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Rem 700 sendero bolt (problems?)

25 Dec 2013
@ 08:10 pm (GMT)

Alvaro Piqueras Alonso-Lamberti

Hi all;

I´m worried about my bolt. Rifle is a rem 700 sendero, chambered in 300 wm. Just about 45 rounds through it, breaking the barrel as Nathan described in his article. About 20 factory rounds, and some reloads using 208 amax and RWS once-fired, full sized brass.

I have occasional problems cycling the bolt: the bolt raises esy, but it´s difficult just to initiate the movement to extract the case. This only happen a few times, all the powder charges being the same (no hot load).

I have no problems with my shellholders while reloading, but a close inspection of he case rim show some marks produced during manufacturing (?) or the first shot (bought the brasses used). The bolt face shows some brass burrs, as you can see in the photos.

But i´m more worried about the bolt... I see some defects and want to know if they are normal or abnormal. I bought the rifle new, so can ask to be repaired or returned.

Will try to explain the best i can, but for sure, the images speak for themselves, and of course better than me! (Note: I clean the bolt with a paper towel, so you can see some paper fibers)

A flattened rough spot in the out side of the bolt head, wich protrudes a little over the head. Lugs that seem to need to be lapped (few contact area).

The rifle didn´t perform as well as i spect (some double grups -don´t attributable to the scope mount- and 1,25 MOA groups), but i´m starting tests (haven´t checked speeds as i forget to bring the chrono to the range). I´m also training myself holding that forearm! :)

Any advice or opinion will be appreciated. I can post more photos or descriptions if needed.

Thanks in advance!


1 2
27 Mar 2014
@ 10:49 pm (GMT)

Alvaro Piqueras Alonso-Lamberti

Re: Rem 700 sendero bolt (problems?)
Hi all!

First of all, thank you very much for your help and consideration:

- Les, thanks for writing that mail
- Jason, in fact, that seem similar to my issues. Fortunatly, I haven´t time to do any job to the rifle yet (bedding, lapping,...). Borchers is the only importer/aproved gunsmith from remington here in Spain.
- Chris, you didn´t hijack nothing! The more info on the forum, the best. Please keep us posted how does your rifle performs after that jobs.
- Joshua, that will be an option, but expensive and, over all, unfair! I want the rifle that y payed for. Also, rechambering mean less barrel lenght...
- Gregg, I have no idea about that... But, for sure, there are some GREAT old guns. For example, I have a sako finnbear (no bedding, no trigger job, no floated barrel) that shoots better than many modern rifles, and it shoots everything well, factory or handloads...
- Martin, I agree with you, but till today, I have no answer from remington...!!!
- Johnny, don´t worry about it. That´s what I was expecting when I get the rifle. In fact, that was Nathan´s fault, because he says nothing except good things in his first book. Just kidding (XD). I think (Nathan can correct me if i´m wrong) that it will be better if you bed the rifle BEFORE load refining. Maybe the bed changes some harmonics, and you have to refining again...
- Nathan, the last but not the less important... First of all, thanks again for your help. If i can´t get it fixed, it will be a pleasure to polish the chamber following your instructions. If i ruin it, it will bcome a 300RUM, so no problems with that!

Ok, so after that, let me explain how thing go...

I have no answer from remington... still waiting, but will send they another mail tomorrow (now it´s 3:10 am in spain...). Didn´t expect that, but that´s exactly what happen.

On the other side, the importer answer me on monday at 9 am (a few hours after my mail to remington). They told me that they have send the rifle to a professional shotter to test it, because they want to be sure that I get satisfied. After laughing a lot, I ask them WHY they do that, considering that they told me that there are nothing more they can do and that they proceed to send the rifle back. We change one or two more mails, but they never gave me a decent answer.

Four days ago, they emailed me. The professional have done his job, and they gave me a bunch of super-important info:

Ammo: Vortx TTSX 180
Distance: 100 m
Scope: Bushnell ELITE 4200 2,5-10x50
Mounts: WARNE
Temperature: 17ºC
Wind: 12 Km/h.

