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> Weird rem700 bolt
Weird rem700 bolt
@ 10:20 am (GMT) |
Alvaro PiquerasHello!I still having my hate/love relationship with the Remington 700 rifle… I get a 700bdl from a fiend. I get it from his grandfather, who passed away many years ago and they round the rifle recently. I have no idea about rifle history… but it’s an older one. Because an image worth a thousand words… Please clik the link to see the video… https://youtu.be/ndi0hiRrSak I have bedded the action, polish the bolt lugs and head… clean everything… What the hell is going on hereeee??? BTW, the video is recorded with ejector and firing pin removed from bolt… Cheers!! |
Replies
@ 10:55 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Weird rem700 boltHi Alvaro, the video helped a lot. Could you please inspect the rear edges of the locking lugs. There needs to be a very small chamfer where the edge of the lugs begin to engage with the lug rebates. If there is no chamfer, or if the bolt has been dropped on concrete at some point, putting a burr on an edge, this will create difficulty closing the action.This rifle would have been test fired and cycled several times at Remington, so I suspect you are looking for something that has happened since then. Note that the chamfer must be very small. So besides cleaning off burrs, try to avoid making the chamfer heavy / large. Instead, try to polish the existing chamfer smooth, Looking from the back of the bolt forward, the chamfers are located at 5 o'clock and 11 o'clock. OK, try that for a start. |
@ 03:40 pm (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Weird rem700 boltOr, the extractor isn’t clearing the rim . . . or the throat is dirty . . . or the brass is slightly large for the throat. I’ve run into factory loads I couldn’t chamber. |
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@ 06:44 am (GMT) |
Alvaro PiquerasRe: Weird rem700 boltHello!As allways, thank you all for the help. I have been attending to the bolt in detail, and taking your suggestions in mind. I think that the following conclussion apply: - The issue shown in the vid is related with the extractor claw. For whatever reason the cartridge is not "sliding" or "jumping" over it, so it takes considerable force to enagage the extractor. Once engaged, the bolt closes smoothly as shown. - The headspace (or chamber dimensions) are tight... new brass seems to fit OK, but sometimes with a little resistance. Once fired cases (tested from different rifles) usually don´t chamber. If full sized at maximun, some work, some doesn´t. Some mark the belt, some a few milimetres above the bell (that´s why I think chamber is tight, not only short headspace...) - All that said, I checked the bolt lugs chamfers... the lugs HAVE them, but there is also some markings when closing the bolt on an empty chamber with the firing pin in place (the sear applying rearward force to the lugs. - If I´m not mistaken, this rifle is dated apprx january 1987 (by barrel markings -BH- and action S/N prefix -B-). It seem to NOT have been fired in excess.. but the issues were there since the beginning. The primary extraction surface in the bolt is showing VEAVY burrs and dents. I assume this was caused by the previous owner trying to open the bolt on stucked cases? What to do? I have dissasembled an polished the extractor. Hope to be able to reuse the same again, because it seems difficult to find a new one for replacement. I have polished the bolt face (thus givin a few thou extra headspace). When cycling "tight" cases the ejector makes VERY heavy burrs in the case bottom I have polished lugs chamfers and filed veeery little in the places where the bolt cycles removed the sharpie. I am considering to lap the bolt lugs a little bit more... I´m risking primary extraction issues but this will give me a few thou extra headspace. By the way, the lugs contact could be improved, they are not in "perfect" contact yet. I will let the primary extraction surface as is, hoping to be able to get some hundred rounds without issues. Suggestions really appreciated. I used to share pics here using photobucket (if i recall well)... but now it looks that you have to sign in. Do you know another "good" hosting web to share pics here? I will be happy to show my tests... Cheers!! |
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@ 06:46 am (GMT) |
Alvaro PiquerasRe: Weird rem700 boltAdding info related to extractor claw:After dissasembly I was able to remove a lot of "dirt" behind the extractor... so probably the dirt makes difficult to the claw to "retract" in order to allow the case to set into position... Hope that makes sense... :) |
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@ 07:42 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Weird rem700 boltI should have said at the beginning, this type of problem is best taken to a gunsmith.Extractor problems can be highly problematic, increasing the need to have someone experienced in this area (possibly having made their own mistakes in the past). In practice, if a Rem extractor has been damaged, it is often difficult to correct and may need to be replaced. Also but probably not related to this rifle - while the issue may well be benign, one should nevertheless be suspicious as to the cause of damage (i.e. previous over pressure ammo and therefore possible lug set back). If the headpsace is tight as you say, the extractor may have been damaged after factory loads proved hot and the previous owner continued to shoot and forcefully remove cases, thereby damaging the extractor. Note that a burred chamber will also place the extractor under considerable stress. Steel cases (i.e. 7.62x54r) can also sometimes cause major issues in tight chambers. If the extractor needs replacing, you'll have to think about options vs the issues of modern post. If you cannot get a new extractor posted to you, perhaps talk to a gunsmith about fitting a Sako or Tikka extractor to the rifle. Its really hard to diagnose this sort of thing via the internet, so easy to put you wrong. |
