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Forum Index > Rifles general discussion > 7mm accuracy issues

7mm accuracy issues

18 May 2015
@ 02:38 am (GMT)

Jared Thibodaux

I have now reloaded for more rifles then I care to count, .223s to .458 calibers I have little issue extracting sub MOA accuracy out of any of them even some rifles older then I am. But for some odd reason every 7mm I have loaded for has given me issues, two 7mm Rem Mags and a 7mm-08 have frustrated me more then you can imagine (Thought I did eventually find the magic for the 7mm-08)
At first I thought it was just the freebore but after weeks of playing with seating depth I abandoned that idea, then I thought that they just did not like boat tail bullets but flat base did not shoot any better. ALL of the various 270s, 308s and 30-06s I have loaded for have been 1" or better by the second trip to the range yet the 7mm bore eludes me, and for some reason the SSTs that perform so very well in .264, .277, and .308 cal SUCK in 7mm (worst of any bullet tested in all three)
Has anyone else had this kind of problem? Is there something I could still be missing? Tried everything from IMR 4350 to H1000 with no luck, 139-160gr. The Ruger I was not expecting 1/2 MOA shooter but the Savage has been a letdown, I always bust tacks with Savage rifles.....
Anyone have a magic load that has always worked for 7mm Rem Mag because I am all out of ideas.

Replies

18 May 2015
@ 07:04 am (GMT)

jason

Re: 7mm accuracy issues
You will find a few good posts on this if you look at past threads.
Myself found the 154 sst hard to get grouping. It was ok but not what I hoped for.
With thoughts of it being my fault not being able to shoot straight. That was until I tried the amax.
But anyway look at those old threads plenty of good info in there.
18 May 2015
@ 07:11 am (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: 7mm accuracy issues
hi Jared
what do said rifles shoot like with factory ammo??

what dies are you using for reloading?

the 7mm-08 might be easiest to work on, start with using Nathans technique of bottom of projectile inline with bottom of neck or 1mm shorter then magazine length.
and work through your powder charges 3 shots .5grain increment.

hopefully someone with more experience then myself can help.
18 May 2015
@ 06:28 pm (GMT)

Jared Thibodaux

Re: 7mm accuracy issues
I am using RCBS full length resizing dies. The two 7mm Rem Mags hold 1.5-2" groups with factory core-lokts and federal blue box, and that is about as good as I have got them with most handloads. The 7mm-08 shot ghastly aprox 5" groups with every kind of factory I tried, what that saved that gun was Ramshot Big Game powder and H380 both spherical powders shot superb while all extruded powders shot like crap, second weirdest thing I have ever seen handloading, 140gr SGKs over a max load of Big Game go around 3/4" (@2950fps!) every time and 120gr Pro Hunters shoot one ragged hole over a mild dose of H380, funny to think it will hardly hit paper with factory ammo. 150s and 160s shot good over H380 also but their speed was a little on the mild side so I stuck with the 140gr SGK for deer hunting.
Thus far the absolute best I have done with the 7 mag is about 1.25" group using 150gr Ballistic Tips and IMR 4350 @ 2980fps, while that is OK it was not confidence inspiring and we all left the 7 mags at the house during hunting season since the WSM and 300 Win Mag shoot much tighter.
19 May 2015
@ 02:25 am (GMT)

john feyereisn

Re: 7mm accuracy issues
My savage 110 shoots best so far with a 67.5 gr of imr 7828 cci mag primer and 150 nosler balistic tips.
4350 and 4831 did not work very well for me, re22 worked well but not quite as well as 7828. I shoot partitions at close range and they are not quite as accurate as balistic tips so far.
Good luck, and keep us updated
19 May 2015
@ 02:52 am (GMT)

Jim Moseley

Re: 7mm accuracy issues
Straight from the Nosler book. 150 gr BT / 68 grs 7828/ Fed GM215 primers/ seated .010 off the lands. Shoots in the .2 and .3's. This was in 2 Remington Senderos 7 mags.
19 May 2015
@ 03:52 am (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: 7mm accuracy issues
What is the barrel crown condition? Swap the scope with one of your others? Start looking for the easiest thing that might be causing the problem? Check everything that is required for accuracy to ensure that nothing is being overlooked? It's important not to invent problems. Write down a list of things to check and tick them off as you do them? Use Nathan's books and I'm sure that you can get it to tack drive or find out why it won't.
19 May 2015
@ 05:15 am (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: 7mm accuracy issues
hi Jared
think there might be alot more at play here then your handloads as warwick has mention. think its a big ask to shrink your groups from 2" to sub moa by handloads alone.
i really recommend nathans book as it'll really help you to achieve whats your aiming for.
if you still keen to try more hand loads.
have you got a straight neck sizing die? if not look at the lee collet dies they are very accurate and a good price.
try soft projectiles to.
im not familiar with to many projectiles, try the amax's or even the interlocks spring to mind. 1 thou jump if no luck try 2 thou.
whats your extreme spread like when you said extruded powder shot like crap?

