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> 375 Ruger Handloads for Alaska
375 Ruger Handloads for Alaska
@ 07:29 pm (GMT) |
Luke SchmidtI've been working with my Ruger Alaskan in 375 Ruger that I'm handloading for. I've replaced the factory stock with a Hogue fully bedded stock. With hunting season about to start I don't have time for a glass bedding project (and no butstocks available for months anyhow) but the current stock seams solid. It's free floated and stiff.Now I'd like advise on the best bullets for bear and moose. With full power loads I'm considering the Barnes 250 grain TTSX or the Sierra Gameking 250 grain. Both of these are available to me. I've tried the TTSX and two brands of factory ammo. So far groups have averaged 2-3 inches with what appear to be occasional fliers. I attribute those to user error. Either an occasional flinch or just the lower powered scope (1-4 Leopold). There is no discernable pattern to fliers and I ruled out barrel heating by spreading shots out. Because the 375 is right at my comfort limit I was considering some reduced power loads and was looking at 376 Steyr data for ideas. For lighter loads I could use the TTSX or Gameking 250 grains. Or I could use 235 grain TTSX or 235 grain Speer Hot Cor which I have. There aren't any other options available before hunting season. Thoughts? If I stay full power which of the 250 grain loads would be better? If I drop the power down a notch what do you guys think would be the best bear medicine inside 150 yards? I'm not going to shoot a bear much past 150 yards. Party for excitement sake and party because a poor shot on a bear could get ugly for me or someone else an injured bear encounters. I'd shoot a moose a bit farther but 300 yards would be the limit. I've read Nathan's articles on the 375s. I'm not clear however where a bear fits into the discussion. I'm assuming"heavy game" refers more to bovine. A big grizzly is still smaller than a bull but different from a large deer. |
Replies
@ 11:32 am (GMT) |
Andrew MurrayRe: 375 Ruger Handloads for AlaskaHi Luke,Your groups and description of the bedding are a little confusing. You mention the hour stock is bedded but you don't have he time to glass bed it just now... also your groups are 2-3" plus random fliers. I'd hazard a guess that your current bedding is not right or there may be some issues with the bore. Very hard to tell over a forum post, plus my lack of knowledge here won't help either. These may seem insignificant because of the close ranges you shoot at but your groups will be 4-5" in the field if not shooting prone plus you may need to factor flinching and other things which could open the groups further. I am hesitant to offer load suggestions beyond this: hard projectile wants fast velocity softer projectiles will want slower velocities for best results. Hunting bear means you probably want the best. Try reading the 'Effective Game Killing' article in the meantime and someone with more info will be here soon enough. |
@ 12:19 pm (GMT) |
Bob MavinRe: 375 Ruger Handloads for AlaskaHi Luke. I'd use the Sierra GK, not a fan of Barnes unless they're running very high velocity.My mate has a 375 Ruger he likes Woodeigh projectiles on the big stuff. Cheers Bob |
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@ 03:15 pm (GMT) |
Luke SchmidtRe: 375 Ruger Handloads for AlaskaAndrew I might not have been clear. The current stock is a Hogue. It's stiffened up with an aluminum section in the action which extends out to stiffen the forend. It's probably better than a floppy plastic stock but not as good as a real glass bedding job. Groups are occasionally better but become 2-3 inches including some fliers.I've dealt with flinch producing guns before. This one isn't really that horrible but I MIGHT concentrate and shoot a tad better if the loads were lighter. That is the only reason I'm interested in downloading a bit, to explore that option. If groups don't tighten up I'll know my shooting isn't the culprit or at least not my flinching. I've read through"Effective Game Killing" and enjoyed it. My question is that bears often seem to fall into a middle ground between big deer and "heavy game" which I assume are bovines. |
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@ 05:22 pm (GMT) |
Andrew MurrayRe: 375 Ruger Handloads for AlaskaI remember reading somewhere that, when wet, bears develop a massive "surface tension". Having a solid projectile can help over come this if using high velocity. I am not sure how a slow wide pojectile would fare against a wet bear. Essentially having to bust through an inch of water.But please take my comments with a grain of salt. I live in Australia, do not own a big bore and have never shot at anything like a bear. Or large bovine even. I would tend to agree with Bob regarding the Woodleigh projectiles, they are solids but will happily go through anything. In this your shot placement needs to be fairly good however if disproportionate to calibre wounding does not occur. |
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@ 05:25 pm (GMT) |
Andrew MurrayRe: 375 Ruger Handloads for AlaskaI should add regarding the Woodleigh projectiles: I have only read about the performance. Not used them personally! Though I will use some this weekend. But not like what you would be using if you decided to load some. Mine will be from my 308 shooting 130gr projectiles. |
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@ 05:36 pm (GMT) |
