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Forum Index > Precision long range hunting and shooting > One Standard Cartridge and One Magnum

One Standard Cartridge and One Magnum

15 Dec 2018
@ 01:20 pm (GMT)

Lane Salvato

Guys, here's a question for the group. How many of you use Nathan's suggestion of using a standard cartridge like a 308 or 7 mm-08 and a magnum? How long did you shoot and practice with the standard cartridge before getting a magnum?

Which standard do you shoot and which magnum? Right now I just have a 308 for a long range setup and am still learning the basics of drop, and windage past 300 yards. I have a 338 Win. Mag. but I don't have it set up for long range right now. Anyone shooting a 7 Practical?

Lots of questions but I'm asking for the sake of curiosity, not looking for advice on a build.

Replies

16 Dec 2018
@ 01:29 am (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: One Standard Cartridge and One Magnum
Hey Lane. 6.5 x 55 swede and the non magnum that's almost a magnum
35 Whelen Ackley ImprovedI

6.5×55 Swede Sako 75


35Whelen Ackley Improved BSA CF2
16 Dec 2018
@ 03:08 am (GMT)

Paul Leverman

Re: One Standard Cartridge and One Magnum
Magnum choices: 308 Norma for target, 338 WinMag for hunting.

Standard: 243 Win for target, 30-'06 and 45-70 Govt. for hunting.

Have re-vamped, re-worked and re-learned all of them thanks to the Guru of Guns. Shoot them all (and more) as often as I can.

Never considered a magnum until a chance meeting with a random shopper in the line up at the till in Costco. We were talking hunting, and he mentioned he was selling his 338. I followed him home. That was about five years ago. Now it is my go to for stalking moose (use the 45-70 for moose from the boat).
16 Dec 2018
@ 04:38 am (GMT)

Lane Salvato

Re: One Standard Cartridge and One Magnum
Paul that's awesome. Are you from the United States? I ask because you mention moose. I was headed down on cartridge size due to 'recoil sensitivity' also known in this circle as bad shooting technique. Went from a 270 to a 257 Weatherby and that's when I met the Guru of Guns as well.

Started with a 338 Win. Mag. for hunting Nilgai in South Texas and eventually went to a 308 for everyday use. Believe it or not I'm still getting used to the capabilities of the 308. Hard to believe what I'd been missing with bullet choices from Hornady and then the lead-free from DRT.

I was all about speed before reading Nathan's books and visiting with him. Now both my go-to rifles are the slow rumbling big bullets that hit like freight trains. My 338 is loaded with a 285 grain ELD-M that's moving around 2450 fps. It takes its time getting there but when it hits it brings the pain.
16 Dec 2018
@ 11:26 am (GMT)

Ryan Nafe

Re: One Standard Cartridge and One Magnum
Right now I’m just using a .308 and then working on my project 7mm Rem Mag, which should make a great team. The .25-06 my sister gave me is waiting in the wings, ballistically it could be considered to be about halfway between the .308 and 7mm Rem Mag.

I certainly think Nathan’s strategy of “a hack and a magnum” makes quite a lot of sense, it keeps things simple but versatile. It’s a great idea, I’ve actually taken it and applied it to my handguns as well.
16 Dec 2018
@ 12:16 pm (GMT)

Luke Lahdenranta

Re: One Standard Cartridge and One Magnum
I have an old Tikka M695 30-06 that is now being set up per Nathan's recommendations. It is being upgraded with a Boyds stock and a Sightron siii scope. The plan is to play with and shoot the heavy 200,208,220 gr bullets in it.

I also have a Tikka T3 243 that I've set up following the book/video that is a great light rifle, and just a delight to shoot at the range.

I now have as my first magnum a M700 7mm Rem Mag that really was love it first shot. Currently it's just sitting in its original SPS stock and is wearing a Leupold 6x42 scope. The only upgrade on it so far is a Triggertech trigger. Not very long range but it's set up right now as my 'point and shoot' to 350 yards Mule deer rifle. I'll see how I get on with it for now but I might set it up as my true 'long range' rifle in the future if I really get into shooting long.

While I still have a burning desire for a bigger medium bore like a 35Wh/9.3x62 or 338 win mag/358 Norma/375, I suspect a lot of that may be due to not yet seeing my 30-06 hammer game with the big +200 gr bullets. I very well may be perfectly happy with my 30-06 as my 'heavy' rifle, the desire for something bigger being pretty theoretical.

If I really think about it, 95% of what I hunt is either Mule deer and Blacktail deer along with Black bear out to about 300-350 yards. I really only hunt bigger game like moose/elk occasionally. So truthfully I could get along very happily with just my 30-06 or my 7mm Mag.
17 Dec 2018
@ 08:44 am (GMT)

Paul Leverman

Re: One Standard Cartridge and One Magnum
Lane, I currently live and hunt in northern British Columbia. Moose is my preferred hunt, only because that's what I learned first. That and the ROI (Return On Investment) principle. ROI: one shot = one year's worth of meat.

