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Forum Index > Rifles general discussion > Case Capacities (H2O)

Case Capacities (H2O)

03 Feb 2019
@ 02:22 pm (GMT)

Paul Leverman

I've never really concerned myself over this. Apparently, it can give an indication of what could or might be expected for the performance of the loaded cartridge.

I did some google-ing to see if there was any worthwhile information out there. What I got back just confused the hell out of me, so now I turn to all of you to straighten out what's left of my mind.

The scenario is this: I had three cases on the bench. A .308Win, a 7X57 . and a 30-'06. Interesting brothers from the same mother. On a whim, I necked the 7mm up to .308 to see what it would look like. Surprisingly it looked like it should have been a 30 cal all along. Another errant neuron connection got me to wondering how the case volumes related to each other. After I got my numbers, I hit the google button to see if I was on track.

This is where it all went south. I found sources that said the 7X57AI had less capacity than it's original form. Another source said the 308W and the 7mm were within 1.3 gr of water. None of this made sense. How could a case that is considerably smaller have almost identical internal capacity? Maybe really thick brass in the 7mm? Then there's the case where you take the taper out, blow the shoulder angle forward and lessen the capacity.

Am I being stunned here, or what? This is not what I found in my measurements at all.

If anyone out there is willing, could you post the water capacity of your 7X57, and if you have one, of your AI. Please don't use "net" information, I'm after real, physical measurements.

Thanks for any help in this.


Ironically, the anti-spam characters for this post are "psi"

Replies

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03 Feb 2019
@ 05:21 pm (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: Case Capacities (H2O)
Paul Brother in arms! Take your 3 brotherly cases 308, 7x57 and 30-06 and fill them all full of the same powder. Then get your scales and weigh the powder that's in each of the cases. I'm thinking that the difference in the weights of each of the cases powder will be the answer to your question. If you want a more accurate answer then you'll have to fill each case to the same point in the bottom of the case necks to allow for the projectile in the case also remember the Max COAL throat length might limit the volume of powder you can get in these cases? Why use water for a powder volume measurement? It's like using petrol to test the volume of a water tank?
In saying that I'm thinking that the type (ball or stick) and volume of air with the powder and how the powder column is lit by the primer must have some effect. For example shooting directly up powder sitting on top of the primer hole as to down powder sitting on base of bullet with air gap to primer flash hole....[a mute point with compressed loads of course].......will have some difference in performance?
Errrrr!
Paul..... Hopefully your not more confussed than before lol. They do say " Don't ask a question"... until your prepared to hear all and any of the possible answers....... I'm sure that some smart educated fellow will have the answers if my supposing's are wrong.....


03 Feb 2019
@ 05:58 pm (GMT)

Bob Mavin

Re: Case Capacities (H2O)
Hi Paul

The 7x57 has a capacity of 60.2gns H2O lit's loaded to 57000psi
308 56gns H2) but it's loaded to 62000 psi

I suppose some of the old 7x57 actions aren't as strong as modern 308's

My mate shoots a 284 winchester in a modern action, it's a nice caliber

03 Feb 2019
@ 06:08 pm (GMT)

Bob Mavin

Re: Case Capacities (H2O)
The 284 necked up to 308 is a good caliber too. My gunsmith mate has made a fair few now, very similar to a 30-06 in a short action.

I just use my 308 Winchester for hunting, knocks them over without heaps of damage to me or the meat :)[b]
03 Feb 2019
@ 06:13 pm (GMT)

Bob Mavin

Re: Case Capacities (H2O)
I forgot to mention, the 284W has 66.2 gns H2O capacity. A bit more necked to 30 cal
03 Feb 2019
@ 11:39 pm (GMT)

Mike R

Re: Case Capacities (H2O)
There’s so many variables they should be only taken as a guide. For my improved case, Remington gives the most case capacity at 67.3gr H2O, federal cases are next at 66.1, PPU are last at 65.3.
Case weight wise Remington are lightest @164gr Federals are 173gr PPU are 180gr. Then there’s whether or not the cases are full length resized or just neck sized. How many times the case has been fired the neck slowly lengthens every time. My necks are only .270-.280 at the moment growing at .002 per resizing. I don’t think I’ll ever have to trim them before they have to be junked
03 Feb 2019
@ 11:41 pm (GMT)

Michael Rayner

Re: Case Capacities (H2O)
My 303 improved
04 Feb 2019
@ 06:52 am (GMT)

Paul Leverman

Re: Case Capacities (H2O)
Hey all. Thanks. As I suspected, most info from the net should be taken with a grain of salt and only used as a basis for more in depth investigation.

Bob, your numbers were virtually identical to what I found in my cases. Another case of real vs. net.

I have a keg of junk powder (all mixed types) that I use for pyrotechnic displays. I'll use this a measuring tool instead of wasting good powder, and it's only for comparison ratio anyway.

04 Feb 2019
@ 10:15 am (GMT)

Bob Mavin

Re: Case Capacities (H2O)
You could weigh the case fill with water and weigh again?
04 Feb 2019
@ 10:15 am (GMT)

Bob Mavin

Re: Case Capacities (H2O)
You could weigh the case fill with water and weigh again?
04 Feb 2019
@ 10:23 am (GMT)

Paul Leverman

Re: Case Capacities (H2O)
Using the WM measurement method, got the numbers I needed to make a rough comparison. Turns out the people that designed the .308Win knew what they were doing. So, back to the drawing board and find something else to turn into something else.

For those that are interested:

.308Win capacity* =44.9gr

.30/7mm capacity* = 47.0gr

*cases were once fired, neck sized, filled with non-descript powder of dubious origin (for comparison purposes only)

For the 5% increase in case volume, not worth pursuing.

09 Feb 2019
@ 12:46 pm (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: Case Capacities (H2O)
hi Paul
the lines around capacity even more blurred when you look at things like the rsaum calibers, because of how psi work these calibers seem to shoot beyond what their capacity should.
they are high pressured to begin with to
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