outstanding accuracy within the limits of the cartridge. Polishing may not be necessary, but it probably wouldn't hurt. As to the diminutive size of the bore, just use smaller tools. |
@ 08:01 am (GMT) |
Andrew MurrayRe: .17 HMR and Bore/Throat PolishingI was quite impressed with 17HMR my mate had. We were shooting at a clay target at around 200m-250m and though none of use hit it we were all within 75mm of the target. Essentially giving a 180mm group at that range. The trajectory was much better than anything my 22LR could manage.I am with Paul. Perhaps find a smaller tool. Easier said than done of course. But I think if you have a machine shop near by that may be a good place to start if you're looking for something you can't modify yourself. Perhaps standard tools and methods will actually be all you need? |
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@ 01:02 pm (GMT) |
Ryan NafeRe: .17 HMR and Bore/Throat PolishingAlright guys, I think I’ll give it a try.The irony of my .22 setup is that despite the 3-9 power scope, I really can’t hit heads reliably beyond about 25 yards because of the rainbow-like trajectory and the somewhat mediocre accuracy of the rifle/me. It’s not bedded, not free-floated, and the trigger is about as bad as I’ve ever seen on a bolt action. It’s kinda annoying to use, though at close ranges it’s perfectly serviceable. |
@ 09:19 am (GMT) |
Robert McLeanRe: .17 HMR and Bore/Throat PolishingSo I may get called out here by recommending a pull through system but I do have my reasons. I have a CZ 455 with 2 barrels, .22 and my new .17 that I haven't shot yet. I have a rod for my 22 and I know there are .17 rods. The issue is that they are pretty flexible at that diameter and I worry about that rod flexing in the barrel.So I bought a Patchworm. Google it... Its a pull through patch & felt button system. I love it for the 22. So I bought another kit for my center fire the field. I am very careful about the crown and guiding it into the barrel when i use it. As opposed to dragging through a dirty snake. With this, you are draggin through a cleaning patch or button. I even used JB's on a felt button for my last clean this fall. It was a thousand round season... I am ordering the .177 version which is supposed to be good for all .17. I am taking the chance because I love the .22 version so much. I just can't bring myself to trust a .17 rod and as a bonus with the Patchworm you don't need a bore guide. I live in canada and he shipped it to me pretty darn cheap. they are small ship and to carry in the field and they are pretty cheap to try. That is my 2 cents... |
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@ 05:05 pm (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: .17 HMR and Bore/Throat PolishingRobert, that sounds like a heck of a set-up. Going to have to check it out. Thanks.Ryan- you are talking about actually polishing the bore and not just cleaning it, right? I'm curious why you would think you need to polish it. Not dissing or arguing, just asking. |
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@ 09:09 pm (GMT) |
Ryan NafeRe: .17 HMR and Bore/Throat PolishingYes Paul, I mean polishing and not simply cleaning. The reason I thought polishing might be immediately necessary is because of a few things in combination with each other:- Pretty tiny bore diameter (copper fouling could add up quickly) - Relatively high velocities (2,550 - 2,750) - Its actually a bottleneck cartridge, so throat erosion might be an issue despite the tiny powder charges - I tend to be less careful with rimfire rifles, so a low-fouling bore might be best I’m really not sure if any of this will really matter though, it’s basically just a working hypothesis. It could be just as easy to use a mild solvent like Hoppe’s #9 a lot to prevent the buildup of copper or carbon, rather than doing any significant polishing. As an aside, I’m really hoping that CCI’s A17 ammo shoots well because that stuff has been demonstrated to be quite a bit faster than normal and a lot of guns shoot it pretty accurately. |
@ 10:11 pm (GMT) |
Warwick MarflittRe: .17 HMR and Bore/Throat Polishinghttp://www.sportingshooter.com.au/hunting-skills/22-lr-or-17-hmr[b] |
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@ 01:03 am (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: .17 HMR and Bore/Throat PolishingNow there's some good info, Warwick. Thanks. Seems to me a 222/223 would make more sense. At least you could have the fun of reloading. |