@ 07:22 am (GMT) |
Mark PalmerRe: Weird rem700 boltI am dealing with the same issue on a Rem 700 LR 300 Win Mag… it was also a used rifle but very well maintained. The problems are about identical to the ones described here. Does not happen every time but I would say the majority of the time. A little hard bolt close followed by a little hard bolt open. When it does this it doesn’t eject the empty or live round. It will pull it out of chamber but it just lets go and empty or live round just lays inside breach. Same ejector marks as described but only when the bolt drags. That part didn’t match up to an extractor but I ordered a new one anyway. Removed and replaced extractor and bucked in new rivet. Very slight improvement, but basically still doing same thing. I only have one type of brass right now as it was the only brass I could find, even now. The brass I’m using is PPU. I picked some up for other calibers also. Seems ok but not quite as accurate as Winchester/Remington/Hotnady/or even Federal. I would say roughly a 1/4” bigger group size. Neck tension not consistent at all. Other than that it seems ok, no pressure problems or resizing issues. I bumped shoulder back a little more, no change. I measured rim thickness to see if that was too thick and not letting extractor ride over rim, that would explain extraction and heavy ejector marks. Nope, rim thickness ok. That’s where I’m at with mine but as I have just read this thread and am thinking about it more now, there was some things brought up that has turned up the dimmer switch on the light bulb… Since it doesn’t do it every time, I should go back and check brass again. Not rim thickness but from the top of belt to bottom of rim. I bet there are variations and the ones that have the dragging bolt are the ones with a longer measurement, basically bottoming the case out causing a binding bolt. Seems like the extractor would still ride over rim if bolt closed but maybe the case sticks some and the extractor starts riding back over rim before it frees up. Wow…I’m glad I checked in and saw this thread. Can’t wait to get home and check it out.I have the exact same rifle in 7mag. Guess I could use its bolt to cycle the dragging empties with, just to eliminate any bolt issues, more to follow… Hopefully all this rambling will help you out. Respectfully, Mark |
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@ 07:45 am (GMT) |
Alvaro PiquerasRe: Weird rem700 boltHi!No worries at all! I´m more than happy to be learning with the great help and support of this forum, specially (of course) from Nathan. There are different ways to skin a cat... but the only way to learn to do it it´s actually skinning it! I will keep toying around with the plan... in the end, I hope new bas really-fully-tightly resized will chamber and cycle well... Another option could be a small base die... Please let me know about a web for hosting images that work well, so I can share pics. Cheers!! |
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@ 07:50 am (GMT) |
Alvaro PiquerasRe: Weird rem700 boltQuote: I am dealing with the same issue on a Rem 700 LR 300 Win Mag… it was also a used rifle but very well maintained. The problems are about identical to the ones described here. Does not happen every time but I would say the majority of the time. A little hard bolt close followed by a little hard bolt open. When it does this it doesn’t eject the empty or live round. It will pull it out of chamber but it just lets go and empty or live round just lays inside breach. Same ejector marks as described but only when the bolt drags. That part didn’t match up to an extractor but I ordered a new one anyway. Removed and replaced extractor and bucked in new rivet. Very slight improvement, but basically still doing same thing. I only have one type of brass right now as it was the only brass I could find, even now. The brass I’m using is PPU. I picked some up for other calibers also. Seems ok but not quite as accurate as Winchester/Remington/Hotnady/or even Federal. I would say roughly a 1/4” bigger group size. Neck tension not consistent at all. Other than that it seems ok, no pressure problems or resizing issues. I bumped shoulder back a little more, no change. I measured rim thickness to see if that was too thick and not letting extractor ride over rim, that would explain extraction and heavy ejector marks. Nope, rim thickness ok. That’s where I’m at with mine but as I have just read this thread and am thinking about it more now, there was some things brought up that has turned up the dimmer switch on the light bulb… Since it doesn’t do it every time, I should go back and check brass again. Not rim thickness but from the top of belt to bottom of rim. I bet there are variations and the ones that have the dragging bolt are the ones with a longer measurement, basically bottoming the case out causing a binding bolt. Seems like the extractor would still ride over rim if bolt closed but maybe the case sticks some and the extractor starts riding back over rim before it frees up. Wow…I’m glad I checked in and saw this thread. Can’t wait to get home and check it out.
