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close range large animals
@ 04:11 am (GMT) |
Mike DavisNathan and anyone else with real experience some advice please.....mate is doing home kills and after using .357mag with mixed results on big cattle is after a bit more athority I have suppressed 7.62x39mm which I think will fit bill nicely..suppressor will take noise down a tad and cartridge should preform task better, I like the look of the highland round nose 123 grn with big soft points but havent tried them myself yet. shots will be under 30 yards and mostly in a small paddock. I myself hand load this wee round so are open to any suggestions as to what would be best for task at hand. Im thinking the likes of barnaul may be too hard and risk over penetration so feel softer pill maybe better, I have some cast pills that surely DONT over penetrate at subsonic speeds but are prone to wizz off into distance with a ricochet if dont hit target and stop!!! thanks in advance. |
Replies
@ 04:58 am (GMT) |
deerndingoRe: close range large animalsAt 30 metres it would be a head shot is suppose. I'm not sure you have to go to 7.6 x 39 for that, but if that's all you have then its a quick and humane death. That's what you want...sure as hell the animal wants it quick. |
@ 05:05 am (GMT) |
David BathRe: close range large animalsI'm curious as to the mixed results with 357mag? For this type of work we used a 22, but this should be done in yards or the like to remove all risk of a bad shot. 10 yards or closer..... |
@ 05:52 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: close range large animalsHi Mike, one of the troubles with the .357 is that a lot of ammo is home defense as as your mate has found, won't handle tough animals. There have been a number of pigs killed over the years, the hunter then discovering a .357 magnum bullet in the shoulder shield or just between the shield and muscle of the shoulder from an earlier encounter. You just have to understand that this occurs when home defense loads are used rather than hunting ammo- and that hunting ammo is actually not that common (in NZ anyway) even though we (again in NZ) use the .357 for hunting and not home defense. A 180gr Hornady XTP would do the job. Failing this, the core bonded Speer Gold dot is the way to go- very tough bullets.In the 7.62x39, just about anything goes. Just shoot what is accurate, Over penetration is rare but can pay to put an axe or chainsaw through the skull to double check (hard to find projectiles further down). I would be happy to use Barnaul. A suppressor is becoming the norm for home kill. Just make sure your mate has a good cleaning regime in place because he may feel to stuffed at the end of the day to clean his rifle- but if he has a suppressor, he needs to get in and huck out the crap from the chamber and muzzle each evening. So take this into account. .22 is good in yards but yes, out at 30 yards it can pay to have a bit more punch. Nothing worse than watching a steer take out every fence for a half mile after insufficient power. Yes, ricochet is a problem if the bullets are way too hard. That would be the only downside of Barnaul if potential misses occur. Best to shoot over the roof of a Landcruiser etc to keep the angle steep and allow a steady rest. |
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@ 03:46 am (GMT) |
Mike DavisRe: close range large animalscheers for the replies guys, kind of reinforced what I was thinking. a lot of home kill around here will be in a paddock bigger than ideal. |
@ 08:17 am (GMT) |
GREGG FOSSERe: close range large animalsIf shooting suppresed why not use a round that is normally subsonic in factory ammunition, usually has a FMJ bullet, and is intended for a semi-automatic pistol that can be effectively suppressed (a revolver cannot).Do you have 45 ACP down under? Is it commonly available? |
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@ 03:10 am (GMT) |
Mike DavisRe: close range large animalsI see your point there but the .357 ammo price has gone through the roof...which is another reason to look at options. $3 a round is ridiculous for .357...I can load 7.62 sub sonic for next to nothing. cast projectiles are $15 for 50..trail boss powder is cheap and goes a very very long way at 7.5 grains per load. the only thing I have found with this load while out shooting rabbits is if you miss and hit the ground they wizz of into the distance with alarming regularity!!!! solid back ground or hitting what you aim at stops them well.... |
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@ 10:03 am (GMT) |
GREGG FOSSERe: close range large animalsThe cost of factory loaded ammo has become an extreme burden to the average wage earner that is for sure. Here in the USA, Homeland Security agencies have purchased over a billion rounds of ammunition which is contributing to the problem. At least we can sleep peacefully in our beds at night, knowing we are protected from box-cutter wielding terrorists....The reason I suggested 45 ACP is because in 230 grain ball ammo it will stay below the speed of sound (about 1150 fps) even out of a suppressed rifle. The 357 on the other hand is normally loaded with a 125 JHP at 1500 fps out of a 6" revolver barrel. As Nathan points out this bullet is a poor choice for penetration in a large bovine. Suppressors seem to be gaining acceptance but I am wondering how they are cleaned and if they add to the cleaning burden for the rest of the firearm. I know they quickly become very hot but for safety reasons need to be checked frequently to be sure they are not unscrewing from the barrel. It seems they need to be easily removable for cleaning (?) but this requirement necessitates constant vigilance to be sure the suppressor is not working itself loose, posing a serious threat to safety. |
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@ 03:56 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: close range large animalsWe have .45 ACP here for pistol and rifle shooters (Marlin Camp Carbine). The .44-40 is also pretty good for cattle work. These are certainly adequate but Mike is set on his path now. He can load any bullet from 123gr up to 180gr soft point (.303 Brit projectiles) for bolt action or simply use cheap Russian ammo. I am still leaning towards the Russian ammo rather than typical soft points because it has good penetration qualities being steel jacketed (copper coated). Hard cast / low velocity can also offer good penetration.I have put notes regarding suppressors in the first book and my upcoming book. They do add to the cleaning burden and there are safety issues which need to be taken into account. A degree of vigilance is required. Both the 125 and 158gr factory .357 Magnum loads are problematic for hunting tough animals. Many 158gr loads are still geared towards home defense / maximum immediate energy transfer. Great for killing light framed deer but no good for cattle as Mike's friend has found. |
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