@ 02:40 am (GMT) |
JOHN HAYSRe: .17 HMR and Bore/Throat PolishingInteresting thread. I bought a .17 WSM for an upcoming moose-hunting trip. I haven’t had time to shoot it yet, but it is supposed to be a very high velocity round for a rimfire. “The Savage Arms B.Mag Target rifle is chambered in 17 Winchester Super Magnum with a 8+1 capacity. It has an 22" stainless steel barrel and gray laminated thumbhole stock. The receiver and barrel have a stainless finish.” I understand that this can be an accurate rifle if properly bedded. |
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@ 02:41 am (GMT) |
JOHN HAYSRe: .17 HMR and Bore/Throat PolishingOoooops! Mouse-hunting, not moose. |
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@ 07:41 am (GMT) |
Ryan NafeRe: .17 HMR and Bore/Throat PolishingYeah Warwick, that was an interesting article, thanks. It’s interesting that he noted that the .17 lost accuracy with high-volume shooting and no cleaning, that might lend credence to my ideas about the potential issues with such a small bore.I’m curious, do any of you guys have either a CZ rimfire or a Ruger American Rimfire? Those are the two rifles that are most tempting and I’m not particularly sure which way to go. Here’s how I currently think about the differences between the two: Ruger 22” .17 HMR: - Lower initial price, but not by much - Trigger can be dropped to 1 or 2 pounds with a simple spring change - Cheap, flush-fitting, 9-round magazines - Probably won’t need bedding work because of the built-in steel blocks - I can get a complete set of peep sights from Skinner - Somewhat toy-like feel, you can tell it’s a basic rimfire rifle - Very utilitarian and non-fancy CZ 455 Training Rifle .17 HMR: - Excellent tangent sights, plus available receiver peep sights - Not tremendously more expensive than the Ruger (like $350 - $400 vs $300 - $350 for the Ruger) - Magazines stick out a bit, kinda crappy for carrying - Trigger is decent and easily adjusted down to 1-2 pounds with a spring change - Looks extremely classy, harkens back to a 1940’s small game rifle (grandpa would probably have a rush of nostalgia when seeing it) - Feels like a real, serious, tank of a rifle - Will need a bedding job right away |
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@ 09:25 am (GMT) |
Robert McLeanRe: .17 HMR and Bore/Throat PolishingI love my CZ 455 22LR Varmint with Wood Stock. Is very similar feeling and weight to my Weatherby Sporter .270. shorter barrel of course. I have the same strap and scope right now on both, Leupold VX-2 4-12.Have a line on an affordable used Sightron SIII 6-24 Mil Mil so that just might change. I like having the same scope/reticle on both so I may have to find a mil S-TAC or something for the CZ. I used it at the range for practice all last summer. 3 round through the Weatherby, 10 rounds through the CZ, repeat.... It particularly loves the SK Standard Plus 22LR. 2" raged hole 10 rounds at 100 yards very consistently and if I really concentrate in no wind at all, much less. I plan to use the .17 hmr the same way at 200. Haven't tried firing with the .17 barrel on it yet but they seem to look, fit, and feel identical but I guess we will see. The range is pretty sheltered so wind effect on the .17 shouldn't be an issue most times. Trouble is right now I don't have a truck that will make it down and up the hill to the range. Mostly 15 round of my .270 loads, 50 rounds of 22 at each sitting. I found that makes for a nice afternoon. It is a tank of a 22, the barrel has never heated, no feeding issues. I like the magazine. I have never felt like I have lost accuracy in a sitting no matter how many rounds. I clean it after every use. Never had a gun that I was so satisfied with. The only issue I can see is that the scope position can likely interfere with the bolt. Not the VX-2 with medium Leupold rings but it is damn close and it was just luck. I will have to do some measuring before I replace that scope. |
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@ 11:03 am (GMT) |
