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358 x 55 Scrubber

15 Nov 2015
@ 08:39 am (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

So I been thunking about a rifle for my 1-4x24 Nightforce scope. As I have my 6.5x55 Swede and the 358 Winchester is based on the 308 case. I thought that the same 358 cal bullet on a Swede case in the long action would make for a nice 358 x 55 Scrubber!!!! What do you all reckon ???? Be Honest about it . It would be good as I will only need the one type of brass. Although its quite a big stretch from .264 to .358 and maybe the case wont have enough brass to neck up that much? Please have a think and get back to me? Also what make of action would you choose to use? Thanks in advance.

Replies

15 Nov 2015
@ 08:51 am (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: 358 x 55 Scrubber
15 Nov 2015
@ 07:09 pm (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: 358 x 55 Scrubber
Hi warwick
One thing I have learnt from this forum is anything is possible in saying that I think you are causing yourself cost and hassle for no real reason.
Lets look at your options, custom reamer add extra cost, custom dies add extra cost. Not as common brass as the USA caliber add more cost.
If you had a gun sitting there maybe but I believe you can fit a 35 Whelen in a mauser action.
You could go get something like a howa in short or long action and one of the nz barrel makers should have reamers in 358 win 35Whelen 358 norma mag and 35 Samba soon.
One other option is c.a.c in Taranaki that imports second hand guns might have a nice husky in 9.3x57.
I'll be very interested in hearing about it if you do go a head with it thou
15 Nov 2015
@ 08:53 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: 358 x 55 Scrubber
Could be done and run on Swede action Warrick to keep costs right down. The neck might be a bit thin and short though. This is my main concern.

It would be no big deal to run a Swede reamer into a chamber, then follow after with a Whelen reamer. Neck brass up with a hornady button (any .358 die), fireform cases, then send cases to Lee for custom die making.

Worth the trouble? Hard to say. As Thomas has said, you could run a .358 Win (.308 case) with a lot less hassle. In either instance, you would have a humane killing cartridge.

Hmm, the games we play.
15 Nov 2015
@ 09:01 pm (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: 358 x 55 Scrubber
Thanks for that Thomas. That's exactly the information I was looking for. It 358 x 55 would be a Wildcat in every way as any self-respecting Wildcat should be if it's to live up to its Name? Can you put the cartridge specifications into Quick load and get a rough idea of what you end up with at the range? Sorta like they design and build aircraft and ships in a virtual world and then operate it and service it in that virtual world to see what issues or problems arise.? It saves you from building a puppy.
You are right thou a 308 Remington 700 would only need a rebarrel to make a standard 358 Winchester. Done to a 30-06 would get it into a longer action and magazine which will allow bullets to be seated longer and keep using the 308 case so that it's still the 358 Winchester? Thanks for your advice.
15 Nov 2015
@ 09:43 pm (GMT)

Martin Taylor

Re: 358 x 55 Scrubber
I went through all these options a year or so ago Warwick, really wanted to build a 35 Sambar as my main deer gun. The costs just got to high with custom dies, reamers etc. which l would have built on a Winchester controlled feed SS action.

l couldn't buy new or at the time find a second hand stainless 35 Whelen bolt, so this is how l ended up with a 9.3X62, straight off the shelf in heavy or sporter barrel, blue or SS.
More or less gives you a beefed up Metric 35 Whelen with factory ammo as a back up option. So far it has stopped things bloody well with a mild load & 250 RN Woodleigh's up front. I also have the 225 Interlocks l made up ready to go just need to get back up the bush to try them out.

I love the Idea of wildcats but it's an expensive way to be a little different to the next bloke.

