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Nathan Foster

Hi guys, I just want to run through training with Riley. I do not want to hash out hard won material from my book in this thread so will keep my points short as I try to get all of todays thoughts relayed. You can refer to the Shooting book and kin for more info.

My sole intention here is to get you thinking about approaches.

This week I wanted to get Riley shooting centerfire. I opted for the .308 as it is such a good training rig and I can slowly build up power. Riley is 9 years old and of a lean build. She is physically sensitive to anything.

Previous training was with 22lr in both an adult length rifle (10/22) and her little Toz with its cut down stock. Ammo was both subs and high velocity.

Moving on to the big rifle:

The stock is too long but the optics (Sightron) have excellent eye relief.

Load- 168gr A-MAX / ELD, 17 grains of Trail Boss compressed (must use drop tube), Federal magnum primer. Velocity around 1600fps. Scope up 4 MOA. Recoil? Yes but very light. Noise? Yes- but not so bad. Must fit ear plugs to child. Bullet drop negligible- a perfect velocity for 100 yard work without subsonic like trajectories.

Instruction:

Lay out ground sheet or blanket.

Lay down kid sized pack.

Ear plugs, hat or shemag over the child and scope if shooting into the sun.

Initial range 50 yards moving to 100 yards.

Explain that this is special ammo "just for kids!" but that it is still very dangerous.

Dad fires first shot. Make sure child is right behind you in a prone position so that no noise comes back.

Utilize crossed arm hold due to stock length. Explain why this method is being used (stock length) versus how a rifle is to be held otherwise (e.g. as a grown up- some irony to this when we consider 'expert' methods these days).

Study the child's body position, angle, leg position etc. Correct as necessary.

Set child up to cycle and dry fire the rifle. Watch for cant and watch for flinching (observe whether the barrel jumps about when dry firing). Keep repeating to the child "slow and steady on the trigger".

Finally, allow the child to shoot and then give plenty of praise.

I tend to reinforce the point that accuracy is about caring for animals and that this is more important than recoil. So if you love animals, then you have to forget about recoil and try to do your best for the animal. Riley responds very positively to this. Her first group was 1" at 50 yards. I then moved this target back to 100 yards. Consecutive shots at 100 yards suffered some wind drift with the second group printing right on the same target. Nevertheless, she settled down and stayed within MOA. Note also that this was new brass and ammo concentricity was poor. Riley can shoot very well. As always, training is the key factor. Talent is no match for time and persistence.

We did not fire a great many rounds and were able to stop while she was still in the zone and not fatigued. A high round count can be problematic in this regard. Anyone into natural horsemanship (childmanship!) will know the golden rule- stop on a high note.

Also consider reactive targets as discussed in the book. These add fun but also display the power of a rifle and therefore the potential danger.

Options moving ahead:

1. Dedicated youth centerfire rifle, stock of the correct length.

2. Steadily build up .308 loads and have her continue to shoot the .308, changing shooting methods as she gets taller.

The .308 is good in that when it is downloaded, it still yields relatively high energy. The load described above can be made to perform on game at very close ranges - but it does have its limits and I need to increase power as soon as she is able / old enough. The further we go down in bore size and bullet weight, the more reliant we are on high velocity. In other words, if using a .243 for training, you can make down loads for the range, but be very cautious about downloading hunting ammo. I would want to stick around 2700fps (87gr V-Max) at the slowest for the most sensitive shooters when hunting. But again, you may have to build up to this with plenty of training. There is no rule that states that your kids have to be successful hunters by age 5. Take it slowly.

Keep in mind that all of what I have mentioned here is relative to non-suppressed rifles. With a bit more time, Riley will be able to select a .223 or .243 rifle from the cabinet, look at the cartridge in comparison to the big .308's she was thumbing down in the M700 mag, and see the others as being small in comparison.

Also understand the importance of a good trigger set light and crisp. Heavy does not mean safe- see my books!!! Barrel direction equals safe, habits equal safe.

Remember that scope eye relief is critical if the rifle stock is too long. You must utilize a long eye relief scope. None of this Zeiss or Swaro rest you eye almost against the rubber and shoot till you bleed bullshit. Also that you cannot step up to full power loads with a stock that is far too long. You must either cut the stock down or wait for the child to grow into the rifle before adopting true high powered chamberings (eg .308 168gr @ 2670fps).

There are many ways to skin this cat. As long as your kids have some time behind a .22, they will soon be able to shoot larger rifles. Note also that air rifles tend to recoil a good deal. If you have a daughter, you may need to start her on a .22 with subs. That or cut the spring down within a cheap air rifle. Note also that you can use spring cutting like load development in reverse (accuracy testing), but its a one way trip.

I started Riley with open sights then moved to a scope because I would like to see that she is multi disciplined.

Boys tend to be more keen than girls so don't treat all kids as being the same. I started using a .303 at 13 years of age. Ours had a brass but plate and was sporterized (stock cut back for weight). I wore a singlet and could not care less about recoil when I first got my chance to shoot that rifle with full power ammo. I just wanted to shoot and keep shooting till I died of old age. The SMLE's always had a shortish butt so eye relief (scope or open sights) was not a huge issue. Cheek weld was nigh on impossible, just get your eye centered and shoot. My main concern- don't drop the rifle or the old man will put a boot fair up my jacksy.

Girls are different, often much more sensitive. In this regard, you must always keep an eye on fit versus recoil levels.

Last weekend I helped at the school gala. My job was at the paint ball rifle stall. Some poor shmuck ran around out front and got stung to hell. I only got shot once. Lucky me. Of note:

Very few people have genuine natural talent. One girl (guessing 14?) picked up the rifle as if she really was born to shoot even though she had never used a rifle of any sort before. I would never have picked her from a crowd.

It was impossible for me to get kids into good form within the space of a few minutes. I did my best but body conditioning takes time. Kids need weeks and months of training, not minutes or hours. The same goes for adults too. Note- If you have an office job, you run the risk of weakening your body. This can make it hard to shoot full power rifles. We must not neglect our bodies.

The AR style semi (paint ball or .223) is a pig for teaching boys. Boys just want to rip off shots as fast as possible. I often hear guys talk about the AR as being ideal for youths. If you have read my latest book, you will know my thoughts on this.

Hope that helps. Again, I don't want to rehash the book here, these are simply further notes for you to consider.