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> Loading for a rifle with a lot of freebore
Loading for a rifle with a lot of freebore
@ 07:02 am (GMT) |
john feyereisnIn the 270 i just bought, a nice used 700 rem, there is alot of freebore, i will not be able to seat close to the lands with a 130 grain bullet. It is not due to mag lenth but i will not have enough bullet in the case. With 150s i will be fine, but are there any ideas to help if i wanted to get 130s to shoot well.One peice of advice i was given by a man who o have alot of respect for os that usually in this situation a bushing die with a slightly tighter than standard bushing, for more neck tension will help. Am i correct in thinking that this is to ignite the powder more consistantly? Or does neck tension not make enough difference in resistance to affect combustion/ignotion? Would it stand to reason that this rifle with long freebore moght show stronger prefrence in primers for that reason? |
Replies
@ 07:49 am (GMT) |
Mike DavisRe: Loading for a rifle with a lot of freeborethis will be an interesting one to watch.....now Ive been shooting my .270 for 26 years and have loaded ammo for her for nearly 20 of those. untill recently near enough was good enough. with bit of encouragement from guys on here Im now getting groups 1 1/2" CONSISTANTLY so are very happy with that. now interesting thing came out of the experimenting etc If the nosler ballistic tip 130s are loaded close to rifling there is no way in hell they will fit in magazine..they are just far too long telling me free bore is generous. my rifle has always likes big fat roundnose projectiles the box of 160grn lapuas went well and the last 5 I fired into group of 1" (to steal the new brass) the old old old speer 170grn (dwindling supply) projectiles also group nicely now I reckon they work well as they engage rifling much sooner and being so darn long are straighter from the get go. I see that a few fellas have stated that different types of projectile like different jumps eg barnes type..accubond type...BT type maybe use ones that "like" to jump would be a wise move???? hope that gives food for thought Im sure Nathan will be along soon to give some better advice. |
@ 07:50 am (GMT) |
Thomas KitchenRe: Loading for a rifle with a lot of freeborehi john.you might have to adapt the reload for concentricity technique that Nathan talks about in his book. load with base of bullet inline with bottom of case neck. you might find that the tight neck your talking about helps with concentricity. how much projectile is left in case when your close to lands? |
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@ 03:44 pm (GMT) |
john feyereisnRe: Loading for a rifle with a lot of freeboreI thank both of you for the input so far.Thomas, as for how much bullet is in the case, i do not remember the ecact numbers with varoius bullets i tried, but from memory i can tell you this: i like at least one bore dia in the neck of the case, so .27 for a 270, with 150 grain ballistic tips or partitions i had that but barely. I did not with the 130s 130 partitions would be my prefrence if i can get them to shoot, if not i have some 150s of sevral kinds that i am sure will suffice. Mike, i would be interested to hear of a certain bullet that liked long jump, i have heard barnes or some of the other solid copper bullets lare love ke that, but as Austin Powers would say, "That sort of thing is just not my bag, baby" i have had dismal results with them on whitetails in the past, not that they cant work, but i just like a light for caliber partition or a heavy soft bullet. |
@ 09:35 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Loading for a rifle with a lot of freeboreHi John, there is just so much to cover here. To begin with, the rifle sounds as though it has not been bedded or accurized in any way- its just some pieces of steel and a piece of wood that have yet to be honed, like a blunt knife.As for loads, in a lot of instances, people vastly under load the .270- even when they work up to book max. In fact, the .270 Win would have to be one of the most misunderstood, under utilized cartridges on the block. You would think it would be one of the most widely understood cartridges seeing as it also one of the most popular cartridges in the world. But if anything, the results simply highlight how much info / knowledge really is lacking when it comes to hunting rifles and cartridges in general, hence this site and hence my book series. Poor scale calibration and downright dirty rifle designs like the X-Bolt with the occasional 'who needs a throat anyway chamber designs' ensure that powder makers have to keep max loads right down. Neck tension is one piece of advice (or more correctly a random comment) that on its own, offers absolutely no help whatsoever. This comment is about as helpful as saying "I like boobies". A nice thought perhaps, but neither appropriate or relevant". What is required is a ground up, methodical approach starting with the rifle and much further down the track, finishing with the load. Be inspired, there is so much you can do with your M700 .270 Win. |
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@ 11:52 pm (GMT) |
john feyereisnRe: Loading for a rifle with a lot of freeboreAs far as the rest of the rifle, i have purchased a bell and carlson stock with the aluminum frame and i will be bedding it using your products, i have bedded several rifles and look forward to doing a higher quality job on this one with both your advice and products. The rifle is factory original other than the planned bedding and stock work, i am going to test fire it in the stock un bedded just to satisfy my curiosity, but a full load development will come, after bedding is done. I will try some of my favorite loads from other rifles but will be mostly working from scratch. That is the plan for the rifle, so even if its a terrible one, i have a plan! We will call this "Plan A" or for any Canadians, "Plan Ehh?"Nathan, i didnt really give all the background information, or explain my question fully. I am mostly asking if there is anything i should do differently working with the long throat, if they preffer a slightly faster or slower powder, certain bullets that work well when jumped ect. Or if i should just start from scratch and load 150s seated where i like. Any ideas will be appreciated. This may not be a curse, it IS throated pretty well for max case capacity with 150s, that coupled with the 24 in barrel should produce nice velocity. As far as misunderstood, i have a bit of a beef with 270s with 22 inch barrels. To me a mv of 3000 or just under with 150s with a bc of .5 or more with standard hunting bullets is a pretty balanced combo, my 7mm rem mag does that, and for my hunting this 270 should serve me well also. Another rant i have about under loading (unless you WANT reduced recoil) why would you not load to full speed? If i wanted a half throttled 270, i would just shoot a 7-08. I see this with the 7rem mag as well, why load a 7mag to speeds i can get out of a 270 or 280? Cheers Nathan! Sorry if i got long winded! |