I have the exact same rifle in 7mag. Guess I could use its bolt to cycle the dragging empties with, just to eliminate any bolt issues, more to follow… Hopefully all this rambling will help you out. Respectfully, Mark Hey Mark! Thanks for your help... I hope you were able to get it sorted.. I will keep updating the post with info. I think I will be able to have access to a few brand new LAPUA brass... this can make a difference- Another option, based in your post, is to file a few thousands of the brass belt... and let the winnie to headspace in the shoulder... |
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@ 12:26 pm (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Weird rem700 boltCompare the case diameter directly in front of the belt of a cartridge that chambers easily with the diameter of one that doesn’t. |
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@ 02:38 pm (GMT) |
Mark PalmerRe: Weird rem700 boltOk guy’s, thought I would post my findings after I got home and checked it out. Looks like it was all my fault to begin with! Started looking at my empty cases again. Brass looks ok with no visible signs of pressure. Started chambering empty cases and separating sticky cases. Got the calipers out and found the problem pretty quick. Wish I would have seen Scott’s post before I started but he was right on the money. The case was expanded out just ahead of belt. Fired cases that were sticky measured at .516, cases that extract fine measured at .512. This was measured just above belt. Soooo, here’s a lesson on complacency. It’s been a few years since I owned a 300 win mag. Had a Sendero before but let it go. Had loads already developed so I used those as my starting point. Checked my brass after each firing, no visible signs of pressure and you could not feel an abnormalities with fired cases. When resizing cases there was no excessive force to resize. So, I never took any checks of brass further. My mistake…I replaced the extractor for nothing. Guess I’m running it a little too hot. All due to being complacent.Be careful out there and be safe. |
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@ 04:54 am (GMT) |
Alvaro PiquerasRe: Weird rem700 boltHey!!Did same test… BANG!! .511 chambers nice… .518 didn’t!! Next thing to check is SAAMI tolerances… is this chamber “fault”? Let’s see… A small base die will/may help? @Scott Thanks for the great advice (next time Please reply sooner LOL) @Mark nice from your side to give us honest feedback. I really enjoy this learning experiences. As far as I know, the best way to learn os by doing mistakes. Nothing makes a clearer and deeper lesson un our brains than a mistake. For example… i thought I was able to remember scope turret revolutions and remember to go back to zero after each shot… Now allways mark the zero on my turrets… don’t ask me how I learn… Cheers! |
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@ 06:18 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Weird rem700 boltYes, would have helped a bit to know that the issue was with handloads, not new brass. As mentioned earlier, coms can be confused so easily online. |
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@ 09:16 am (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Weird rem700 boltThe only word I understood in Alvaro’s YouTube video was “factory.”It seems like a cartridge that headspaces on a belt invites carbon build-up in the throat and chamber. |
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@ 09:28 am (GMT) |
Mark PalmerRe: Weird rem700 boltNice Alvaro, you found the issue also. Same as mine. I am really suspecting my brass is the issue. I feel like it’s probably too soft and contributing to the expanded cases. Main thing I have seen with this brand is neck tension. It’s not consistent. If it did it every time I may suspect a chamber issue but that’s not the case. I’m going to see if a friend kept any of his empties. Hopefully he has at least 5 or so I can use as a test. Not really pushing it real hard but every rifles different. What brand of brass are you using? Mine is PPU. Just curious if it’s an off brand also. I’ve been searching for 300 win mag brass for a while now with no luck so this project may have to wait a bit.Anyone have any other ideas now that our problem has been narrowed down? Thanks |
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@ 07:46 am (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Weird rem700 boltThe malleability of the brass shouldn’t matter, so long as it springs back for easy extraction. The first time you fire a factory round (or hand-loaded new brass), it will conform to your chamber. If extraction is “normal”, measuring the spent case will give you your chamber’s dimension - or the dimension your reload can’t exceed. If you don’t bump the shoulder when you reload, the case should headspace on the shoulder. If you bump the shoulder, check to see if the case is being distended at the point you’ve identified to be causing the problem. Working with donor brass previously fired in a friend’s rifle seems like more trouble than it’s worth. |
