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Forum Index > Rifles general discussion > Light .270 loads - Which projectile?

Light .270 loads - Which projectile?

07 Jul 2016
@ 10:01 pm (GMT)

Paul Yates

If you wanted to load up some .270 Winchester rounds for a combination of low(er) recoil but good/great killing performance within 150 yards, which projectile would you choose?

I'd like to keep recoil down around 13 ft.lbs in a ~7lbs. rifle. I can do this with a 150gr projectile and a M.V. of about ~2500 fps. This puts impact velocity at 150 yards at ~2250fps (depending on the BC of the chosen projectile).

My two options so far are 150gr Partition and 150gr SST (annealed).

BTW, in this scenario the target is bull moose and the potential shooters are all recoil-averse females (who will be restricted to broadside shots only).

Replies

22 Aug 2016
@ 08:40 pm (GMT)

Ben Grady

Re: Light .270 loads - Which projectile?
Hey Paul
This has been an interesting discussion. I've enjoyed the different reasoning's for each idea, for and against.
Look forward to seeing the results on the ground.
22 Aug 2016
@ 11:24 pm (GMT)

Paul Yates

Re: Light .270 loads - Which projectile?
Glad you are enjoying the discourse, Ben. We are quite lucky not only to have Nathan's advice but also so much experience and knowledge from many other members from various parts of the world.

Although I did not take the time to respond directly to every thought each of you shared with me, I certainly did read and give full consideration to it all.

In the end, it was a matter of economics and practicality that led me to stick with the .270 (for now) for my girls to shoot. All of the other ideas had merit, no doubt about that. As they say, "there's more than one way to skin a cat".

Youth mule deer season begins in 10 days here, so we will find out soon enough how well the girls will do with the new rifle. For moose, we'll have to wait till November.

Best,

-Paul
22 Aug 2016
@ 11:28 pm (GMT)

Paul Yates

Re: Light .270 loads - Which projectile?
By the way, I was intentionally vague about the 150 grain "moose" projectiles that I selected. Let's just say that the one I chose was not discussed earlier in the thread and I don't want to make everyone feel as if I ignored their advice. I will give one hint, however; Nathan would likely be very skeptical about my choice.
22 Aug 2016
@ 11:39 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Light .270 loads - Which projectile?
All the best for your hunting Paul. Will be interesting to see how the girls get on.
23 Aug 2016
@ 05:04 pm (GMT)

Paul Yates

Re: Light .270 loads - Which projectile?
Thanks Nathan! We are all getting quite excited about the pending season!
06 Sep 2016
@ 06:15 pm (GMT)

Paul Yates

Re: Light .270 loads - Which projectile?
Hello all,

I am happy to report that one of my daughters took a nice mule deer buck on Saturday. Distance was about 150y and the "light" deer loads I worked up with the 130 gr Speer BTSP @~2670 fps did the trick just great. Some meat loss due to shot placement, but impressive killing power for such a light recoiling load.

My daughter is very happy! Now her sister is eager to get hers!

06 Sep 2016
@ 08:51 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Light .270 loads - Which projectile?
Fantastic Paul. This is certainly a good low velocity bullet as I wrote in the cartridges book. Would be nice if Speer would make this with the exactly the same jacket in .358 caliber. Strange really, they have not added to this line of bullets in many years.

Anyway, congratulations to you and your daughter.
06 Sep 2016
@ 10:05 pm (GMT)

Paul Yates

Re: Light .270 loads - Which projectile?
Thanks Nathan!

Yes, it was your description of this projectile in the .270 Win page of the knoweldgebase that led me to believe it would be good in a reduced load such as I have built. I basically extrapolated from the info you provided regarding the long-range performance of the bullet (which was based on much higher M.V.) and figured I needed to get the M.V. down closer to the speed it would normally be going at 200-250 yards, so the impact velocities would be more typical of a "long range" shot. This coincided perfectly with my desire for less recoil.

