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> Annealing Barnes bullets
Annealing Barnes bullets
@ 10:41 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterFrom an email query...Hi Nathan, I watched the videos about annealing Berger VLD bullets and Hornady SST and Interbond bullets to increase expansion at longrange and was curios if Barnes rifle bullets would benifet from this process? Thanks, ....... |
Replies
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@ 10:42 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Annealing Barnes bulletsHi ....., I have not annealed the Barnes for long range work, primarily because the design is not suited to this purpose.Barnes currently make a long range bullet designed to give full expansion at low velocities- but this is not enough. The trouble is, at low velocity, if a bullet does not fully impart its energy, even though full expansion may occur, the wound channel will only be the diamter of the expanded bullet. So lets say that a 7mm Barnes bullet expands to 12-13mm (.5"). At high velocity, the wound channel may be 25-75mm (1-2") in diameter. This is what I call disproportionate to caliber (or expanded caliber) wounding. It is caused by water particles trying to move away from the bullet path, becoming highly destructive with internal velocities of 5000-8000fps (hydraulic shock). Its a lot like an intense water blaster. Wounding is wide, bleeding is immensely fast, death occurs within a few seconds. But at low velocity, without this reaction, the wound channel diameter is proportionate to caliber, in this example 12-13mm. A wound of this size can be very slow killing, allowing game to run a long way. Think of low velocity killing in bow hunters terms, the bigger the blades, the faster the kill. To ensure energy transfer at low velocities, the projectile really needs to sacrifice weight during penetration. By using a fragmentary projectile (or in some situations a partially fragmentary projectile like the SST), the cluster of fragments regains the ability to produce wide wounding. Some degree of hydraulic trauma is regained. I have also found that nervous trauma is increased and animals will often shut down into immediate coma. In one recent incident, one of my clients shot a large Red stag but as the trigger was pulled, the stag moved forwards. The 208gr A-Max struck the stag through the rear hams which of course is far from ideal, yet, the animal dropped to the ground, then passed into coma and then bled to death via the femoral artery. To an outside observer, this would appear as an instant kill. Of course, I am not condoning frangible bullets as an antedote for poor shot placement. The above incident is certainly not something that could be repeated with any reliability, a more predictable outcome would be slow killing and immense suffering to the animal. The above is an extreme example of nervous trauma producing coma, fortunately the femoral artery was struck, effecting a fast kill. Hope that helps explain things. |
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@ 12:15 am (GMT) |
David KellyRe: Annealing Barnes bulletsNathan - you explanation of things like this is just awesome! Great stuff.Many thanks ah. Cheers - Dave |
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@ 09:41 pm (GMT) |
Riley DeckerRe: Annealing Barnes bulletsHi, I am the one who emailed this question to Nathan. I just got back from an antelope hunt in Wyoming and i shot my doe at 486 yards with my 338 Lapua and 280 grain LRX and impact velocity was approx 2078 fps. The shot was behind the shoulder about 4" behind the shoulder crease. The bullet entered between two ribs and took multiple chunks out of both lungs and liver and nicked the stomach. She ran 15 yards and fell over. The bullet left a 1.5" exit with the hide still on. Once the hide was removed, there was a 2.25" hole in the ribcage where the bullet exited, breaking two rib bones, thats disproportionate to caliber. I e-mailed some pics to Nathan and im too computer retarded to figure out how to post them so Nathan if you could please post them for me i would appreciate it.Have a good one, Riley |
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@ 04:14 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Annealing Barnes bulletsEntry
Entry into chest 
Exit through chest 
Exit between hide and offside skin 
Exit 
Wet newsprint test 1500fps, 1600fps, 2650fps 
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@ 02:40 pm (GMT) |
Riley DeckerRe: Annealing Barnes bulletsThanks Nathan, sorry it took so long to get back, ive been busier than a one legged man in an ass kicking contest. My dad shot a mule deer doe with the 338 Lapua and 280 grain Barnes LRX at 330 yards with approx impact velocity of 2225 fps. I will email you some pics so you can post them here.Riley |
@ 07:10 pm (GMT) |
Riley DeckerRe: Annealing Barnes bulletsI have some pictures of a Mule deer doe, shot at 330 yards with my 338 Lapua and 280 grain BARNES LRX, i also have some pictures of my first elk (cow) shot at 378 yards with the same combo as above. Impact velocity was 2225 fps for both shots. The higher altitude of where i shot my cow is the reason for the same impact velocity. I think i figured out how to post pics.Mule deer first. She was quarting to us, 330 yards, 11 mph full value wind, the bullet entered just in front of her onside shoulder and exited just behind the off side shoulder. Maybe 2" from where we were aiming. She stumbled around for approx. 20 seconds and went 30 yards with a blood trail a blind man could follow. Exit. 