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@ 10:43 am (GMT) |
Mark PalmerRe: Weird rem700 boltHi Scott, definitely want to work this out. I started out FL resizing these cases. Then moved to neck sizing after I had some fired brass. All with this same problem. Does not do it every time but I would say at least 50% of cases. I have not sorted brass yet except the ones I just identified with expanded cases. This project was on hold until I saw this post the other day. Now I would like to square it away. Rifle holds great accuracy around .5 at 100. I would like to rule out any chamber issues due to not every case has a problem. That makes me want to think it’s a brass issue. Just in case I have gotten tunnel vision on this issue, is there other things I should focus on?Thanks |
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@ 02:01 pm (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Weird rem700 boltHi Mark. New brass should be .513 just ahead of the belt. Your problem cases measured .516. The question is, How did they get .003 over spec? When you chamber new brass, the shoulder won’t be touching the shoulder of the chamber because new brass headspaces on the belt. When you fire the round, the case diameter expands to the diameter of your chamber. It also stretches lengthwise so it’s shoulder fits perfectly into the shoulder of the chamber. After it’s fired, the brass springs back some as it cools and contracts. If your chamber diameter just ahead of the belt is .514, or .515, it’s not possible for the brass to to be .516 after firing, no matter how hot the load, or how soft the brass. So, it’s safe to assume it got to .516 in a reloading operation. A full-length die is shoving brass in and down, it has to go somewhere. Some of it seems to be winding up just ahead of the belt. Repeated firings of the brass will cause the brass to lengthen - it has to go somewhere. So you’ll need to trim the cases. But you shouldn’t have to full-length resize. Since you have identified the problem, it’s easy enough for you to check whether your neck sizing operation is creating an issue. |
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@ 02:48 pm (GMT) |
Mark PalmerRe: Weird rem700 boltA little extra information, just measured a friends fired brass in 300 win mag. They all consistently measured .516 above the belt and would re-chamber nicely. My brass measure’s 2 measurements. .512 and .516. The ones that are .516 does not chamber easy even before bolt rotation. Just FL resized a case, measured at .512. Cycled through chamber, normal. Why the two different measurements? Checked a variety of empties from other rifles, all were pretty consistent in measurements. I want to blame brass but maybe I’m pushing it a little too much. That was my first instinct when I measured the expansion. Just don’t see any pressure signs except now that we found the expanded case. Seems like if it was running hot, all brass would be sticky…26” barrel 195gr ELDM @ 2950 fps 208gr ELDM @ 2900 fps My thought process for now is to load more rounds and start separating sticky brass from lot unless there is another course of action I need to take… Again, thanks for the help. |
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@ 03:31 pm (GMT) |
Mark PalmerRe: Weird rem700 boltThanks Scott, If I neck size the sticky (expanded cases) they don’t like to chamber. They have to be FL resized. When shooting, about half of fired cases seem to be sticky on bolt lift. Others are just fine. So, fired cases at .512 re-chamber fine and can be neck sized. Fired cases that measure .516 must be FL resized in order to re-chamber. I’ve been loading a pretty long time now and usually do pretty well figuring things out. This all started from me just assuming certain things and not taking a second to ask myself, are you sure. My gut says slight over pressure. Unless this brass just sucks. I’m like you, shouldn’t be bigger than chamber. I’ve ran into it before though, but it’s a show stopper usually. Shoot, hard bolt lift, fight with getting empty out of chamber...too hot. I’m cautious working around and over book max and have had good success so far. I’m now thinking this is borderline over pressure where it’s affecting some brass but not all. This cheap brass may have weak areas throughout. Neck tension not consistent at all. Hard to work with. Not going to be my go to brass for sure. Just can’t find any good brass for a while now.I would almost put money that with better brass we wouldn’t be having this conversation, however with this cheaper brass, it’s giving way before an actual over pressure… causing me this grief right now. I appreciate the insight and assistance. Thanks |