Luke SchmidtRe: 375 Ruger Handloads for AlaskaSo here is an update. I loaded 3 rounds with 250 grain GK bullets at roughly 2600 fps. When I went to try them out I noticed an issue with my benchrest. Long story but I fixed it which might account for earlier fliers. Recoil was pleasant. At 50 yards the first 2 shots were touching and I'm pretty sure the third round went through the same hole. I then tried 2 factory rounds. Basically touching again but a bit off so I made a few tweaks. After 3 more shots my scope was about on but I could tell I was getting tired so I called it a day.So it appears accuracy is better than thought, probably 1.5 inches at 100 yards which is good enough for now. Lighter ammo helps but I can let off a few full power loads with no problem. Still gotta decide what to hunt with. |
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@ 09:43 pm (GMT) |
Andrew MurrayRe: 375 Ruger Handloads for AlaskaNo worries Luke. When you get time bedding will be good to help reduce groups further. This is assuming the bore is sound and technique is good too but it's good to hear recoil was at a level that was comfortable. |
@ 11:23 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: 375 Ruger Handloads for AlaskaHi Luke, hopefully you can navigate your way through my .375 notes.Yes it was Gerry, a bear had come out of the water, the 250gr GK didn't want a bar of it. MV about 2600fps. The weight of the bear was not really the problem, around 330lb, no different to a very large wild boar. It was the soaked fur versus the bullet construction. Otherwise, Gerry has had a great run with the GK. Regarding a tough copper pill, If you want to really slam dunk game, aim for an impact of 2600fps or higher. If you want to chase the middle ground, either the Partition or a bonded pill. Bonded can work quite well on dense game in a unique manner. For example you could have a 300lb deer and the bonded bullet performs in a ho hum manner yet on a 100lb pig, the energy is absorbed in a most thorough manner. Just the way it is. A 250gr Swift would work well for you, most emphatic above 2400fps. Woodleigh is another choice although the weight options are not truly ideal for that middle weight (you are quite right, its a sort of 'in between' and horribly variable situation that not many folk really understand). The Partition tends to give more range, quite violent to 2200fps. And then you have the softer bullets. If there is any doubt about game weights and penetration vs soft pills, work with high SD / high weights which also forces a reduction in velocity. If you are completely confused, start right smack bang in the middle with the 260gr Partition. Hunt with it for a while then decide whether you need to take a step towards a tougher pill (bonded) or even tougher (copper) or whether you need to go completely the other way. Starting in the middle is generally the best bet until you get a feel for local game weights and actual ranges. I had a reader not long ago, ask me about loads for White Tail deer. All over 200 grains. This weight is fine by me, I love the big pills but I did wonder just how big these deer were. Then I received photos. Never before have I seen White Tail deer of this size. How they got this fat (with fat rolls) I do not know but there it is, a unique situation, body weights nearly twice what I expected. But things can just as easily go the other way and it can be difficult to predict which bullet will be best. |
@ 12:34 pm (GMT) |
Jonathan KittermanRe: 375 Ruger Handloads for AlaskaLuke, are you talking about black bears or something a bit larger like brown bears? |
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@ 12:37 pm (GMT) |
Jonathan KittermanRe: 375 Ruger Handloads for AlaskaAdding that Alaska Department of Fish and Game has a decent website post on firearms and ammuntion.http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=hunting.firearms |
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@ 01:23 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: 375 Ruger Handloads for AlaskaThere are some very good points on that website, nice to see.Just one caveat, if a client is going to fall apart shooting the bigger calibers, he is just as likely to fall apart shooting a small rifle if he is charged. As Paul Leverman might say- he's fkd either way. Just my experience with bovines and clients. There is no substitute for practice, lots of it. If you want to shoot a big gun, do it. But keep doing it until it becomes normal. Just to add to that- it used to annoy me a great deal when a client turned up for a hunt with a small caliber because it "allowed for better accuracy" but still failed to show any proficiency because he forgot the one thing that brings it all together - practice. Hence why I no longer guide and only offer tutorials. |
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@ 03:22 pm (GMT) |
Luke SchmidtRe: 375 Ruger Handloads for AlaskaThanks for the help. At this point I really only have two choices before hunting starts. I can load the GK a bit lighter so it doesn't come apart or I could push the TTSX as fast as possible. I live rather remotely so there isn't time to shop or order new stuff. |
@ 11:34 pm (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: 375 Ruger Handloads for AlaskaMoose: notoriously easy to kill, unless they are adrenalized. If they are running, it's too late. Wait for another. There are lots of moose and lots of shots. The vast majority of moose killed with a well placed chest shot, don't even know that they have been hit. Not sure why, maybe fewer pain centres. In a 375-338 CT (Chatfield Taylor), at approx. 2750fps, the Accubonds are devastating to the point of you may lose a shoulder or two, depending on range. On the subject of range, I would expect that your average range for moose to be around 75 yards, closer (6 feet) if you are calling during the rut. |