They attached an amazing resolution scan of a super-hyper-professional target, wich is supposed to show what my rifle is capable to do (the word "prueba" under the flyer (?) means "test"):

After a lot more of laughing (laughing is usually better than crying) I asked myself... And what about the group? 1MOA? 2MOA? OK, I know that there was a good day at the range (17º celsius), with 12 km/h wind blowing from somewhere, but nothing about the group. The mail said, literally:

"The groups are acceptable for a hunting rifle. The professional opinion, the same as ours, is that, considering the 1:10 twist, using bigger weight bullets (btween 190 and 200 grains), will noticeably improve accuracy. We proceed to send the rifle"

I wrote them a last mail, a few less polite, asking they if the consider that i´m stupid. Ask them about objective facts about groups, because "The groups are acceptable for a hunting rifle" is quite subjective. Also tell them something abut twists and copper bullets.

After all, they told me it was 3,7 cm group. That´s, if I´m OK, 1,33 MOA.

I haven´t mailed them again. So tired. Will try to get some from remington.

At least, a good new to end with some sweet taste... the rifle is back in the gun store (600 km away, but will get it back).

That´s all for the moment. Once again, thank you for your help!

27 Mar 2014
@ 11:34 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Rem 700 sendero bolt (problems?)
I think we can nail this if the rifle comes back and you are unable to gain further help.

Much of a joke indeed. Acceptable for a hunting rifle- your rifle is a precision long range rifle.

The professional target is hand scribbled?

The professional shooter used a bipod free hand by the look of it. I have to spend a great deal of time observing client groupings and studying trends. I have a feeling there was an element of poor (unprofessional) technique here- lack of experience with magnums. He may also have had trouble with eye relief versus recoil and suffered parallax issues as a result. To this end, I think we may be able to DIY this job as I can see some potential in the target. The muzzle burr may also be at fault but we can address this when you are ready.

01 May 2014
@ 08:19 pm (GMT)

Alvaro Piqueras Alonso-Lamberti

Re: Rem 700 sendero bolt (problems?)
Hi all.

I have the new chapter of this never ending story. I have good and bad news, but maybe starting to see a light at the end of the tunnel...

It´s so embarrasing to say, but maybe I have made some mistakes, forgetting to consider some variables, but at the end this could mean good news.

First of all, I have the rifle back. The gun store tell me they have the rifle, and I was planning a trip to Madrid, so I started to think what to do. Thinking about reloads (as the importer says they have no extractions issues), I realized that I´m using RWS brass, famous because of their thick brass (causing few case capacity). I have some other 300WM brass, so I take 20 R-P cases and load it with the AMAX and less powder than the others.

Back to the range, with the rifle and the chrono (the day I have the problems, forget the "PC" unit at home), and test the loads.

The new "soft" load (68 gr TU8000), 208 AMAX @2690, put 5 shots into .86 MOA at 100 m, without problems with the bolt (i fired the 20 rounds without problems).

Testing the RWS loads give me groups over a MOA, and quite high speeds. The first one, (69 gr TU8000) between 2840 and 2891, the second one (71 TU8000), between 2895 and 2945, nice kick LOL!! (speeds raise up with heat barrel). I have two extraction problems with this 10 shots.

SO: As I have said, that´s quite embarrasing, but I think that the extractions problems could be my fault. My apologizes! I think that the thick case walls of the RWS cases can maximize the problem, getting even higer pressures and contracting less after the shot...

I will try other loads with the RWS brass, but maybe it´s a good idea to change the brass to WW or RP.

I don´t want to be boring, but i´m still waiting for a reply from remington. Borchers (the importer) will do nothing (maybe better!). The crown still damaged. A new problem appear, as my rifle is afected by the recall about problems with the trigger (It will be nice if they send me a tymney or jewell with their reply...).

Nathan, I´m ready to do what you say. I´m thinking that, after all, I can get a good rifle! Match grade is ready to bed it, the crown is waiting for a fix, and the trigger will be replaced...

Thank you all for your interest and help!

02 May 2014
@ 04:22 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Rem 700 sendero bolt (problems?)
Hi Alvaro, thank you so much for coming forwards with this information. A less humble person would hide this information.