15 Nov 2015
@ 09:58 pm (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: 358 x 55 Scrubber
Got few coals for you warwick that might be handy 35 Whelen 3.175 225gr 358win 2.770 225grain 30.06 3.220 190 grain Swede 3.050 142grain
358x55 I would estimate around 2400fps.
the 450 marlin is 2.510 maybe necking a marlin down to 358? Think Nathan summed it up the games we play ha ha possibilities are endless
My 35/303 reamer is on its way from the state's if that's of any interest let me know will only need a new barrel on a lee Enfield no other mods or a p14 would make a nice conversion
15 Nov 2015
@ 10:14 pm (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: 358 x 55 Scrubber
Thanks Nathan you replied as I was chicken pecking my reply on the phone burk! Burk! Tap.... cluck. ....tap......cluck ........yeah nah world's fastest typewriter I R NOT!
So I can see the issues with using the 55 Swede case. So if I was smart and clever. I would use the least troublesome route to get the best results. A long action, 308 or 30-06 case with .358 barrel? So either a 358 Winchester or a 35 Whelen. I'm thinking the 358 Winchester on the long action.
15 Nov 2015
@ 10:40 pm (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: 358 x 55 Scrubber
If you look at the length of the 35 Whelen it's actually shorter then the 30.06 so you might as well use the full length of a long action even if you use a short throat reamer. Bit of freebore will help anyway.
Should through a 35 gremlin in the mix a 358x39 type cartridge .
Know how you feel warwick I'm stuck in a theory room on a block course so am also pecking at a smart phone
15 Nov 2015
@ 11:02 pm (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: 358 x 55 Scrubber
Thomas I have a few 303s in the gun safe ;D won't reloading dies be the issue.? I do like the idea. Your thread was the seed in my mind that I let germinate $#@! Let me mull some more over the pros not cons? That Scope would look lovely on a 12 gauge rifled slug of some sort? Stop day dreaming Thomas and concentrate on the course lol thanks mate.
15 Nov 2015
@ 11:05 pm (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: 358 x 55 Scrubber
Oops I got muddled up thanks Martin 303 35 with an 8 round magazine ;D
16 Nov 2015
@ 12:43 am (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: 358 x 55 Scrubber
I had a Lee 303 rgb set so I drilled out the seating die and installed a 35 caliber seating plug. You could also get the full length die neck opened up and use a 35 Whelen mandrel.
I use a hornady neck dies in 338 and 35 to make brass from 303 brass.
I will go custom dies once the gun is up and running. If your interesting I think if we use same reamer then could get to sets of the custom dies which include collet plus seating die.
Day dreaming about gun projects is what I do, my wife has stopped asking what I'm thinking about cause she doesn't understand the answer.
I also bring my own lube to block courses now as I have been screwed over that much all I can do is try and make it less painful ha ha
16 Nov 2015
@ 01:17 am (GMT)

Martin Taylor

Re: 358 x 55 Scrubber
A 30-35 would be a absolute cracker in the bush, ultra reliable.

l discussed this exact build or possibly a 35 Whelen SMLE when l was over with Nathan, he said to choose the model 303 carefully due to bolt design and strength to so it can handle the extra bolt thrust etc. Sorry can't remember his recommendation but sounds you guys are already onto it!
He also mentioned feed issues that will need carefully working out that come with most wildcat 303's.

Great project though, l was using an old 303 only a couple of months ago deer hunting, cost me a bloody good Sambar Stag but that's another story hahhaahaaa
16 Nov 2015
@ 06:11 am (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: 358 x 55 Scrubber
your spot on martin, i did bounce some ideas off Nathan and thankfully through one of his clients we ruled out doing an epps chamber.
i believe Nathan recommends a no4 action but if i only had a no1 mk3 i would still do it but you just got to understand the limitations.

i done a lot of playing around with few projectiles trying to find an ogive c.o.a.l that would work smoothly across the board.
L to R 200gr ftx 250gr hotcor 225gr gameking but the game king doesn't feed as smoothly as i would like

one issue i found was by expanding the neck the neck now rubs on the rib in the mag pushing the round to the centre, will lose some capacity depending on how warn mag spring is. i would rely on 6 round but have had up to 9 feed smoothly
16 Nov 2015
@ 08:16 pm (GMT)

Martin Taylor

Re: 358 x 55 Scrubber
Looks like a great build Thomas, it'll be tuff as nails in the bush, will be waiting to see your results with great interest!

