|
|
|
Discussion Forums
Forum Index
> Rifles general discussion
> 308 Win vs 6.5 Creed vs 6.5 Grendel
308 Win vs 6.5 Creed vs 6.5 Grendel
@ 03:59 pm (GMT) |
steel worksUsing a light weight large frame AR or a small frame AR using a 16 inch barrel, what would an American use to eradicate (pest control) feral pigs/deer out to a distance of 450-500 yards. I've had great success using a 308 Win 155gr amax projectiles on fallow deer. |
Replies
|
@ 11:08 pm (GMT) |
steel worksRe: 308 Win vs 6.5 Creed vs 6.5 GrendelNathan please excuse my above post, I have now read your disdain regarding slow smaller bore calibers. However I'm interested in your opinion with those fortunate enough to use a AR for culling particularly using a 16 inch barrel in 308 Win or 6.5 Creedmoor. Is the 6.5 Creedmoor just another fad gamers caliber or is it a relevant hunting alternative at realistic hunting (pigs/deer) distances? |
@ 06:30 am (GMT) |
Thomas KitchenRe: 308 Win vs 6.5 Creed vs 6.5 Grendelhi steel worksthe 6.5 creedmoor is very much a fad but it does have some uses. as you go to smaller bores your more reliant on velocity. you run into few problems with the rifle you mention, a 16 inch barrel limits you a fair bit. second is magazine length, 500 yards is starting to get out there bit more where projectile choice is more critical but trying to fit a decent long range projectile into an AR mag becomes a problem. stick with the 308, maybe experiment with the 168 amax or tmk's you might even have to loose the tips to make them work. i would love to see AR's offered in 358 win which would probably fit the magazine a lot better then other rounds |
@ 09:23 am (GMT) |
Martin TaylorRe: 308 Win vs 6.5 Creed vs 6.5 GrendelWe cant have AR's or semi autos here in OZ anymore so not sure on rifle specifics but calibre and goat culling we can do.Thomas is spot on, that 16" barrel in semi auto really leaves the 308 with a suitable pill a step ahead at the ranges you have listed on game. I don't believe the Creedmoor is a fad cartridge anymore, it has been purposely designed to feed in a 71mm mag with its shorter case design and OAL. It is being chambered by every manufacturer and performing very well with the great pills/factory loads offered. If you could run a longer barrel it may still be an option. I wouldn't hesitate to knock goats over at 500 yards with an Amax or TMK with placement & longer barrel to up the velocity. |
@ 09:38 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: 308 Win vs 6.5 Creed vs 6.5 GrendelHi there, I understand that a lot of folk could or would like to make arguements for the smaller caliber. factors such as cost, lower recoil, flatter trajectory etc. Most of it is bullshit, especially recoil.I like pigs, I have a high degree of respect for them. I have spent a great deal of time in the hills observing them, getting close to them and following their habits through the seasons. We have also raised our own pigs. The 6.5 is my recommended minimum for these animals based on the shield thickness of the Sus Scrofa genetics and general tenacity of the species. To be clear, the 6.5 is not my recommendation, it is my recommended minimum, there is a difference. The 6.5 has a limited range of bullet options, the .308 does not. Culling brings about other factors. For example, a culler may have less care towards the animal, whether he is the hunter or some do-gooder environmentalist sitting in an office in a city sending out culling orders. Either may put cost ahead of speed of killing. One could very easily just use a 5.56 and state that as long as the bullet penetrates, the pig will die one way or another. True enough, but very callous. There are actually a couple of useful 5.56 loads for the AR that do work OK on pigs, but you have to know what you are doing and what limitations to expect. I have described these loads in the Cartridges book, second ed, along with plenty of photos. But really, why muck around. If you have a good .308, use it. Just keep in mind that your 155gr load may explode on caked mud. The slight increase in weight and SD of the 168gr load combined with a reduction in velocity eliminates this issue. In any case, I never put BC's ahead of terminal performance. The .308 is an excellent cartridge for culling all manner of game. I have put the low down for extended range killing in the Cartridges book. Now to some really poor info. A while ago, before we had the studio set up, I made a rough vid for various hunting groups who needed a game killing primer. It really is a poor quality vid but you will get to see the 6.5 struggle in one of the scenes. I don't much like to read from a script, I prefer to work in real time, hands on. But this did not really work with this style of video. The link is below, I will most likely remove it shortly: https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=1PV-LgloYl8 |
|
@ 09:40 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: 308 Win vs 6.5 Creed vs 6.5 GrendelAnd yes, 16" adds further issues. |
|
@ 11:24 am (GMT) |
Martin TaylorRe: 308 Win vs 6.5 Creed vs 6.5 Grendelmmmmmmm, somehow managed to get culling goats out to 500 in my pea brain for some reason?Stick with the 308w 168 combo, which is a trusted, proven, go-to load for many of us on here!! |
|
@ 11:40 am (GMT) |
steel worksRe: 308 Win vs 6.5 Creed vs 6.5 GrendelThank you guys for your response, unfortunately I live in Australia and am subject to firearm laws that defies comprehension. I have 41 years experience shooting/hunting/studying ballistics, at present I am researching the increase use of the 6.8 SPC,6.5 Grendel and 6.5 Creedmoor in culling feral pigs in Texas. I'm of the opinion they would be better served using a large frame AR in 308 Win and I wanted to see if I am on the same page as some other more informed hunters.Referring to the Precision Blog it's clear to see the rise of the 6.5's and now 6mm's, and for it's intended use game shooting (steel/paper) it makes sense however for hunting applications I don't see any advantage over a 30 cal. or larger. Again thanks for your comments. |
|
@ 07:57 pm (GMT) |
steel worksRe: 308 Win vs 6.5 Creed vs 6.5 GrendelI've just received The Practical Guide To Long Range... Second Edition book, it's a good read and has answered my question. A large frame AR in 308 Win with a 16 inch barrel using factory Hornady Tap 168 ELD-M should have around 1700 fps @ 500 yards, considering the vast majority of shots would be well under that distance a Texas Hog control person would be well served. |
|
@ 08:46 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: 308 Win vs 6.5 Creed vs 6.5 GrendelA nice conclusion. Thanks for the kind feedback Steel Works.While we are on this topic, I spent a great deal of time talking to Texans while in the U.S a few months ago. I know there are a number of guys culling in Texas with the 5.56 and that it has gained popularity. I made sure I included research in the current Cartridges book to cover this. When we visited SHOT, I was keen to talk one on one with folk about their individual experiences, a refreshing change from internet meanderings. It was good to see Texans talking about liking a cartridge with punch. A couple of folk also talked about finishing off pigs shot by other hunters with new 'pip squeek' cartridges. Texans don't normally do things by halves so prior to this, it did seem odd that some would then cut their cartridge power in half, then rave about performance. My happy conclusion was that Texans are fortunately still Texans and that what is said via the internet versus what is actually happening on the ground are often two very different things. |
Please wait
ABOUT USWe are a small, family run business, based out of Taranaki, New Zealand, who specialize in cartridge research and testing, and rifle accurizing.
|
KNOWLEDGEBASE |
KNOWLEDGEBASE |