Moose are notoriously easy to kill. Lung shot and the work starts. Until I found this site, the bang/flop method never entered into it. I'm not sure about the other hunted species, but what I've found with moose is that if they are not adrenalised (and why would they be?), after being shot, they just get tired and go look for someplace to lie down. Which means that if they are shot on the edge habitat, they will go twenty or thirty feet back into the bush, lie down and die. Perfect.

The game regulations only stipulate that moose be shot with a single projectile (ie. not a shotgun) and with centre fire ammunition. So, they have been taken quite successfully with anything from the quarter-bores through the thirties and into the forties with regularity. (It is quite common to find that there are no two hunters in camp with the same calibre.)

I will have to re-visit the 285 ELD-M, as the last time I tried it, technique was definitely lacking and I was trying to push it too fast. Your figure sounds way more practical. But that will be next spring and summer.

I have made some experimental loads for the 45-70 that are around the 1600fps mark, but I have taken the 350gr FP (or RN, same bullet) Hornady and turned the meplat back to measure .365", this reduces the bullet weight to 333gr., so more speed and way more frontal area. If I can get them to around the 1800fps mark, I'm thinking they should hit pretty hard with good results. But they are still a work in progress (winter sucks for shooting).

18 Dec 2018
@ 12:30 pm (GMT)

Ed Sybert

Re: One Standard Cartridge and One Magnum
Paul:
What you're doing with the 45-70 bullets is very interesting, and I believe on the right track. I used to shoot at a club that used plywood for target hangers. I noted that every time I was shooting the WFN (wide flat nose) cast bullets on a newer target hanger I heard a resounding "thwack" when the bullet passed through the plywood backer. I believe this is related to the increased energy transfer form the extra-wide flat nose.
The traditional "Keith" design, with its smaller meplat did not give anything near the sound feedback. I've killed several whitetail deer with the Keith design bullets, but have not had the opportunity to try the WFNs. Maybe next year... -Ed

18 Dec 2018
@ 06:28 pm (GMT)

Paul Leverman

Re: One Standard Cartridge and One Magnum
As a further development, I was also thinking of a hollowing, but not really sure how far to go or how wide. Boys with toys, eh?
19 Dec 2018
@ 12:51 am (GMT)

Andrew Murray

Re: One Standard Cartridge and One Magnum
I quite like the idea. I haven't really shot any magnums in a meaningful way. I had 3 rounds of a 300 Win Mag off a bench. SAme as my Howa but without the heavy barrel, or bedding. Just some Remington factory ammo. It didn't seem to bad to shoot.

I'd consider that, maybe the 7mm Rem Mag alongside my 308.
20 Dec 2018
@ 05:42 am (GMT)

Paul Leverman

Re: One Standard Cartridge and One Magnum
So I didn't hijack Lane's thread, there's a pic of the 45-70 in "Test".

Sorry, Lane.
20 Dec 2018
@ 10:07 am (GMT)

Martin Taylor

Re: One Standard Cartridge and One Magnum
Lane we set up with a 308w & 300wm both Remington Police as per Nathans advice, the whys!
Practice/development..... lots of it. The 308 is easier on brass (cheaper/easily obtained), better barrel life & runs less powder.
Great learning cal for wind reading and general technique development with enough recoil to keep things honest but not beat you up.

This combo suited my end goal of taking large deer at range with a factory cambering but the same could be done with many combos like say a 7mm08 & 7RM.

So my thought was why burn out a Mag barrel developing technique, reloading skills etc. etc.
20 Dec 2018
@ 10:48 am (GMT)

Caleb Mayfield

Re: One Standard Cartridge and One Magnum
My favorite is a BRNO Mauser in 8x57 that you could say I sporterized. The only original parts on it are the action and ejector arm and screw. It fits nicely in the .308/.30-06 area in terms of ballistics and recoil.
I do not have a functional magnum yet, but I decided to stick with the same caliber and have been amassing brass, dies, and the necessary equipment and tools to swage my own heavier bullets to load into an 8x68S. I have an action blank to build off of, but I have a 300 WM to build for my brother first, after the new Fosterized reamers are shipping from Manson Reamers.
20 Dec 2018
@ 12:27 pm (GMT)

Joshua Mayfield

Re: One Standard Cartridge and One Magnum
For those intrigued by family drama, we realize that when Caleb has his 8x57 and 8x68S battery and I have my .30-06 and Fosterized .300 Winmag in play the potential for a major rift is large. We're preparing the children now to devise creative derogatory names for their cousins based on whether they shoot a metric or standard chambering. Mom and Dad are concerned, but accepting that some issues overpower blood ties. Our sisters don't get it, but they're choosing sides nonetheless. I've got a notebook of witheringly scornful slams to throw at Caleb about his inferior 8mm BCs and elitist pretensions that must inevitably surface in a man who shoots a cartridge developed by someone with an umlaut in their name. He, no doubt, will shame me in turn by pointing out that my chamberings are about as original as weak tea and that the belt on the Winmag cartridge is, after all, superfluous. He probably is practicing body gestures that will poke fun at the Winmag's short neck, memorizing lines to mock the antiquity of the .30-06... Dark times loom, yet we press headlong toward them.