@ 09:29 pm (GMT) |
Jon ShortRe: Weird rem700 boltHey fellas,I have a 7 RM Remington Long Range that I have had from new, bedded, accurised, load work up etc. I have always had extraction problems here & there with this rifle with Winchester brass. I neck size with Lee dies. Before I continue, I am not too sure if this is relevant or not but this is what I found. - I grease this barrel while stored (live near the sea, barrel is blued not SS) as I don't shoot it as often as I would like or should. - I clean it out before shooting really thoroughly with Brakeclean to remove the grease, which doesn't leave any oily residue behind & dries off fast followed by a few clean patches. - I found that extraction was sticky with the odd stuck case that would not extract no matter how much I cleaned & checked everything, bolt chamber everything. I was beginning to dislike the extractor system... just give me my Howa! - True Flight mentioned that the chamber finish might be a bit rough. Possibly needs a light polish. Hmmm, I wasn't too sure, but certainly, I'm not to impressed with the rifle finish quality with Remington these days. But hey, its the inside that really matters. - I mulled this over & decided to try something different ,as I wondered if the Brakeclean was leaving such a dry surface that it was not helping the case release from what may be a rough chamber. Just a thought. - So, I very lightly oiled the chamber area only with a very light oil (Rem Oil), then clean patched the chamber area to make sure there was no oil of any potential harm in terms of thickness in the area. - I found that I no longer had the extraction issues that I used to have including with one particular case that I had marked as problematic for extraction & reloaded. - I have shot this rile three separate times this year, following the same process each time, & every time, no extraction problems, in fact extraction is strong & reliable, better than it has ever been. No doubt someone will balk at this, but provided the chamber area is clean patched before shooting, I don't see the issue as the small amount of light surface oil left behind is no miniscule you could safely shoot over it even if it were within the rifling. But, it SEEMS to be enough to prevent the case from sticking to the chamber faces. I have a borescope, & have inspected the chamber a number of times, & to my untrained eye, the finish does not look rough compared to other high quality barrel chambers. So, I don't know what the issue is really, but my "work around" seems to work for this particular rifle. Perhaps from an extraction point of view alone, you could give this a try? Lightly oil the chamber with a very light oil, then clean patch the chamber out, then shoot & see if extraction improves. Best of luck, Jon |
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@ 09:31 pm (GMT) |
Jon ShortRe: Weird rem700 boltThat was with some quite tight cases too. Tight when chambered. |
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@ 08:26 am (GMT) |
Mark PalmerRe: Weird rem700 boltThanks Jon. I need to update the status on my issue. Since my brass was expanding just ahead of belt 50% of the time and was pretty consistent with same problem, I checked the headspace. I thought it may have been a borderline pressure issue or brass problem but no, it wasn’t. Headspace was out right at .005. Ordered new bolt assembly from Pacific tool with M16 style extractor. Minor fitting to set headspace, maybe 30 minutes total. Shot it this past weekend with same loads and brass. Problem gone, extracted great. Shot great. $244 (US) with a bolt handle and shipping. That’s with a military discount. Didn’t think that was too bad, hate I had to do it in the first place but I’m satisfied with it now.Thanks everyone, Mark |
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@ 08:26 am (GMT) |
Mark PalmerRe: Weird rem700 boltThanks Jon. I need to update the status on my issue. Since my brass was expanding just ahead of belt 50% of the time and was pretty consistent with same problem, I checked the headspace. I thought it may have been a borderline pressure issue or brass problem but no, it wasn’t. Headspace was out right at .005. Ordered new bolt assembly from Pacific tool with M16 style extractor. Minor fitting to set headspace, maybe 30 minutes total. Shot it this past weekend with same loads and brass. Problem gone, extracted great. Shot great. $244 (US) with a bolt handle and shipping. That’s with a military discount. Didn’t think that was too bad, hate I had to do it in the first place but I’m satisfied with it now.Thanks everyone, Mark |
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