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Forum Index > Rifles general discussion > Thoughts on the 35 Calibers

Thoughts on the 35 Calibers

22 Mar 2015
@ 06:53 pm (GMT)

Thomas Pavelka



I was going through some old photos and stumbled across this one. This Bear was taken in New Brunswick Canada with a Remington 350 Rem Mag Model 600 some years back when I was a younger pup.

As I remember, the rifle was quite short of barrel at 18 1/2 inches or so, the bolt was an strange dog leg affair. With a handloaded 240 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw, or it may well have been a 225 grain bullet, (memory is failing me on the exact bullet I used) in that little 5.5 pound gun I much regret to say it kicked like Hell. But it was the berries for climbing up trees and waiting out bears.

My Guide had said in spades, "I don't care what you hit em with, don't expect them to drop right there, they always run."

Well after 3 mornings and 3 evenings getting drained of all my blood by those miserable 3 pound Black Flies they have in Canada, the 4th morning as it was barely getting light I thought I saw a hummock stump move in the swamp.

The bear must have sensed something was up because he didn't want to come in. After a few minutes he decided to bail out. As he went to turn I fired a shot at what I best could determine was his shoulder in that dim light.

Fully expecting the Bear to be running for all he was worth I sat in the tree waiting for it to happen. Nothing. I jacked up the scope and looked where he had been. All I saw was a front paw waving it's last. He was down and out stone dead without even a death moan. And it dawned on me then that the 35 caliber rifles had much merit in the quick taking of game.

I parted company with that rifle after that hunt and went to a 35 Whelen because the chamber was cut way large on that 600 rifle. The case was stretched so bad in front of the belt I could not get a second reload in it as it would come in two.

The Rem 700 in the Whelen solved that problem and was a much more pleasant rifle to shoot.

The Whelen was a death ray on Russian Boars and any hit fair with it did not last for long. In most cases it was a bang flop affair just as we like it.

For a spell I itched all over to get my crabcrackers on a 358 Norma Mag but was unable to come up with a rifle for it and then went to the 378 Weatherby and called it a day.

It would be a wonderful thing IMHO for Weatherby or another gun manufacturer to come out with a 35 cal rifle on the 378 case. Another possibility would be on the 375 H&H case.

Sometimes it makes a man ache when he is a rifle nut :)

Replies

1
22 Mar 2015
@ 07:45 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Thoughts on the 35 Calibers
Hi Paul, I have been meaning to ask why you are not using a .35 for in close work when it seems it would suit you down to the ground- stop them in their tracks as you would say. Odd that you should post this.

Yes, its a shame that U.S gun makers do not fully support this bore any more.

If you want a potent .358, the options are endless if you are willing to have someone build it. You choose the reamer and away you go. You could have a .358 / .338 RUM or a .358 / .375 RUM akin to my 9.3 RUM. Or you could get traditional and gather up some .338 Win Mag brass and go with a .358 Norma, a simple rifle perhaps based on a Howa action and Boyds stock. I have a feeling the Norma may suit you well as it can be loaded mild if you are over the big shunt (or brake blast) of the .378. And there is no great need to go with a 26" barrel for this. A stout 24" would be fine. The Whelen is more than adequate but if you want something with x factor, I don't think you have to go too big with this. It would also help avoid any unnecessary bullet stress as the .35 bullets are already quite soft (excellent for energy transfer).

Got yourself in trouble now haven't you. You've got that itch.

They call me the enabler. Or as wives say- "whats Nathan got you buying now"?
22 Mar 2015
@ 08:12 pm (GMT)

Thomas Pavelka

Re: Thoughts on the 35 Calibers
Nathan my good man, you are a trouble maker, and I mean that in the kindest way.

Yes, it would be some powerful Bear medicine. I have had tremendous luck with the Howa actions. By George, I think I have it!
22 Mar 2015
@ 08:45 pm (GMT)

Martin Taylor

Re: Thoughts on the 35 Calibers
You could build my plan for me, my wallet didn't allow it with all the mark ups we get thrown at us down here!

Pacnor do .358 barrels and will pre-cut the chamber for you leaving only the final fit up. Heaps of good options Norma, 35 Sambar(300wsm) and many others. Cool project!!!!!!