It is hard to call it a mistake per say. It is definitely more of a learning experience. While we are on this subject, another brand of brass to watch for is Prvi (sold in NZ as Highland ammo). This, in certain chamberings, can suffer heavy case sidewalls but at the same time is a very soft brass. Primary extraction problems are not uncommon during load work, regardless of which type of action you use. The brass can flow before primers flatten. It sounds like your .300 RWS brass is performing in a similar manner Alvaro.

So from this point on, the crown should not be a major problem. This can be remedied by either taking the rifle to a reputable machine shop (the do not need to be gunsmiths) and asking them to recrown the rifle. Another option is to purchase a piloted crowning tool directly from the Us. Pacific Tool and Gauge and yes, they will send to your address without customs problems at your end. Another option is Dave Manson's Muzzle Crown Refacing Tool Kit. This comes with instructions and there is also a youtube video for help. No special tools are needed to use this kit. Dave is a wonderful person to talk to and unknown to me for a long time until recently, has been a fan of this website. The crowning tool kit could be used on multiple rifles so it is a very good investment. Any of this type of tooling can simply be declared as machine tooling during export.

You may find that the Remington trigger recall does not effect your country. It is not present in NZ as our arms code implicitly places responsibility on the firearm owner. In other words, if you are pointing a rifle in a dangerous direction and the rifle discharges accidentally, it is the fault of the shooter- not Remington. It is a very good law and saves a great deal of potential litigation. Its also a win for Remington as in reality, there is only a 1:200,000,000 chance of a trigger being effected. It is bad enough that they have to chase this problem with such low odds within the U.S, without having to chase it up worldwide.

It sounds as though you are very close to success now. If you can, please try to obtain WW brass.
25 Sep 2014
@ 06:14 pm (GMT)

Alvaro Piqueras Alonso-Lamberti

Re: Rem 700 sendero bolt (problems?)
Hi all;

Let me update this thread, FWIW.

The rifle is performing, at least, well. I have put plenty of work in the rifle, following Nathan´s books. It has been bedded with Matchgrade bedding compound, lugs lapped, optics fit, barrel mantained as best as I can.

Get some H4831sc, a bit fast, but it was the best I can get. Pushing 208 amax at 2870fps. I can improve my reloads a bit, just waiting to get some extra stuff.

I have a pair of questions, in order to end the set up of the rifle, until I can get it blueprinted (after burn the factory barrel).

I have get in contact with a good machine shop. They can recut the crown, but I want to know the better way to do it. Of course, I will try to remove the minimum lenght of barrel. The factory crown has 11 degree cut, but theintersection with the bore has a very small cut, more or less at 45 degree. Should I copy this cut? Or just let it al 11?. What is the optimal width of the flat (0 degree) surface, in the outside of the muzzle? In other words, the more 11degree cut, the better?

I have a new pair of zee rings waiting to be mounted. Bases have been epoxyed to the action with no problems. But when it comes to level the rifle (so then you can level the scope) I have some troubles... I think this is very important, because you can input windage errors when dialing up if the scope was canted.

I have the rifle siting in my bench. Than I attached some bubble levels, over the forward and rear bases, and over the action (between the bases). Each one indicates different cants. No big differences, but definetly there are some discrepancies. Considering only the bases, you can see the differences here:

Wich "flat" reference do you use to set up the cant of the scope? Maybe, assuming there could be another discrepancies (bore to acion misalignment, for example), the only way to do is mount the scope and test fire at 100 yds, dialing up and looking at the paper for error.

The trigger recall finally affected Spain. I have a nice pair of new X-shit triggers waiting for be binned. LOL

Thanks for the help!
25 Sep 2014
@ 06:59 pm (GMT)

Alvaro Piqueras Alonso-Lamberti

Re: Rem 700 sendero bolt (problems?)

Here is the photo:

25 Sep 2014
@ 11:38 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Rem 700 sendero bolt (problems?)
Hi Alvaro, the chamfer in the barrel you talk about is just that- a chamfer to clean up burrs after cutting.

The easiest set up for any gun shop is a simple recessed target crown. face off the muzzle, then come in a few mm, then cut in and face off again (multiple cuts. The last cuts need to be very fine. Then finish with emery paper if you don't want a chamfer or apply a chamfer- just a very light touch of the tool.

