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> Fire forming with trail boss
Fire forming with trail boss
@ 05:20 am (GMT) |
Ed StewartCan someone that has had experience using trail boss to fire form new brass to your chamber please point me in the right direction?I can't seem to get the brass to reach full pressure and size correctly, some of them flattened the primers off and sized the brass nicely. Others almost sized the brass and the rest of them ended up with the primers pushed out proud of the head of the case and didn't really size the brass at all. Calibre is .270Win, using Winchester brass, Federal primers and 130gr Hornady interlock SP I tried a range of charges of Trail Boss 18.0gr 18.5gr 19.0gr and 19.5gr 19.5gr filled the case to the top of the shoulder and seemed to size the cases less then the other charges. I neck sized all the new brass using a Forster die and powdered graphite for lube. I put the fired cases into my Wilson trimmer case holder and measured from the holder to the case head and the ones with the primers protruding are all around 0.7mm shorter. So I guess that means the case walls aren't expanding as much. Will crimping the projectiles into the case increase pressure and get them to size consistently? I am assuming that if they are not all sized the same it is going to cause all sorts of headaches with load development and COAL. I have attached some photos of the different primers (hopefully they link ok). Cheers, Ed. 
[/img]https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/xq2-Zjtgzl7Tf2URX4KCoYynHbg-HLKmCGhB-7cQszk?feat=directlink[img] |
Replies
@ 07:56 am (GMT) |
Chris MurphyRe: Fire forming with trail bossTry using a little less I used 15grn in my 7mm rm behind alsorts of old pills 140s-180grn when fire forming and they all came out good |
@ 08:09 am (GMT) |
Thomas KitchenRe: Fire forming with trail bossonly thing that comes to mind is primers? i believe its best to use magnum primers with trail boss but i could be wrong |
@ 09:06 am (GMT) |
Mike DavisRe: Fire forming with trail bossok I read that 4 times and one thing stuck out..you wrote the ones with protruding primers were SHORTER then said the walls cant of expanded as much......... I believe it could be the other way around...they expanded and "held on" to walls of chamber and didnt stretch to fit shoulder to bolt face...... I recently saw flattened primers with mild loads and re read about it in old Nosler manual..the primer pops then get flattened as case flies backwards looking like a hot load when its in fact a low one.hope that is food for thought, Im no help with trail boss as my loads are subsonic but yes I do use magnum primers..as thats what Ive got LMAO. |
@ 10:16 am (GMT) |
Bob MavinRe: Fire forming with trail bossG'day EdAll my fire forming has been done while hunting. With new cases I work up a load, increasing powder to get an accuracy node, then changing seating depth to get the best accuracy. I then use 100 cases for hunting. Then with the fire formed cases I start again with powder variations, then seating depth, then powder variation's again to squeeze the best accuracy. I can't see the point of wasting projectiles & powder just fire forming. Cheers Bob |
@ 08:24 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Fire forming with trail bossHmm, sounds like quite a large chamber, should be good for velocity generetion though.Yes, you can try crimping or that combined with some magnum primers, either Federal or CCI. Worst case scenario will be having to use full power loads. But as you can guess, such loads will not be indicative of final accuracy as the pre-fire formed brass versus FF brass will show some differences in velocities and pressures etc. Still, you will be able to perform some preliminary test work. As an example, if the rifle is accurate at e.g. 3100fps with preformed brass, it will most likely still be accurate at 3100fps with FF brass. The only trouble being that the FF brass might be going say 3025-3050fps with the previous powder charge, requiring an increase in powder. |
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@ 08:26 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Fire forming with trail bossAlso- a wedge fit into the lands (depending on cartridge design and whether you can reach the lands) will also help position the case in the chamber and increase pressure within the case. |
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@ 10:45 pm (GMT) |
Ed StewartRe: Fire forming with trail bossThanks for all your advice, I will see if I can wedge the projectiles into the lands this week. If not I will get some magnum primers and crimp them then try different powder charges. If I can't get them to form properly then I will use full pressure loads.I have always wanted to have a play with trail boss, if it works then I will use them for shooting rabbits, cats and magpies at under 100m around home. Plus the Hornady SP projectiles I am using to form them are only about 44 cents each compared to $1.80 each for the Nosler's I will be using for hunting. So it works out cheaper if I only have to develop loads once with the Nosler's |
@ 11:51 pm (GMT) |
Martin TaylorRe: Fire forming with trail bossEd you could try some reduced 2206H loads if the trailboss continues to grieve you.These work great in my 30's, I seem to end up around 65% of max load and the cases form perfectly with reduced recoil for plinking & training. l have found at the Hogdon 60% load the chamber soots a fair bit in both the 308 & 06. Won't be as slow or quiet as the Trailboss but they still work well in close! |
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@ 07:24 am (GMT) |
Ed StewartRe: Fire forming with trail bossWedging the projectiles into the lands with 18.5gr Trail boss is giving me nice and consistent forming of the cases. I guess by utilising this technique it holds the case head hard back against the bolt face and allows the brass to expand outwards and forwards.Now all I have to do is fire form them all and start load development. I made a few small changes to my reloading process after reading Nathan's last book and it improved my .22-250 from 1/2MOA to sub 1/4MOA. So it will be interesting to see what I can achieve with the .270 Thanks Martin I will keep that in mind for next time I need some reduced loads. |
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@ 09:25 pm (GMT) |
Martin TaylorRe: Fire forming with trail bossGood stuff Ed,little things can make a big difference hey, and the books are full of all sorts of info to help bring things together! All the 06 parent cases are easy to work with so should be a good project, let us know how you get on. |
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@ 01:35 am (GMT) |
Ed StewartRe: Fire forming with trail bossSo the latest is I have ended up with a load of 55.0gr AR2209 behind the 150gr Nosler partition. Grouping fairly well and an average speed of 2971fps but it has an ES of 19fps which is opening the groups up vertically. I haven't weighed and sorted any of the brass or neck turned it so it might just be a variation in neck tension. Have had a couple split necks already too after firing the brass twice. Will fine tune it and get it under 10fps then it will be great.Spent the day up at Woodhill yesterday on block 2 looking for a Fallow but unfortunately I didn't get to have a shot at any. Saw a nice young buck early in the morning but he was on a road we were not allowed to shoot down or across so we just watched him for a while. Hopefully I will get to test them out on an animal one day soon. |
@ 07:58 pm (GMT) |
Robert CameronRe: Fire forming with trail bossHi y’all,I’m pretty new to reloading and long range everything. (Have all of Nathan’s books.) Just wondering, by ‘wedging the projectiles into the lands,’ or words to that effect, do you mean make the cartridge length to maximum COAL? Or very close to? |
@ 05:52 am (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: Fire forming with trail bossHad a long winded answer that turned into a very long lecture/lesson in reloading. Decided it was not a good idea. So, sorry, I defer to more experienced people. Someone will answer shortly. |
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