For this deer at 150 yards, I calculate the impact velocity was about 2380 fps, which is about the velocity of a full power 130 grainer at 350 yards.

I really am so grateful for the information you provide and so glad that I decided to start reloading.

Hopefully I'll post more photos and stories as the season progresses.

Thanks again,

-Paul
07 Sep 2016
@ 03:05 am (GMT)

Brian Vickerman

Re: Light .270 loads - Which projectile?
Hi Paul:

An old general rule of thumb is a sectional density of .260 for moose.

This means using a 140 gr. shell which has a sectional density of .261.

New technology in bullet construction has reduced the importance of this number.

I would consider 130 gr copper bullets. You will keep velocity over 2600 fps for your range, and energy over 2100 ft-lbs/sec. Great penetration.

Just as suggestion.

Vick



07 Sep 2016
@ 06:12 am (GMT)

Paul Leverman

Re: Light .270 loads - Which projectile?
Congrats to you and your daughter! I've been seeing more and more young ladies at the range lately, and it's good to know that hunting is reaching the youth.

It's also nice to see the green pines in your pics, a rarity for sure these days.
07 Sep 2016
@ 07:46 am (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: Light .270 loads - Which projectile?
well done Paul and congrats to your daughter the smile really says it all.
08 Sep 2016
@ 05:26 am (GMT)

Mike Davis

Re: Light .270 loads - Which projectile?
Great work young lady.
you don't loose meat to poor bullet placement, you just have less steak and more mince or burger (as my mate from Wyoming calls it)
go the mighty .270 win
08 Sep 2016
@ 05:06 pm (GMT)

Paul Yates

Re: Light .270 loads - Which projectile?
Quote:
Hi Paul:

An old general rule of thumb is a sectional density of .260 for moose.

This means using a 140 gr. shell which has a sectional density of .261.

New technology in bullet construction has reduced the importance of this number.

I would consider 130 gr copper bullets. You will keep velocity over 2600 fps for your range, and energy over 2100 ft-lbs/sec. Great penetration.

Just as suggestion.

Vick


Hi Vick,

Does that rule of thumb include projectiles with a higher SD than .260, or is there a specific reason to try to zero in on the .260 SD? The projectiles I have chosen for the moose loads are 150 grains and have a SD of 0.279. They are definitely on the stout end of the spectrum and are known (by most accounts) to be great penetrators.

I might as well spill the beans (at the risk of Nathan thinking I am crazy) and tell you all that I have chosen the 150gn Speer Grand Slam as the moose round. I know Nathan had a bad experience with these projectiles and has henceforth not used them, but nearly every other account of them was positive so I have made the bold assumption that Nathan had a bad batch of projectiles. Nearly every other suggestion in this excellent thread would do just as well (perhaps even better), but the Grand Slams were on the shelf at my local retailer for a price that I found reasonable so I "bit the bullet" and grabbed a box.

I considered going with coppers, but I am just not convinced yet that they kill twice as well as traditional projectiles. I hate spending twice as much for something if I am not getting twice the value. I have used them in factory rounds in the past and they worked, but that's all I can say about them - which is the same thing I can say about basically every projectile I have tried so far.

I've been reading more and more about the Berger "VLD Hunting" and "Classic Hunter" projectiles recently and I think I tend to side with their approach to killing vs. the super-stout coppers. In hindsight, I might have been better off buying a box of 140gr Classic Hunters for the moose rounds.
08 Sep 2016
@ 05:14 pm (GMT)

Paul Yates

Re: Light .270 loads - Which projectile?
Quote:
Congrats to you and your daughter! I've been seeing more and more young ladies at the range lately, and it's good to know that hunting is reaching the youth.

It's also nice to see the green pines in your pics, a rarity for sure these days.


Hi Paul,

Thanks! I too always like to see stories of young people participating in the outdoor lifestyle. It restores some of my faith in humanity.