This work should all be done by eye, feel and common sense and without measuring tools. Example: if you push emery hard against the muzzle, it will grind the edge of exit of the bore. Not good. Eye, feel, common sense.

Many folk have the false impression that all things machine shop are solved with measuring tools. But sometimes a measuring tool is a hindrance because people then switch off their brains.

Now- as for the scope. You can do this by eye too. I described this in book 3. You have no way of knowing whether your bubbles are actually set true in their housings. Refer to the book, keep the rifle at arms length, plenty of rest breaks. Do not look at the recoil pad as this may be crooked. Look at the action, the bases- take in the whole picture- but don't give your eyes time to adjust and make things appear as they are not. Its like when you drop the kids off at school, you just have a quick look at the mums, then look away, then look back again, then away. You don't want to be caught oggling huh. Anyway- go back to the book, look at crowns and look at scope mounting.
04 Oct 2014
@ 04:18 am (GMT)

Chris McKoy

Re: Rem 700 sendero bolt (problems?)
Hi Alvaro, sounds like you have had quite the run around, I also went down the same road, albeit with slight different results.

- The burr on the bolt edge is because the new pin system creates a high point, this I have found disperses with time, I have had no further work done to the bolt face etc in terms of extractor etc.

- I gave up on my sendero factory barrel shortly after I made my post here and replaced it with a truflite ultramatch. The difference was AMAZING, it shoots everything and anything well under 1moa. Current load out is 162 AMAX with 70gr of 2213sc @ 3250fps. I know this doesn't help you much, I really think remington needed to come to the party with this more.
06 Oct 2014
@ 12:44 am (GMT)

Martin Taylor

Re: Rem 700 sendero bolt (problems?)
Hi Alvaro,

Great to see that you are getting somewhere with this rifle.

You can use the bubble levels, but you first need to calibrate/true them to each other on a flat, solid piece of steel (so the magnets hold). Check the larger bubble reads the same when turned 180 degrees. Now sit the small bubble next to it & check that it also reads the same. You may have to turn the small bubble around 180 degrees to find a its matched reading. If the bubbles line up clearly mark the front side on each, this is now your orientation that they must always be used in, a matched pair.
You can re-mark the glass with a fine permanent marker if they will not line up, but they should.

Now you can use them to true your scope. Fit the larger (rear bubble in your picture) into the ejection port with the magnetic base sitting flat on top the bolt race, with the bubble outside. This is a fixed, true point to measure from, unlike the scope bases. I had to file the side of the plastic on mine so it would clear the receiver wall & opening. The magnetic base must sit flush on the race, check by looking from the rear of the receiver. Now the small bubble can be sat on top of the turret to set the scope level.

If that is hard to follow, l will take a photo tonight of mine and post it.
l then do a final check using Nathans instructions, just don’t get sucked in by the stock & pad shape as Nathan has already said.
06 Oct 2014
@ 11:34 pm (GMT)

Martin Taylor

Re: Rem 700 sendero bolt (problems?)
here is what l ended up with Alvaro!

01 Nov 2014
@ 07:12 pm (GMT)

Alvaro Piqueras Alonso-Lamberti

Re: Rem 700 sendero bolt (problems?)
Thanks all...

Still waiting to get the muzzle re-crowned...

Hope to post comments, results and more soon...

04 Nov 2014
@ 08:40 pm (GMT)

Alvaro Piqueras Alonso-Lamberti

Re: Rem 700 sendero bolt (problems?)
Another step done!

Finally, I get the rifle recrowned. Following Nathan´s advice, we use sense and feel instead of measuring tools. Fresh crown cutted at 11 degree, a touch in front to make a flat surface to protect, and two touches inside the bore and outside the barrel to deburr. The machinist (?) followed my instructions. Just a few scratches outside the barrel to be sorry about, but a bill far less expensive than a gunsmith, so everibody happy (no gunsmiths round here to do that job, just the ones who sells ammo, clothes and brand new rifles... just storekeepers).

Tomorrow it´s time for the optics. Now it´s great to know that, if someone caught me oggling, I can tell that I´m just training my skills to mount optics. Everibody will trust that excuse! Thanks Nathan! ;)

Hope to post a good group here soon... Or, far better, something with four legs lying down!