JOHN HAYSRe: .17 HMR and Bore/Throat PolishingI chose the .17 WSM over the .17 HMR because if the ballistics, the particular Savage rifle I mentioned before and because I was looking for something with the maximum punch in a rimfire. This website was influential for my decision: https://www.huntinggearguy.com/rimfire/17-hmr-vs-17-wsm/ The 17 WSM sends a 20 grain bullet out at 3000 fps, whereas the HMR is sending a 17 grain bullet at 2550 fps. That makes for some difference in the field, with the HMR granting an MPBR of 165 yards, whereas the WSM can do it with 205 yards (I’m running calculations for gopher-sized targets). That’s an extra 40 yards of non-adjusted range. More impressive is the wind drift difference. With a 10 mph crosswind, at 100 yards the WSM will drift 1.6 inches vs the HMR at 3.1 inches over. That could be the difference between a hit and a miss. Quick numbers: (MPBR is for gophers: vertical target size of 3″) 17 WSM 20 grain: 3000 FPS: .185BC: MPBR: 205 yards Energy: 400 ft-lbs 17 WSM 25 grain: 2600 FPS: .23BC: MPBR: 186 yards Energy: 375 ft-lbs 17 HMR 17 grain: 2550 FPS: .128BC: MPBR: 165 yards Energy: 245 ft-lbs Performance Comparison: Energy This is the big difference here. The 17 WSM makes for a decent coyote gun, carrying more energy much further, and the 25 grain bullet gives an option for more weight/penetration of larger varmints. I think the 204 Ruger and 223 Rem are better pure coyote rounds, but the 17 WSM offers a very inexpensive option for coyote control. |
@ 11:30 am (GMT) |
VinceRe: .17 HMR and Bore/Throat PolishingHi RyanI have had a CZ 455 for about a year now, only modifications have been adding a scope (Vortex Crossfire II 6-18) and a suppressor, Bedding or lack therof and trigger are factory. The rifle will comfortably shoot 5 shots sub MOA at 100 in little or no wind off the bench, opens up to about 2.5-3 inches at 200. I use Hornady 17 gr VMAX which is pretty consistent though there is the odd flyer. The rifle gets cleaned with a pull through every couple of hundred rounds, I'm a bit wary of using a rod in a bore this small. I went on a trip down to the Mackenzie country in December for rabbits and wallabies and the rifle accounted for a couple of hundred rabbits and 20 wallabies out to about 150 metres with no feeding problems or any other issues, great thing about these projectiles is that they don't ricochet like a 22 but you do have to be aware of the wind, they get blown around a lot! Definitely recommend the CZ Cheers Vince |
@ 03:05 pm (GMT) |
Mike RRe: .17 HMR and Bore/Throat PolishingMy 17 hmr is a Ruger with a timney trigger and it will do 1/2-1 MOA at 100 with weight sorted ammo sometimes I can get them nearly all touching. Beauty with 17 hmr is that it is relatively quieter than centerfires, and in Australia still cheaper than my 223 reloads. I can get 500 winchesters for $125 which is 25cents a shot. 223 costs me about 40-45cents to reload. Someone bought up the 17 wsm while it definitely has a performance advantage it costs a whole lot more at $225 per 500 which is 45cents a shot, again this is in Australia which I would assume would be a similar difference in New Zealand. I can easily go through 1 full box of 50 with no problem when I start my second is when the barrel starts to get too much copper in it. Could be half way through or 3/4 through the second box but barrel does go off. My friend had an older 17Rem or something that runs close to 4,000 fps it would copper up very very quickly at about a box sometimes even much less than that |
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@ 03:34 pm (GMT) |
John D. Hays - New MexicoRe: .17 HMR and Bore/Throat PolishingMike, Looks like best price for .17 WSM here in the States is $74.80 USD per 500 rounds which is $0.15 USD a shot. The price for .17 HMR is the same |
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@ 03:37 pm (GMT) |
John D Hays - New MexicoRe: .17 HMR and Bore/Throat PolishingMike,I make that $104.16 AUD for 500 rounds. |
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@ 03:37 pm (GMT) |
John D Hays - New MexicoRe: .17 HMR and Bore/Throat PolishingMike,I make that $104.16 AUD for 500 rounds. |
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@ 04:51 pm (GMT) |
Mike RRe: .17 HMR and Bore/Throat PolishingYeah I know we unfortunately don't get those prices in Australia at all, cheapest shop arguably in Australia is Cleavers firearms what is on there website right now I've just looked because i need another brick. If we could get 17WSM for the same price it would be hugely popular but we can't so it ain'tOf course I was presuming Ryan was either in New Zealand or Australia I can't tell. I wouldn't be surprised if living in En Zed you couldn't even buy 17wsm |