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@ 12:46 am (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: 375 Ruger Handloads for AlaskaBears: you don't say what species you are hunting. Big Browns, Coastals, Interior Griz all need special attention to bullet construction, velocities, and weights. If you are going on a guided hunt, check with your guide as to the local species you will be hunting and go from there. Black bears can fool you. They are the little brother, but with that comes the bad attitude. They've had their asses kicked too many times to be intimidated by a puny human. On the other side of the coin, most times what you see of a black bear is their (well-kicked) ass heading into the bush at warp speed. Never have and never will hunt griz, but have had way too many close encounters. Not real pleasant, they definitely need a Tic-Tac. Have shot lots of blacks with a range of calibres and bullets. They don't like being shot, and their first instinct is to attack what is causing them pain. They look like a dog chasing its tail, trying to bite at whatever is on the shoulder. This makes a follow up shot very difficult to place well. Big bores, big frangible bullets and pin them to the ground. Maybe. I have also seen bears with both shoulders broken cover more ground than you could imagine, a very deadly dead-run if it happens to be towards you. Do not believe the internet stories of hunters emptying their bolt fed mags at a charging bear. I have yet to see anyone that can work a bolt four times in four seconds. |
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@ 03:22 am (GMT) |
Luke SchmidtRe: 375 Ruger Handloads for AlaskaI'm after a moose for meat and a grizzly for a challenge.Paul I live in Alaska so I hunt without a guide. I am in unit 13 which extends from the inside of the coastal mountains to the interior for you non Alaskans. What this means is I could encounter a 1000 pound Brown Bear on the other hand I could be shooting a 300 pound interior grizzly. Either would be fine with me because I'm after the challenge and thrill of hunting a grizzly not a huge rug. But all this makes bullet choice a bit tricky. |
@ 04:02 am (GMT) |
Luke LahdenrantaRe: 375 Ruger Handloads for AlaskaHi Luke if you are still wrestling with bullet choice one way you can resolve it is by looking at it from a risk/reward perspective. Of the hunting scenarios you have potentially in meat moose, smallish mtn grizzly, coastal brown bear. Undoubtedly the coastal brown bear will be the most challenging bullet wise. And without a doubt the riskiest scenario (and one of the worst in all hunting) would be facing an extremely angry and potentially non-lethally wounded 1000 lb brown bear in an alder thicket.Ask yourself which of the loads you have available to you right now would you like to have in your gun if it should happen that you are stuck in that situation? If it were me, I would find a high velocity but accurate load with those Barnes ttsx bullets, try them out for a season and see how they perform. Come next or future seasons you can reevaluate your bullet choice and go forward from there. Good luck with your adventure! I would love to try grizzly hunting but the powers that be here in BC just closed the hunt to cater to city environmentalists. :( |
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@ 08:24 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: 375 Ruger Handloads for AlaskaOK, two bullets to work with and no time to muck around.If you get a chance, do try and push the TSX fast, see if it hits its stride. If you need to, we can have a chat via skype just to get your ducks in a row before any further rifle testing. If the TSX won't shoot, don't lose any sleep over it. Just take the existing load and use it. Don't worry about downloading, just shoot and cycle the bolt and wait. Thats all you need to do. Given a choice between a client who is well practiced with a basic cup and core versus a client who has all the toys and the X factor bullets but no time spent at the range, well it should be obvious. Earlier I talked about the guys who turn up with the low power stuff and waffle on to me about how the low recoil helps accuracy, but that the same guys usually have the least amount of practice so really, its all intellectual rubbish. The thing about practice for hunting, is that it should not be seen as a chore and the same goes for recoil. Its something you develop a love for, its all about allowing yourself to have a passion for what you are doing. Even the way we hold the rifle. Are we sitting at the bench, arms folded as if to say "the queen is not impressed"? Or are we embracing the rifle, reveling in it? If you really allow yourself to get into, the mental rumination can fade into the back ground and you can get down to the business of shooting good groups, trying various field positions, reaching out a bit and so forth. Provided technique is sound and the shooter has no pre-existing injuries, there should be no pain and no bruising. The more you down play it and just get stuck into it, the less the bullet selection will matter because you will make what you have work for you. Just over the pole from you, you have a bunch of guys using either the SKS or SVD, accurized via such processes as using duct tape to hold the stocks together. Ugly but hey, what choice do they have. Paul, I had a reader who lives not too far from you, hunting White Tail, mama bear wanted him for dinner. he had a .270 cal rig. He did manage to cycle but only made one connect which is quite understandable. Fortunately it hit the mark but at the shot, the bear just veered away, he could not tell if it connected. Instead, he had the impression that the shot just given her a fright and that she was coming around from another angle. So he gapped it, got himself together, then got the officials in, found the bear not far away. Lucky indeed. Even though it proved effective, the lack of any major reaction caused him to trade in his .270 for a larger caliber. This is of course a very personal matter. Always easy for others to say which caliber he should or should use. In the end, its up to him, his life. |