21 Dec 2014
@ 05:35 pm (GMT)

Alvaro Piqueras Alonso-Lamberti

Re: Rem 700 sendero bolt (problems?)
It seem that things start to go on right!

Six shot group (3, let the barrel cool, another 3), one flyer on the right that was my fault (so, no worries!). 5 shots in 0,343 MOA!! 178 amax, loaded at 2967. A bit high ES and SD, but I´m really pleased to see that all the effort has make sense!!

Test a friend´s load with Sierra RN 220, as he wan´t to have an idea about speed. 3 shots in 0,62 moa (2650 fps). Test a mild load with 180 SST (no load workup) at 2800, 0,624 MOA for 4 shots. Both loads vertically centered, as with the 178 amax.

220 sierra RN

180 SST

Thanks to you all, specially to Nathan! Seem that the rifle want to shoot!!

I have norma brass and 208 amax coming home, and some vihta N165 here. Can´t wait to start tests to get a final load!
21 Dec 2014
@ 06:05 pm (GMT)

Martin Taylor

Re: Rem 700 sendero bolt (problems?)
Great news Alvaro!

I have said many times the "Remington's are dimonds in the ruff" & need need to be finished off!!!

It's been a long road for you but now you have a great shooter to work with. Have fun.
24 Dec 2014
@ 06:02 am (GMT)

Jason Yozzi

Re: Rem 700 sendero bolt (problems?)
Hi all
Yep add another sendero to that list. I have a sendero 2 in 300rum and have the same extraction problems you guys are all talking about. Bolt Handel lifts easy but can't be pulled back. I guess it's not happening all the time , let me rephrase that. Some times after firing it is impossible to open , to the point where you have to tap the bolt Handel open. One thing that helped very very much was anealling my brass and that made a huge difference. Before annealing I actually had the extractor jump the case rim and needed to tap the case out with a cleaning rod. Funny thing was the slightest tap from the cleaning rod and the brass fell out on the floor. After annealing if the bolt is not easy to extract I just open it a little firmer. I also had the drag marks along the entire case length. It was caused from sharp edges that hold the case in the mag. Strip the rifle down and carefully polished the two edges so they were more rounded off as they were sharp like a knife edge. I also polished the feed ramp. Those of you who know the 300rum know the feeding and extraction issues the 300 rum can have.

It sounds like a bad batch of senderos or maybe remington lowering their quality control.

In W.A it will cost you a small fortune for a smith and the best part of a few months it have it sorted I think we are the ass of the world, it took me 8 month to get the rifle ,another 2 months to get it licenced, then another 6 months to get brass. So there was know way I was sending it any where. In short by the time I fired the rifle it was out of warranty.
Just my expearance that I thought I would share for guys having issues and also guys buying new guns and what to look fore
Have a safe and merry Christmas and happy new year to Nathan and family and all the rest of our fellow shooters
28 Dec 2014
@ 05:32 am (GMT)

Alvaro Piqueras Alonso-Lamberti

Re: Rem 700 sendero bolt (problems?)
Hi Jason;

Sorry to hear about that. I have some truobles like this because i was running quite high loads. When you said the case pull back easy with the cleaning rod, I think about the case colling during the gap, and contrating. So maybe you have the same problem. Are you getting high speeds? Try to download your reloads a bit if you think this have sense.

If not, I´m sure Nathan can guide you to polish the chamber (pease DO NOT try to do it using steel wool). If I remember right, the way to do that is with a fired case and polishing compound.

Hope you can get the rifle to shot right!
28 Dec 2014
@ 05:39 am (GMT)

Alvaro Piqueras Alonso-Lamberti

Re: Rem 700 sendero bolt (problems?)
OK... finally get the rifle out and get some luck!

Very happy with the result! Longest shot till that day was 190 meters (209 yd). I doubled that distance, getting this roe doe at 385 m (423 yd). The POI was a little high, the 178 amax drop it in its tracks (just below the spine).

I feel very confident taking the shot. Will put distance further when I can. Very very happy, that was the first hunting shot after a lot of time and work. Thank you guys!