There is fairly extensive Pine Beetle damage in our forests here in BC, however I would not say that green pines are very hard to find. In fact there is far, far more green than any other colour in our forests. I guess we a re lucky?
08 Sep 2016
@ 05:16 pm (GMT)

Paul Yates

Re: Light .270 loads - Which projectile?
Thank you Thomas and Mike!

I will pass on the message to my daughter.

We are going out this evening to see if my other daughter can take a buck.
08 Sep 2016
@ 07:12 pm (GMT)

Bryan Webster

Re: Light .270 loads - Which projectile?
Quote:

I might as well spill the beans (at the risk of Nathan thinking I am crazy) and tell you all that I have chosen the 150gn Speer Grand Slam as the moose round. .


I loaded some Speer 180 grain Grand Slams for one of my boys years ago. He had a good, well placed shot on an elk and because of trees in the way, held on the shoulder. That bullet failed and I ended up shooting it just before it took off.

We have not used those bullets since, however that does not mean the faults in them have not been corrected, but I tend to keep track of what good shooters have to say of them and never tried them again...just my opinion.
08 Sep 2016
@ 09:00 pm (GMT)

Bryan Webster

Re: Light .270 loads - Which projectile?
Quote:
Quote:

I might as well spill the beans (at the risk of Nathan thinking I am crazy) and tell you all that I have chosen the 150gn Speer Grand Slam as the moose round. .


I loaded some Speer 180 grain Grand Slams for one of my boys years ago. He had a good, well placed shot on an elk and because of trees in the way, held on the shoulder. That bullet failed and I ended up shooting it just before it took off.

We have not used those bullets since, however that does not mean the faults in them have not been corrected, but I tend to keep track of what good shooters have to say of them and never tried them again...just my opinion.


Here is part of an article on Speer bullets from the American Rifleman Magazine and in it is stated the change from the old Grand Slam bullets:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
With the exception of those in .24 and .25 caliber, which always featured a one-piece core, original Grand Slam bullets had a two-piece core with the rear being harder than the front. Now, Grand Slams feature a three-component core that is poured into the gilding-metal jacket and flows into a heel pocket. Essentially, the Hot-Cor process, along with the added mechanical lock (at the heel) and thick shank, results in 80 to 85 percent weight retention. Internal fluting makes upset possible at a wide range of velocities, and a higher ballistic coefficient than Mag-Tip slightly flattens trajectory. Grand Slams have a cannelure for applying a crimp and are suitable for the largest game in a given cartridge’s application; however, with the enhanced performance comes a significant increase in price.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I am a fan of the regular Speer Hotcor bullets for big game, so perhaps it is time to take yet another look at these newer versions...??
08 Sep 2016
@ 10:25 pm (GMT)

Lane Salvato

Re: Light .270 loads - Which projectile?
Depending upon the state you are in, you can get a permit for a suppressor, which will help with recoil and noise. On a 270, you'd likely be able to shoot it full tilt with whichever projectile you wanted. The only issue is the wait for the permit. It won't do you any good for this hunt, but in the future it might really serve you well.
08 Sep 2016
@ 10:32 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Light .270 loads - Which projectile?
Perhaps so Bryan. I have a box of the newest here in .270 Win. Will have a look into this soon. My past failures were not exclusive to one batch.
08 Sep 2016
@ 11:03 pm (GMT)

Paul Leverman

Re: Light .270 loads - Which projectile?
Hi Paul - I hear you on the pine beetle. Here on the Nechako Plateau most of what was beautiful pine is now not even worth cutting for firewood. But as always, Mother Nature makes sure the species will survive.
09 Sep 2016
@ 01:05 am (GMT)

Brian Vickerman

Re: Light .270 loads - Which projectile?
Hi Paul:

First I must congratulate your daughter on a fine shot. It was a fine deer.
The only wasted meat is on the one that gets away.

I really didn't have much knowledge on the coppers until this summer when I really started to research ammo.