@ 02:28 am (GMT) |
Charles BrabhamRe: Loading for a rifle with a lot of freeboreReduced loads in magnum cartridges do reduce recoil as noted, but there is more to it than that.They also reduce barrel damage in situations where full power is not necessary. This is also a way to obtain versatility with a given rifle. My 270WSM can emulate a 6.8spc, or a 270 Winchester with reduced loads - and come close to emulating a 270 Weatherby with full-power loads. For barrels with a long lead, crimping can give you much of the benefit to be had from having the bullet close to the lands. - That benefit being more consistent ignition - for more consistent velocity and accuracy. Kind regards, Charles Brabham Alpine, Texas |
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@ 03:53 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Loading for a rifle with a lot of freeboreI would agree Charles, especially seeing as I wrote the same in my reloading book. But again, crimping is just one variable and on the list of variables such as bedding etc, this goes towards the end after the other work has been done.John, it sounds like you are going to be working through the full process in a methodical manner. I would tend to avoid using past pet loads from other rifles and just start from scratch as you suggested. By doing this, you will gain a better understanding of the rifle, working from min to max and so forth, rather than applying random loads. As Thomas suggested, once the rifle is ready, concentricity is the key during a free bore space walk. Crimping can be added to the mix as outlined in the reloading book. There are many cartridges which utilize a good deal of freebore including the tried and true .308 Win. |
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@ 06:38 am (GMT) |
Thomas KitchenRe: Loading for a rifle with a lot of freeborehi john.sounds like you got a good project to keep you busy for while. have you got Nathans books? they really will help you along the way. i would think about getting some factory ammo ( i know Nathan likes federal blue box for this but depends on what your gun likes ) to test gun to get a base line then test it as you go along, otherwise when you change a lot all at once then try to reload, if you run into issues there so many possible problems it becomes hard to find a solution. do something like test fire gun as is. trigger mod or replacement and bolt lug lapping test again. bed rifle test again. if you change mounts or optics test again. then move into reloading. Nathan if im more of an ass man then a tit man do i have to worry about neck tension then or just the tension when the wife see's me looking at some other woman's ass ha ha |
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@ 05:46 pm (GMT) |
john feyereisnRe: Loading for a rifle with a lot of freeboreI guess i need to stay more current with this site, i was thinking nathans book on reloading was still in the works. I will order it soon. |
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@ 09:31 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Loading for a rifle with a lot of freeboreThomas, if you wife gets her hands around your neck, I would say yes.No worries John. Yes, the book series is mostly complete now. Am currently working on the final book on field work. This covers basic shooting technique through to advanced long range shooting. This is the most difficult book to write as I do not want to scare anyone off with long range math. I need to walk the reader through this math in such a way that he or she is willing to go the distance rather than chucking it in, looking for easier answers and wounding some poor animal out long. |
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@ 11:08 pm (GMT) |
Mike DavisRe: Loading for a rifle with a lot of freeboreand that last line and a half is why you have my utmost respect and admiration.....your no BS approach and honest answers set you apart.good on you Mate. |
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@ 01:09 am (GMT) |
john feyereisnRe: Loading for a rifle with a lot of freeboreQuote: and that last line and a half is why you have my utmost respect and admiration.....your no BS approach and honest answers set you apart.
good on you Mate. The approach is a big part of it, but what i also have a lot of respect for is all the knowledge here on the site and untill someone buys a product, he has made no money, this is why i make it a point to patronize him when i can. Watching his videos on how to bed a rifle, then purchasing it from another source would be a douchbag move for sure. I am with Thomas, more of an ass man, but i like boobies too! I sincerely wish you great success with your business and writing, hopefully the site and books gain you the notoriety you deserve, i know the site and your books have helped me immensely. |
@ 10:06 pm (GMT) |
Thomas PavelkaRe: Loading for a rifle with a lot of freeboreSome years back I was shooting mainly big bores. At the time I had a Ruger No 1 in a 45-70 but reached a peak with IMR 3031 and the devastaing Speer 400 grain bullet.As luck would have it I chanced upon an older Ruger No 1 that had a lot of freebore. So I jumped all over it and went to the loading bench when I got home. Powder capacity was greatly increased and I now could seat to the back cannalure of the Speer 400. It was indeed a great day. The following day I went to the range. I set that puppy on the sand bags and touched one off. As the tears rolled down my face the great lightbulb went off. While well within pressure limits, it is not wisdom to light off 458 Winchester mag loads out of a 7 1/2 pound gun. Lesson learned :) |
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