Maybe you could sneak the very corner off the lip if it works out to be an issue.

Another pill that might help your feeding is the Woodleigh 225gn PP, they list it as working between 1800-2600. All the PP's l have worked with have had a nice shape, OAL 1.1".
16 Nov 2015
@ 11:50 pm (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: 358 x 55 Scrubber
Cheers Martin I have never worked with woodLeigh projectiles they are not very popular here for some reason but I'll keep them in mind.
I did seat few game kings backwards to check how they fed which surprisingly wasn't bad, might mean I can get away with using round nose projectiles to.

Those ftx should perform well but might get bullet blow up if I push them hard at close range time will tell

Just got to work out final few issues like barrel diameter and if I can dove tail a skinner from sight straight on barrel or need something like a marble front ramp.

Thinking I'll go a 22 inch no5 barrel to keep weight about where it is now maybe slightly heavier
17 Nov 2015
@ 01:45 am (GMT)

Martin Taylor

Re: 358 x 55 Scrubber
I'd be surprised if blow up was an issue, the engine room just isn't that big ......... but could be wrong. I would keep the barrel as hefty as possible with the bigger cal, Nathans good advice again!
l would change this on my 9.3 Tikka given my time over as it is available in the Varmint (which l found out to late).

I love the RN 9.3mm Woodleighs on Sambar that much I'm having to force myself to test the 225 Interlocks that l re-sized, hahahaaa.
Not sure how the RN's would go on smaller frames, we've had excellent results on young animals without bone being hit, multiple lung & low neck shots and all with a very slow/mild load.

When our 30cal Partitions run out the 06 will be getting fed either the Woody PP's or RN's as these are lots easier to get here & also priced ok!
17 Nov 2015
@ 06:03 am (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: 358 x 55 Scrubber
only thing that made me worry is it'll be a jump up from the 35 rem velocity that they are designed for but if they are pretty much a sst they'll be fine.

big jump from no5 to varmint weight barrels and it'll be a handy bush rifle that ill use while pig hunting, bit of a balance to be heavy enough to soak up recoil but not burden myself with extra weight.
did a lot of calculating measure barrel on there taking away bore vs no4 and no5 barrels take away bore size etc.

just been looking at woodleigh's projectiles it appears there's only 2 importers here none stock 358 caliber but looks like they would be around $100nz for 50, or thou i would never put saving cost over humane killing the hornady's are around $85 for 100 and same for speers.

its very good to support your local manufactures if we had a decent nz manufacturer i would support them to (besides they would be better then the ozzy ones anyway ha ha)
17 Nov 2015
@ 12:24 pm (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: 358 x 55 Scrubber
Thomas and Martin you guys are good value. Thanks for adding your valuable info to my post. How about getting some Bullet grade copper/zinc rod and getting a CNC Machine shop to wizz up a batch? To get the cut files just measure and record your flavourate Z-MIN boulit dimensions and wallah a few hours later. A 6 meter length of copper bar will be turned into a bucket of projectiles........?

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/gunsmithing/lathe-turned-bullets-180160/

17 Nov 2015
@ 08:37 pm (GMT)

Martin Taylor

Re: 358 x 55 Scrubber
I wouldn't go to a varmint with that build Thomas, would have been a better option for my off the shelf jobby that's all. Just keep it on the heavier side of the options you have is basically what Nathan said to me, it's a fair hole that removes a lot of weight.
Shame on the Woody pricing but they are a premium pill, compare prices with some Partitions, they are around the same or slightly cheaper here with better availability.

Happy to add some content Warwick....... I really love the medium to big bores in the bush, they really do shine as Bob has often shown with his posts about his .358. I have headed back towards the old ways, big & slow rather than small & fast.

Bit of a traditionalist when it comes to my pills, haven't liked any copper pills as a "one pill for all bush hunting situations" that we've tried yet. l know others love them but their not for me just yet.
 

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