Yes. I am sleep deprived and should probably be forced to take things more seriously. Happy holidays, everyone.
20 Dec 2018
@ 02:53 pm (GMT)

Lane Salvato

Re: One Standard Cartridge and One Magnum
Joshua, any red blooded American knows that the belt on those magnum cases is used to engage the flux capacitor. Redundant indeed!

23 Dec 2018
@ 04:21 pm (GMT)

tom winstanley

Re: One Standard Cartridge and One Magnum
If Caleb wants to stick with 8mm, and has the BRNO 8x57IS already, will the 8x68 be in a standard Mauser action? If so, I suggest considering 8x64 Mazon, as it requires a fraction of the action work of the x68. I imagine the x68 is a handloading proposition outside Europe in any case. The 8x64 Mazon is the same capacity, but only requires opening up bolt face and feed lips as required. It uses 9.3x64 Brenneke cases and Go/No Go gauges; reamer is available from JGS. Dies can be had from RCBS.

If the intention is to put it in a long action, all this is a bit moot.

cheers,

tom
26 Dec 2018
@ 07:24 pm (GMT)

Luis Vazquez

Re: One Standard Cartridge and One Magnum
Hi All:

Lane, I started out at an early age with the 308 shooting silhouette and then became part of the wildcaters that started using the 7x08 (7x308 we called it back then). It gave us better ballistics than the 308 and it knocked down the Rams at 500 meters unlike the 308. If you hit that silhouette a little low with the 308 it would not go down, it would just stand there and laugh at you, not really but it ticked off a lot of shooters when you can win or lose a match by 1 silhouette, let alone several ones that would not go down.

My dad was a die hard 308 and 30-06 fan, the 308 for competition and all purpose shooting, and the 06 was for hunting, that is until we started using the 7-08, then it all changed. 7-08 replaced all of his 308's and then the 280 Rem replaced the '06. Since then we have not shot or owned any more 30 caliber rifles

So, which standard and which magnum? My standard is the 7-08 and my magmum the 7mm Rem mag. For my dad the magnum was the 280 Rem, although not a Magnum by name it still has the power to knock down elk with no problem which is the largest amimal we hunt here. My brother's magnum is a 7mm SAUM, which is performance wise closer to the 280 than the 7mm Rem Mag.

We are big fans of the 7mm as you can see. With a well placed shot which should be regardless of caliber being used, in our experience you can't go wrong with any of these, but for larger game like Mule Deer and All, I prefer the 7 Rem Mag which gives me more speed on the heavier bullets offered for the 7mm.

Hope this helps and best regards

Luis
23 Feb 2019
@ 05:16 pm (GMT)

michael lavallee

Re: One Standard Cartridge and One Magnum
I love the 30-06 case , and my standard cartridge is either a 30-06 or 35 Whelen. Im really liking the 178 gr eld-x in the 06.

My Elk rifle is a 375H&H. I just enjoy that rifle
01 Mar 2019
@ 06:31 pm (GMT)

Jon Short

Re: One Standard Cartridge and One Magnum
Like 6.5 Warwick I shoot a 6.5x55 Howa for general every day hunting in NZ. I learnt to bed, reload & shoot well / correctly through following Nathan's advice & also have learned to shoot out to around 500 yds with a basic Leupold VX1 LR scope with this rifle. It is my hack so to speak but a very accurate rifle & potent for its caliber. Shot a reasonable no of reds & fallow with it.

To answer your question yeah I think an every day rifle of a lower wearing caliber is a good idea for regular shooting, hunting & form practice. Saves money too.

I also have an 8x57 custom I built for my dad which is also a great all rounder for normal NZ deer stalking. Very reliable caliber. Great red deer rifle. Sightron S2 scope that has disappointed me but is ok.

For my long range toy I have Remington LR 7mm RM. Bedded, tuned, loads worked up etc (as are the others) with a Sightron S3. Great scope. I haven't hunted that much with this yet (apart from testing it on a poor fallow... no shit it works!) but really enjoy shooting it. It is also my most accurate rifle as it should be.

Shot placement is always the most important priority regardless of caliber.

Life situations have prevented me from shooting & hunting as much as I'd like of late but thankfully that is now changing & I can learn to shoot the 7mm RM out long. Bring it on!!!

Cheers,

Jon
18 Jul 2019
@ 10:13 pm (GMT)

Peter Clark

Re: One Standard Cartridge and One Magnum
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