Nathan's now saying to Steph, here go's Marty again, back on the 358's!!
23 Mar 2015
@ 02:27 am (GMT)

Bob Mavin

Re: Thoughts on the 35 Calibers
G'day Guys
This link got me started on the 358 Winchester. With necked up 308 Lapua palmer cases and 2206H powder, 225gn Woodleigh's are coming out at 2620fps, ample for everything in Oz.
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/358_wcf.htm

Bob
23 Mar 2015
@ 03:43 am (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: Thoughts on the 35 Calibers
the enabler got a nice ring to it Nathan and i'm sue steph knows how little convincing most of a us need to start a project.

i was looking into the ruger cartridges the other day looks like no one has done a 35 on the rcm or 375 ruger case but most other combo's including a kiwi guy that does a 7mm/375 ruger.
looks like howa does a rifle in 375 ruger to if its any help
23 Mar 2015
@ 04:03 am (GMT)

Martin Taylor

Re: Thoughts on the 35 Calibers
You have that thing humming Bob, that's up around 35 Whelen speeds.

No wonder you are happy with it!
23 Mar 2015
@ 04:24 am (GMT)

Bob Mavin

Re: Thoughts on the 35 Calibers
Thomas, those 308 Lapua palmer cases with the small rifle primer are tough as!!! I've loaded those cases 9 times, still good. 49.2 of 2206H. At 200m they flatten big Samba/Rusa Stags. Normal size Deer Doe's & yearlings, you can eat right up to the bullet hole but hit a big Stag that has resistance and it bruises them something shocking. High shoulder hit and you throw most of the front end away.
But most of the time I run 225 Sierra GK @ 2450fps, still does the job.

Bob
23 Mar 2015
@ 07:23 pm (GMT)

Thomas Pavelka

Re: Thoughts on the 35 Calibers
I'm starting to think I'm in a whole heap of trouble now that I got the itch for a 35 cal rifle again.

And that I'm not reloading these days throws a wrench in the gears so to speak.

But this child didn't just fall off no turnip truck and I think I have come up with a way to put this together for very short Frogskins.

Following the "Master's" advice once again, why not a 35 Whelen. Why not!

Now I could go the route of building up a rifle but there are other options. For Example:

I could get a 35 Whelen barrel for my Encore. But then, I can get a whole rifle for less than a TC barrel.



$541 USD plus freight for this CVA Apex in 35 Whelen, and just add a scope. And factory ammo is readily available.

Where all my shooting is pretty much off the end of gun barrel so to speak I don't need gnats nuts accuracy, and I don't need fire power.

Why I just may bitch slap a Bear this season with a 35 Whelen. I do love it when a plan comes together.

Thank you Gentlemen!!!
23 Mar 2015
@ 07:48 pm (GMT)

Bob Mavin

Re: Thoughts on the 35 Calibers
Hi Thomas
There's nothing like buying a new rifle.
Would a repeater be better for critters that bite? Remington chamber the 35 whelan you could throw 9.3x62 into the mix too. I can imagine a Encore in 35 Whelen would recoil a kin with your 3" 12g.
It would be a prick if it knocked you off your perch alongside a cranky bear!!!! Be a hit on youtube though if get it on video.
Cheers
Bob
23 Mar 2015
@ 08:23 pm (GMT)

Martin Taylor

Re: Thoughts on the 35 Calibers
Bob do you have to tamp down that much powder with a drop tube maybe, it must be fairly compressed? I run std Lapua cases in my 308 and I haven't tried to that amount but it would have to be a tight fit.
I know you have told us before but what action are you running it through, long action or a longer length short action like a Whinchester or similar to seat the pills to the base of the neck?
23 Mar 2015
@ 09:12 pm (GMT)

Bob Mavin

Re: Thoughts on the 35 Calibers
Hi Martin
I use a drop tube & the powder is slightly compressed. The bottom of the projectile is 1mm up from the bottom of the neck and 20th off the lands. Gives you 7mm of neck support on the projectile.
L579 Sako, Madco barrel & McMillan stock. It doesn't matter if I use 47gns 2450fps through to 49.2gns 2640 fps, they all shoot 1/2" or better groups.
I initially thought the 225 Sierra GK's were too soft as there wasn't much pill left after a shoulder shot on a big bodied Samba, but then I thought "hey they drop on the spot" so I'm still using them, especially on 200-300m shots. My favourite pill is 225 Woodleigh's xy though.
Bob
23 Mar 2015
@ 09:20 pm (GMT)

Bob Mavin

Re: Thoughts on the 35 Calibers
Marty
That extra space of chamfer plus 1mm of neck at .358" dia holds a lot more powder than the 308 case. I run 46gns of 2208 in my 308. If you can get hold of some palmer cases they're worth it!

ps. I was distracted and put my 358 on used guns but have given myself an uppercut and came to my senses.
Bob
23 Mar 2015
@ 10:17 pm (GMT)