PS: Jim! Be carefoul! I´m just 700 yd behind your record LOL!!!
28 Dec 2014
@ 10:52 am (GMT)

Jason Yozzi

Re: Rem 700 sendero bolt (problems?)
Hi Alvaro

My loads are 300 run loads. I'm loading the 208 grain Amax at about
3150fps. It's shooting about 1/2 groups at 100 yards, but I haven't finished
Tweeting my loads yet. At this stage my ES is a bit high @60fs so I'm working on that. When my brass is new/soft I dint have many issues the extraction issues become more apparent as brass work hardens but anelling appears to have solved that issue. I'm not realy getting any pressure signs and I'm still under max load but not much.

Like you I was disappointed a little with the rifle, but I know I got great stock and action for a custom build as the barrel I only good for around 600 shots with the rum.
I'm glad to hear you got your rifle sorted out and it's working great for you.
Nice shot too, keep up the good work.
Regards Jason
28 Dec 2014
@ 01:53 pm (GMT)

Alvaro Piqueras Alonso-Lamberti

Re: Rem 700 sendero bolt (problems?)
Thank you Jason! I will try to get a good load with the 208 and push ranges further.

What brass are you using? F/l or neck sizing?

Varying neck tension and seating depth can help you with your ES. Good luck![b]
28 Dec 2014
@ 04:22 pm (GMT)

Jim Moseley

Re: Rem 700 sendero bolt (problems?)
Great shooting Alvaro! Hard work and perseverance has won the day. Something tells me you'll be catching up with me quickly!
29 Dec 2014
@ 10:25 am (GMT)

Jason Yozzi

Re: Rem 700 sendero bolt (problems?)
Hey Alvaro

I'm using Redding master hunter die set full length resizing but only pushing the shoulder back about 3 thou smalle than my chamber.
I have a great little gauge from Larry wills in the USA. It's only about $100 but one of the best tools in my opinion. The gauge lets me measure the fired brass, then I resize and recheck I the gauge and set my dies when I get to how far I want to bump the shoulder back. I have actually found out a lot about my dies with this its a great little tool.

As for brass I'm using Australia manufactured brass by Bertram, firstly because it's ben the only brass I can get my hands on. Secondly I have read great reports of guys using it in the USA. As far as I'm aware they are the only people to make(factory) brass for the 338 edge. There getting 10 plus reloadings out of a pice of brass and I think it is pretty reasonable priced.
I have just got some 300rum Norma brass but are yet to test it, I know Norma make the nosler brass and have read it can be a little soft and not much good after 3 or 4 reloadings but I will be sure to keep you posted.
15 Apr 2015
@ 09:47 pm (GMT)

Alvaro Piqueras Alonso-Lamberti

Re: Rem 700 sendero bolt (problems?)
Hi all;

Hey Jason, any news with your load development?

I have a trip to the range today... pretty happy with the results!!

Finally assemble some rounds using my new norma brass, VV N165 and 208 AMAXs! Didn´t find good references on the net (and VV load data seem to be a bit on the safe side).

So I decide to fireform brass while testing speeds with N165.

1- 69 @ 2677
2- 70 @ 2702 (25 fps more)
3- 71 @ 2755 (53 fps more)
4- 71,5 @ ? (reading error)
5- 72 @ 2771
6- 72,5 @ 2791 (20 fps more)
7- 73 @ 2811 (20 fps more)
8- 73,5 @ 2819 (8 fps more)
9- 74 @ 2851 (32 fps more)
10- 74,5 @ 2852 (11 fps more)
11- 75 @ 2870 (8 fps more)

The best of this development was:

Shots 1, 2 and 3 were 0.243 MOA

Shots 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 were 0.49 MOA (shots 1 to 8 measures 0.62 MOA)

All shots together were just below a MOA! And the max dispersion was vertical between shots 1 and 11.

(The three shots on the left, out of the group, are #9, 10 and 11)

This rifle shoots!
15 Apr 2015
@ 09:51 pm (GMT)

Alvaro Piqueras Alonso-Lamberti

Re: Rem 700 sendero bolt (problems?)
Can´t edit... and maybe my explanation is not clear...

Left photo: shots 1, 2 and 3.

Right photo: 4 to 11. (the three on the left are 9 -below-, 10 -middle- and 11 -up-)

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