Exit with a pic of what the blood trail looked like. 
Exit through ribcage. 
Entrance into ribcage. 
Entrance into brisket. 
Now the elk. She was perfectly broad side at 378 yards, no wind, the bullet went into the high shoulder, hitting one shoulder blade. She was DRT and didnt move after she hit the ground. Destroyed top of lungs. 
Entrance into shoulder. 
Exit through hide. approx 1" 
Exit through shoulder. Shot placement is clearly visable in this pic. 
Exit through shoulder with the shoulder removed. 
Carnage through ribcage. Bullet entered left, exited right breaking the 5th rib back. 
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@ 07:13 pm (GMT) |
Riley DeckerRe: Annealing Barnes bulletsQuote: Exit through shoulder. Shot placement is clearly visable in this pic.
The elk is hanging with its head down, to further clarify shot placement. |
@ 04:20 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Annealing Barnes bulletsThanks Riley. You can see on the internal chest pic, that the bullet either passed extremely close to the spine or may have severed the spine. This accounts for the instant collapse at that range.Great pics, thanks for sharing. |
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@ 10:54 pm (GMT) |
Riley DeckerRe: Annealing Barnes bulletsNo problem Nathan, and the bullet did sever the spine. |
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@ 10:54 am (GMT) |
Riley DeckerRe: Annealing Barnes bulletsNathan, i should also note that the bullet only hit the front of the lungs and the top of the heart on the mule deer so that could attribute to her going 30 yards.And Nathan could you explain this to me? --> I remember you saying that a double lung shot usually kills faster than a heart. Could you tell me why? I tried to find it again but couldnt. |
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@ 04:05 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Annealing Barnes bulletsIf the heart is struck, it stops pumping and locks oxygen rich blood into the brain and muscles of the body. In the absence of hydrostatic shock, some species of deer, mountain game and African antelope will run up to 300 yards, making carcass recovery either difficult or in some cases impossible.The lung shots drains the body of blood with a few short seconds. The shot placement you describe on the Mule deer should have effective the autonomous plexus nerve ganglia that is located at the front of the lungs, above the heart. Normally this would result in instant collapse and death. It may just be that Barnes bullet isn't quite rendering a wide enough wound at that range to destroy enough surrounding tissue as to ensure destruction of the ganglia. I am still a bit dubious as to whether you will find satisfactory results at impact velocities below 2000fps. Nevertheless, you achieved a clean kill without a dead run animal, plus a clean carcass which is very good. It seems that a lot of your long shots are around the 2200fps impact velocity mark and results are fairly uniform. |
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@ 05:43 pm (GMT) |
Riley DeckerRe: Annealing Barnes bulletsThanks Nathan, this year i will try to get some more animals at or below the 2000 fps mark and will report back what i find. |
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@ 08:44 pm (GMT) |
Riley DeckerRe: Annealing Barnes bulletsNathan, can i give a suggestion? I would love to see a 338 cal wound database, i would love to see a couple wound pics from the 300 grain berger elite hunter and OTM at LR-ELR (1000 yards+). And would be happy if a couple of my pics were included. Again just a suggestion.Thanks, Riley |
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@ 03:13 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Annealing Barnes bulletsHi Riley, yes I want to get this sorted, plus pages for the other medium bores. You can see I have a couple of .375 pages there. Am a bit pushed for time at the moment but I really want it sorted. |
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