Martin Taylor

Re: Thoughts on the 35 Calibers
Don't sell a good toy like that Bob, costs too much to build up these things now! l ended up going with the 9.3 because of the crazy costings on a semi-custom build and the Tikka was off the shelf.
23 Mar 2015
@ 10:22 pm (GMT)

Bob Mavin

Re: Thoughts on the 35 Calibers
I know mate. This was built by a mate RTM rifles, as good as they get! It's still on used guns but not selling.
Bob
24 Mar 2015
@ 04:28 pm (GMT)

Thomas Pavelka

Re: Thoughts on the 35 Calibers
Quote:
Hi Thomas
..........It would be a prick if it knocked you off your perch alongside a cranky bear!!!! Be a hit on youtube though if get it on video.
Cheers
Bob


The one that I should have got on video was a place NW of Quebec in Canada. That would have gone viral for sure.

It was a a time when we could not get hunting guns into Canada. I do not remember what the rhubarb was about, whether it was the US pissed off Canada or there was just bad blood going on at the time.

In any event we scheduled a Boar hunt with of all things crossbows, as we could get them across the border.

We arrived at the camp, unloaded our gear, got a bite to eat, and then got the "cooks tour" of the breeding grounds for the "New" strain of Russian Boars that we would be hunting.

Somehow, they had managed to alter as I believe it was, the 13th chromosome of these pigs. This made them larger, and much more aggressive we were told.

In going around the compound I could not help but notice that about tail gate height the 2 inch diameter bars surrounding the rooters was quite dented, bulging out some good 6 inches in places.

I said to the Guide, "You Canadians apparently can't back up a truck for shit." as I looked at the bars. Oh no he says, that is from the Boars trying to get out! Are you kiddin me! And we're going in after these things with bows.

The following morning we are off to the hunt. Those rooters were like a super strain of pigs. Somehow they anticipated our every move and we could not get in range to stick one. By about mid day it dawned on me that the tuskers were coming out at a corner of a glade and if I set up there I might be able to bushwhack one of the SOBs.

I had barely settled down in the goldenrods when I heard piggies coming down the bunny trail, grunting and oinking in their finest hour. As the first pig came into sight I did a double take. Holy Hanah! These suckers are HUGE!

One in particular suited my fancy, a very large specimen with huge tusks. As they were on the move I swung the red dot ahead of the intended victim a goodly amount and touched off a bolt.

As soon as I released it, it looked to be way to far out in front. But as the pig and the bolt were each going, the closer the bolt got, the more it looked like it might rather be a late shot.

And it hit that porker square in the ass! Damn!!! The oinker heads out some 80 meters into the glade, does a couple of 360's like a dog going to take a nap, and promptly falls over. Ahhhh, good deal I 'm thinking, femoral artery hit. Done deal.

I gathered my gear and headed out to claim my prize. Upon arrival I see the rooter is down, but not out. He's heaving and quite miserable. Knowing I have to put a merciful end to this I pull out my knife.

Of a sudden the pig is on his feet looking none the worse for wear. In fact his eyes are now beady and he's looking dirt mean. And then, he charged.

I'm out in the middle of a friggen glade, the closest tree is more that 80 meters away. Think quick. As the hog came in for the hit I figured if I could get him to go between my legs I just might have a run at the tree line since rooters can't turn around that fast.

It was a fairly good plan that went to the dogs about as fast as I came up with the idea. The pig was wider than my legs would spread, and as he went through he took the legs right out from under me. I did a face plant right square on his back, grabbed as much hair as I could, and tried to dig in my boots as I was going backwards as fast as that tank could go.

Then he started bucking with his snout, right in my chest. Many years later my ribs are still not in right alignment from that adventure. I started stabbing the Russian with my knife. Again, and again. Suddenly he let out a deafening squeal and dropped. I fell off figuring he might just be up to more no good. He was dead.

It was then I heard the gut ripping laughter off in the distance. My Guide, the very same one I made comment to about Canadian driving abilities had witnessed the whole show. As the tears rolled down his face from laughter, he looked at me and said; "You Americans hunt funny." Touche.

And you wonder why I love 378 Weatherbys :)



24 Mar 2015
@ 10:37 pm (GMT)

Mike Neeson

Re: Thoughts on the 35 Calibers
Hilarious. Great story.
27 Mar 2015
@ 02:05 am (GMT)

Jeff Kmoch

Re: Thoughts on the 35 Calibers
I have a .358 STA chambered on a Remington 700 LSS. It is a great caliber with substantial thump. There is a lot of loading data out there and brass is available. This caliber would fit your description of a .375 H&H necked down to .35 cal.
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