@ 01:53 pm (GMT)
I am new to the forum.
I live very rural and several of our neighbors and myself are having significant issues with coyotes.
I haven't been able to reload in years and I can't find primers anyhow.
So I have this PMC X-TAC Match 77 grain rounds to use. I have a zero at 100 yards with them.
I'm firing from a Remington 700PSS with a 26" barrel and a 1:9 twist.
I have a Leupold Vari-X 3 3.5-10 scope with a mildot reticle.
I'm asking for assistance for bullet drop and mildot calculations for ranges out to 400 yards.
Its zero'd at 100.
(I'm using a range finder)
Anyone know what this ammo ballistics are?
Just want to know my hold over in mils for if I see them out past 100.
I'll have more time to study and even reload later but right now, we're just getting are butts whooped by these coyotes and I need to get out there.
Can I get some tips on this?
Thanks so much,
@ 07:59 am (GMT)
Re: PMC X-Tac 77 grain 223Hi Mike, I am not going to delve too far into this as this subject matter is covered in the book series. The books have a great deal of info that needs to be taken into consideration. So in brief...
The 77gr SMK (Non cannelure) is not designed for, nor well suited to game killing, especially at extended ranges. Performance degrades considerably at 300 yards and beyond (bullet struggles to fragment). Ideally, you should drag the tips over a sharpening stone to subtly expose the HP. Just a small amount of material removal will help, without altering the BC noticeably below its original .372.
Your rifle should not be zeroed at 100 yards. If it is and you see an animal at say 250, you may lose time mucking around doing math, at a range where the wind may eddy to the animal before you take your shot. The rifle should be set to print 2" high at 100 or ideally 3" high at 100, though for the later, you need to teach yourself how to quickly hold slightly below center for close to moderate range shots.
Do not use the mildots for aim points, they are not really designed for this, though they can be used for wind holds.
With the rifle set to print 3" high at 100 yards, it will be zeroed at 240 yards (a fairly normal .223 trajectory). At 300 yards, the bullet will be 5" low.
To dial for shots, the following come ups may work:
300 yards .5 mil
325 .7 mil
350 1 mil
375 1.2 mil
400 1.5 mil
Wind holds (10mph) are:
300 .8 (distance from crosshair to dot).
That is about as far as I want to take this as it is unethical to advise any further. You may need to shoot twice (second finishing shot) at 350 to 400 yards. Thin animals offer little resistance for bullet expansion.
If you wish to take this further, please read the book series.
All the best.
@ 05:01 pm (GMT)
Re: PMC X-Tac 77 grain 223Where is this book?
I chose this round due to the in ability to find anything on shelves. It was either this or just 62 grain FMJ's.
If I had a NBT round, I'd have used that straight away.
I'm just losing a lot of chickens to the coyotes lately and I need to take out one or two, they usually stay away for a month or so if I do that.
I simply use a shotgun when they are within 50 feet. I rarely get that shot though.
Thanks for the info you gave me. I'll use it.
And again, if I had a better round for something the size of a coyote, I'd be using that. Ammo availability is pretty rare lately.
@ 07:14 pm (GMT)
Re: PMC X-Tac 77 grain 223books...look at store...above and to side of main page......
now NORMALLY Im 200% in agreement with most of what Nathan has to say...BUT in the case of zero for .223........I take different approach and go 1.5" high ...I do this because 90% of my shots are below 250 yards and looking at pretty curvey picture on ballistic chart,and changing numbers and sight in height...it made more sence for me and type of shooting I do.
I PERSONALLY wouldnt try for a yote at more than 250 yards and it would have to be dead calm wind wise and have super steady rest.....the thought of wounding a dog type critter wouldnt sit well with me.I shoot lots of wallabies with .223 and they are similar size with light bones,a varmit type projectile is a far better bet and HUGE....and I mean absolute HUGE improvement in killing power.....the need to be quite so precise in shot placement changes as the damage internally is much larger with a super soft projectile.
find a better load,you will feel better for doing so....
@ 05:20 pm (GMT)
Re: PMC X-Tac 77 grain 223If I could find a better load I would.
I need to have at least a hundred rounds to get myself sighted in correctly with it and then have enough to last me the year.
So one box here and there as they become available isn't enough.
As I write this, I see there are two available in a polymer tip but they are 40 grain and 53 grain.
That light of round out of this bolt action has never printed very good groups for me. I've never tried the 40 grain.
But 55 grain rounds for some reason don't like my barrel.
I fired these 77 grain rounds and they are all sub 1 inch at 100.
68 grain Hornady's did well too.
I had plans before to use my 6.5X55 Swedish Mauser. Its accurate the Hornady Polymer tip does very well with it. Very difficult to find those though.
@ 05:29 am (GMT)
Re: PMC X-Tac 77 grain 223I need to note though, I appreciate everyone's advice greatly.
When primers become available, I'll load my own.
Or if polymer tip ammo becomes available enough, I will switch to that.
Right now though, I gotta use what I can. I'm not shooting the coyotes for sport.
I'm trying to protect the livestock we have. They've even attacked some of the neighbors pet dogs.
Thanks again for the advice, though, I truly appreciate it.
@ 07:10 am (GMT)
Re: PMC X-Tac 77 grain 223To Mike Davis, yes in this case the question I was asked was setting up for shooting to 400 yards. The drop for the 77gr is quite noticeable and if a guy wants to shoot long and get shots away quick, it can be best to start with a zero around 250. As you know, this can produce errors if one is not used to (or trains for) this. Having said this, although not as precise as the lower setting, when it comes to error, a spine shot is better than a brisket shot, also helping the SMK to expand. If Mike was to set up 1.5" high at 100 yards, he would still be 4 to 5" low at 250. So either way, one has to factor in some form of trajectory. It depends as you say, on whether the majority of shots are inside or beyond 200 yards.