These are three videos that convinced me to give copper a try. Keep in mind I was researching 30 cal and I can always use 180 Core Lokts. lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk5m3NAQ_R0#t=37.316925

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMKvetaMqhE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3r7OVWoec8

As for the sectional density I actually posted that wrong. A sectional density of 260 was considered the minimum. I didn't mean to suggest it as the optimum. Sorry about that.

Vick
09 Sep 2016
@ 04:13 am (GMT)

Paul Yates

Re: Light .270 loads - Which projectile?
Bryan,

Yes I read that article about Speer bullets a few weeks ago. It was part of the reason I chose the Grand Slams.

Nathan,

So the failures you experienced were with the older, dual-core version of the Grand Slam?

09 Sep 2016
@ 05:28 pm (GMT)

Paul Yates

Re: Light .270 loads - Which projectile?
Hi Vick,

I've seen the videos except for the moose one.

I think you'll find that any marketing video by bullet/ammo manufacturers can be impressive if you go looking for them. Check out some of Berger's marketing videos, for example. Incredible examples of hydro-static/hydraulic shock resulting in stiff-legged,"bang-flop" performance.

I don't know for sure, but perhaps a Berger VLD would have dropped that moose right where it stood, rather than have a relatively delayed death, drowning in it's own blood.

I'm not saying it was an unethical kill, but I would prefer to get the job done faster than that. In fact, the whole time I was waiting for them to put one in it's neck/head and end it.

But then again, while I would have no interest in hanging that creature's head on my wall, I can see why some hunters may want to do as little damage as possible.

09 Sep 2016
@ 08:41 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Light .270 loads - Which projectile?
It was a dual core, you could see the way the lead was too hard and then shattered. I was surprised at how inferior this was to the Hotcor on hard bone.

Was a bit like the first heavy game Interbonds (.375 to .458), These also shattered on heavy bone. They would either struggle to open up or simply blow apart on heavy bone.

Yes, marketing vids. There is a lot that can be done with a smaller bore if you know how to use it. But I have to say, a larger bore and heavier bullet can make bullet choice and shot placement much easier. Much like the guys using the frangible .358 225 grain Sierra on Moose and not being overly concerned otherwise.

A couple of weeks back I shot a lame horse with the .308, body weight around 1000lb. I normally use the frangible 168gr A-Max so it doesn't make a mess (no exit). I shot this horse broadside and somehow the A-Max exited at the lower ear, about a 1" exit much to my surprise but all good. The horse tumbled and then went into death throws. Typically, the owner thought the horse was still alive as folk do when animals kick, so I put a 200gr ELD-X down through the spine. I could just have easily shot the horse through the lungs, tight behind the shoulder with that bullet or I could have gone forwards through the shoulder. These are not considered as being normal shots when putting animals down but the bleed is very fast if a follow up shot is needed. The 200gr was my- "if it turns to shit" load. Recoil was non existent in my .308.

A 200 grain .308 does not have the X factor on large body weights as say a 225 to 300 grain premium in a medium bore driven at high velocities. But it is still getting up into a good bullet weight range where I begin to have less concern about bullet construction.
10 Sep 2016
@ 04:09 pm (GMT)

Paul Yates

Re: Light .270 loads - Which projectile?
I appreciate all your feedback and advice on this topic, Nathan. Your point about larger bore size and higher bullet weight reducing the concern for bullet construction is not falling on deaf ears. My current financial situation and time constraints simply lead me to chose the .270 for the girls.

Another thing I should mention is that we'll be hunting moose in the Southern Interior of BC, where the moose do not grow as large as Northern BC, Yukon and Alaska. The common theme I hear from locals is "they're not that hard to kill". I have participated in a cow/calf hunt not far from here and the cow was dropped on the spot by a .25-06. Granted, it was a neck shot at about 40 yards.

My "if things go to shit" plan is to be right beside the shooter with my .270, ready to put an insurance shot or 2 into the animal. Let's face it, even with a medium bore and the best projectile, things could go wrong due to inexperience, moose fever, or other factors.
 

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