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@ 09:01 am (GMT) |
Luke SchmidtRe: 375 Ruger Handloads for AlaskaThanks for the kind offer Nathan. I think I've got a good direction now. I don't see any reason I can't get the TTSX bullets to work. Here is the culprit of the fliers (I think). My shooting rest has a pad for the rifle forend. It can slide side to side about 5-6mm. Everything else about the rest is solid (it's fairly heavy duty). When I began shooting I was gripping the forend tightly because I was afraid of "scope eye" the actual recoil to my shoulder was not bad at all (credit the stock design). I think the "fliers" were me wiggling the rifle slightly one way or the other. Almost never was a round to high or low and then never by the margin of the windage error. I finally stopped holding the forend in a death grip on the bench when I tried the lighter loads. After verifying that I was nowhere near getting hit by the scope I tried the full power factory loads. Again no scope eye and accuracy was similar to the lighter loads.Also my work schedule changed suddenly and I ended up in town where I was pleasantly surprised to find two boxes of Hornady GMX cartridges (250 grain). No partitions to however. As I recall you consider the GMX and TTSX roughly equal. I'll probably verify the zero tomorrow and simply hunt with the GMX factory ammo assuming accuracy is good. If I have more reloading time I'll probably just load all the GK up for practice ammo and spend time focusing on off hand technique. |
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@ 09:12 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: 375 Ruger Handloads for AlaskaSounds good Luke, just hitting your groove. Thats the way to go. |
@ 10:06 am (GMT) |
Thomas KitchenRe: 375 Ruger Handloads for AlaskaBeen reading this with interest, we just don't have the big game here (nz)So the only thing I might be able to add is you might be able to do ten minute glue and screw job on your rifle as it's the chassis hogue stock? might be worth looking into it, details are in Nathans book |
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@ 04:02 pm (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: 375 Ruger Handloads for AlaskaGood find on the GMXs. They should put you in the 25-2600fps area, with a really good SD. You shouldn't have any problems with your moose within the ranges of the bullet. Not really sure where your POA would be though. If they are similar to the AccuBond you may want to try to avoid leg/shoulder bones. My comment on the never hunting griz was not a criticism of your desire to take one. Far from it. I hope you take a nice one on a fair hunt that you will remember fondly. Just be safe and be sure. |
@ 09:37 pm (GMT) |
bryan longRe: 375 Ruger Handloads for AlaskaI see here and on lots of forums guys checking zero off benches. I thought bench and sandbags were more to check the rifle's ability to group?Shouldn't zero be checked from a hunting positions with a hunting gun? It also shows how big or small your hunting groups actually are? B |
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@ 10:30 pm (GMT) |
Bob MavinRe: 375 Ruger Handloads for AlaskaI develop my loads off the bench, and set zero 1.5" high at 100yds. I then check the trajectory off my shooting sticks.I've never had a difference between the bench & my shooting sticks. My sticks consist of two pieces of aluminium tube 950mm long with a bolt through them 125mm from the end with plastic tube on the top end. can sit the butt of my rifle on my vertical knee, adjust the spread of the sticks for elevation, easily shoot deer at 300yds and a lot longer. I've been using them for many years. Cheers Bob[b] |
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@ 07:16 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: 375 Ruger Handloads for AlaskaActually I better double check Gerry's wet bear load. I am now thinking it was his Accubond load .30-06. Gerry should be along soon to confirm. Thinking back now, his .375gr GK load has been the reliable one on those body weights he has been hunting.Bryan, that is quite true. However as described in the books, I like to see the shooter isolate the rifle as a variable, testing from a solid position (bench or prone), work through rifle and ammo issues and then move to testing accuracy in field positions. Very clear on this in the books and other writings. Paul, regarding the GMX, its the opposite to the AB. The AB can flatten out and fail to penetrate heavy bone. The GMX should be aimed to break bone, especially as velocity falls. |
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@ 10:37 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: 375 Ruger Handloads for AlaskaHere guys, have a look at this .375 hunt, I pulled some of our old research footage off an old hard drive...https://youtu.be/eAxO0EL1IzM Good advice on the quick accurize Thomas. Thats what I thought about covering if Luke made contact via skype. Also, we do have big game in NZ, just have to find them. I remember when we had a look at guiding down south and owner of the bush block had been ripped calf to crotch while trying to get up a tree and out of the way of a bush bull. |
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