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@ 05:12 pm (GMT) |
Vincent MarconRe: .17 HMR and Bore/Throat PolishingHi MikeUnfortunately you are correct for NZ, availability of the 17WSM ammo can be patchy at best which is one of the reasons I chose the 17HMR. I think Ryan is from America so this may not be an issue there, we also have problems on supply with the 17HM2 which is probably also worth consideration if he is only shooting to 75 yards with open sights. Less powder, less noise and potentially less copper fouling/bore erosion with a milder cartridge and a flat enough trajectory for the ranges he is shooting? Who would have thought the 17hmr might be too much gun! Cheers Vince |
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@ 05:53 pm (GMT) |
John D. Hays - New MexicoRe: .17 HMR and Bore/Throat PolishingWell, prices here are not always low and a few short (Obama) years ago it was tough to find quantities of .22LR as well as many other calibers, and prices were higher then because of artificially/politically constrained supply and demand. The Federal govenment under the Obama administration was buying up massive quantities of ammunition and massively arming all kinds of Federal agencies one wouldn't expect. The IRS (taxation) is "frightening the nation with their guns and ammunition." (Actually not that frightening, but why do accountants need arms enough to equip the military of a South American country?) .17 WSM is definitely not highly popular here. Most consider the .17 HMR to be the cat's pajamas. In addition to HMR having the jump on the market by ten years+, the .17 WSM has rumors of accuracy problems. I have also heard tell that careful bedding of the .17 WSM tames any accuracy problems. But remember, all this is rimfire so there is not tuning by reloading. Makes me wonder about barrel twist. |
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@ 08:57 pm (GMT) |
Warwick MarflittRe: .17 HMR and Bore/Throat PolishingIve got one .22LR CZ 452 American. with a big super quiet custom made $110 suppressor...... Thomas and I went out this afternoon and for a hoot where shooting subs out to 236yards lol with my Sightron 8-32x56 Milrad fitted. To be fair it was dialed right up for that distance and the wind was gusting all over the place it was still on the spot. And a heap of funVideo of it https://youtu.be/pRIKiK2msls |
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@ 09:41 pm (GMT) |
Warwick MarflittRe: .17 HMR and Bore/Throat Polishing
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@ 04:08 am (GMT) |
Ryan NafeRe: .17 HMR and Bore/Throat PolishingGuys, this thread I found the other day is why I think it’s probably a very good idea to bed it, pay special attention to the first two pictures:https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=489777&=1 —- The .17 Mach 2 is actually something I’d be very interested in using, there are around one hundred boxes of 50 on a local store shelf. The main problem is that I have yet to find a rifle in that cartridge. Probably one reason the ammo is sort of stockpiled there, virtually nobody locally owns those rifles. —- Mike R, when you stop to clean the barrel somewhere into the second box, do you go through a full copper solvent process to completely strip out all the copper fouling, or just a normal cleaning procedure with a mild solvent like Hoppe’s #9? —- Mike R, which Ruger is it? I’m curious. |
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@ 07:42 pm (GMT) |
Mike RRe: .17 HMR and Bore/Throat PolishingWe'll run them till they go off and then put them away and switch back to centerfires, sometimes the wind picks up so they get put away anyway. Next day all guns get a clean, Some trips the wind is such we only use them for a couple of shots. I use Butches bore shine which seems to work quite well, follow instructions on bottle. There maybe better cleaners out there, but this one works for me. Your situation/rifle may very from what mine is. My Ruger is a 77/17 varmint which I got secondhand unfired for near half price. I put a timney trigger and a Zeiss Terra 4-12 but need more magnification though so looking at going up to 4-16 or 6-18. So the terra is now on my 303 Mad |
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