To Mike Patrick, I completely understand. At the moment, it is a matter of using what is available. the time for idealism has passed. Give them a lick on a stone or with a fine file and see how you get on.
Here are the books I spoke about:
@ 12:18 pm (GMT)
Re: PMC X-Tac 77 grain 223All good bossman.....I do understand.
it struck me as reading this.....Mike P,you shooting at home,so could reasonably expect to be shooting from same spot??? eg on porch out back door,or from back gate....... the history books tell us the wiley Boer faced similar situation when facing British troops,they took time to place cairns of stones at predetermined ranges.....you could easily do the same and fire minimal number of shots out there and MAYBE just MAYBE with a bit of luck line up a mil dot or two....and then chart that so you KNOW FOR SURE where its going to be.
if you say fired couple at 300-350 and 400 you could then place bit of coloured tape over holes in target,go back,realign Xhairs with bullseye and see which mildot covers coloured tape...sort of do every thing in reverse with minimal shots fired....that way when pesky varmit does turn up......he is by my 300 yard cairn,the 2nd dot down worked there BANG ...end of story.
there is a good ballistic app on www.huntingnut (top left of main home page in box,pointblank online)which allows you to change your numbers to suit and best of all for fella like myself,it draws curve out as well as doing the printed numbers....its how I decided on my zero height..I punched in what numbers I knew and best guessed the rest,then kept changing zeroed distance till the curve best suited my type of hunting.
you could use it to work out theoretical drops at range...place target with theoretical drops premarked on it out at range and go back and do the look through scope to see where mil dots are at without firing a shot....
it wont be 100% accurate as you havent verified drops...but its better than outright guessing.....
@ 01:12 pm (GMT)
Re: PMC X-Tac 77 grain 223Yes I'm firing from known positions. I have several. I took a range finder out and noted landmarks and their perspective ranges.
So now I don't have to bring the ranger finder. I can tell what range by what landmark.
If I could find enough Hornady Polymer tipped rounds, I think they are called superformance or something, I'd have Leupold make me a CDS dial for my 6.5X55 Swedish Mauser.
I have one made up for the Hornady match ammo they used to make for that round.
They stopped making that ammo.
But when it was made, I would fire that ammo out of that gun at the range and it was impressive. I could dial in 4. And I grouped a sub MOA at 400. I would dial in 5.5 and hit 10 out of 10 clay pigeons in the dirt at 550 yards.
Great rifle, great ammo.
But they don't make it anymore and if I could amass 100 rounds of the superformance, which has 140 gr round with a polymer tip and a BC of .520 I'd go that route.
But I digress,
Yeah I doped out the different ranges around the areas that I setup. I have only one area that affords me shots with a good bullet stop out to 400.
Most are 250 and under though.
@ 02:17 pm (GMT)
Re: PMC X-Tac 77 grain 223I'm back.
I found some different ammo.
This is a polymer tipped 6.5X55 Swedish 140 grain by Hornady.
Probably overkill for my coyote issue.
Here's my problem, I can't find the original dial for my Leupold scope I have on that Mauser 6.5.
What is on there is a CDS dial Leupold made for me that is set up for the Hornady 6.5X55 Match grade BTHP.
(Which is no longer available)
Everything is the same with this ammo except for G1 BC. The CDS is set for a BC of .580.
This new Hornady is .520
I was going to put a 3 round group on paper at 100 yards and see how that compares to my '1' setting on the CDS dial.
I am assuming there will be differences but I'm hoping not enough to effect my aim out to 300 yards. (With the application of taking out coyotes) Most of my shots are going to be 200 yards now that I found a good spot to call those buggers in.
I'm wondering what y'all think the differences might be as far as 100-300 yards.
The other day my Polish chicken was taken by a coyote and I became pretty incensed. That was my favorite bird. More of a pet than anything else.
So I headed down to a spot where I could bench over a downed tree, pull a camo net over me and wait with a call.
The call worked after about 30 minutes and a coyote showed up and sat right up on this ridge silhouetted there. I could not take that shot. There was no bullet stop beyond the coyote. I waited there an hour for that coyote to move just 5 feet towards me where there was plenty of dirt behind it.
Finally it did.
I had to take some deep breaths and steady myself because I was fatigued by then.
I was able to take the shot at 215 yards with that 77 grain PMC I started the thread with.
You guys were right.
I hit that coyote center amidships with a chest shot. It was facing right towards me and it still ran!
It took me 30 minutes of hiking to find it.
There was no action after that. Days went by without seeing hide nor hair of any of the rest of them.
This morning, they were back.
I have this Hornady 6.5 Superformance now. Just 20 rounds but its better than no rounds.
Polymer tip. That should do the job. (I'm not into hiking)
I just wonder how much difference in range the drop will be between .520 BC and .580.
If I could find my original dial, I'd just put that on the scope and site in with it and figure the drop as per normal.
But I can't find it.
@ 08:45 pm (GMT)
Re: PMC X-Tac 77 grain 223I would bet my favourite pocketknife it wont be more than 3" drop difference....I would be gobsmacked if it was...... pretty easy to find out,chuck numbers in ballistics calculator and see what it pokes back at you... look up pointblank online if you havent any others...it works and is free.
now smack them yotes in the solid bits and your chickens will have some peace n quiet.
@ 09:33 pm (GMT)
Re: PMC X-Tac 77 grain 223at 2600fps its about an inch at 300 yards......so go forth and ventilate them pesky varmits.