19 May 2015
@ 07:41 am (GMT)

Jared Thibodaux

Re: 7mm accuracy issues
Oh that was with the 7mm-08, I discovered Ramshot Big Game before I got I got a chrono so I don't know what my ES was, but I had absolute fits with that rifle, hard to imagine that simply changing powders changed it from a 5 MOA shooter to a sub MOA but I swear that is the case. But that is only the second weirdest thing I have ever seen realoading, I have a 308 that shoots remarkably tight with 150gr and 180gr bullets of several makes with several different powders but won't group with any 165gr, showed the results to my rangemaster and he could not believe it either. We like to think reloading is some exact science but sometimes it seems like some voodoo is involved.
No my only issue now is getting these 7mm Rem Mags to group, bugs the hell out of me because they are the only two rifles in the house that won't go under an inch, even the really old Browning BBR and beaten up Remington 742 are shooting tight, I was just wondering if anyone else had any such frustrations with 7mms or if I am just having some really bad luck with that caliber.
19 May 2015
@ 07:56 am (GMT)

Jon Short

Re: 7mm accuracy issues
Hi Jared,

I understand your frustration. One thing at a time brother. That's all you can do, work through things one rifle at a time. I am no expert by any imagination but thought I'd mention a couple of thoughts for what they are worth...

Just to state the obvious... do you have your king bolts & scope bases & rings torqued up correctly? There is a remote chance something could be loose.

Can you post photos of your groups? Are the rifles bedded etc?

Like Thomas, I prefer neck sizing too & the Lee collet dies are excellent. Easier on the case & arguably more accurate in that it fits your chamber better once fire formed. I don't even bother with full length sizing because once the case has had 5 firings or so & becomes to tight to chamber, the primer pocket is buggered/loose anyway.

Thomas, no offense intended but do you mean 10 thou & 20 thou? eg 1/4mm & 1/2mm bullet jump?

Re: 7mm RM, I too use 162G Amax & SSTs in my Remmington 7mm RM LR & manage around 1/2 minute groups ... on a good day when the stars are aligned... I've bedded this rifle. My load is 73G of AR2217. 3060fps on chrono maybe a tad more.

I have heard through Nathan & his books that the 162G SST can be finicky in the 7mm RM. I was lucky, point of impact at 100 yds very similar. The Amax is slightly more accurate for me. Same happened with my 6.5x55 Howa with the 140G Amax vs SST.

Nathan's books are all excellent & easy to read & understand. A bit of a bizzare SOH too which makes a laugh. Otherwise if you need to call him, donate generously if you don't already, because the advise he can give you can save you heaps of time & aggravation, & none of this, his site etc would exist without those that do donate.

Cheers,

Jon
19 May 2015
@ 08:19 am (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: 7mm accuracy issues
My Dad bless his soul. Gave me some sound advice that I love him for sharing before he passed away 23 yrs ago. It was " There's only one thing worse than good advice! NOT LISTENING TO IT" .........?....
Man he was a Crack shot with his Parker Hale 303. 6 1/2 inch paint tin lids @ 300 yards with open sights . I miss my Old man . I have that Three oh! I should dust it off and take it to the range next time.?
Check everything mentioned on that rifle and I think you will get it sorted.
19 May 2015
@ 08:50 am (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: 7mm accuracy issues
thank you for picking that up Jon yes 10 thou then 20 thou.
straight out of master guru's book
playing with seating depths after initial loads select best group
initial jump 10 thou
charge increase .2gr 20 thou jump
charge increase .5gr 40 thou jump
charge increase 1gr 60 thou jump.
voodoo alright Jared somethings in life will never make sense to me like when two shots are touching in a group it seems hard to get 3rd shot to touch, or when my wife wants me to understand what she's not explaining
19 May 2015
@ 09:03 am (GMT)

Jared Thibodaux

Re: 7mm accuracy issues
No Jon my rifles are not bedded, but from what I have heard Ruger 77s are not a good rifle for bedding because of one of their action screws, and to be quite honest I never thought about bedding a Savage because up until now I have always gotten tack driving accuracy with them, mind you not with every bullet I have tried, something about that button rifling seems to make them very very bullet picky, but between SSTs, SGKs, Ballistic Tips, or Speer BTSP I always have found at leased one that they like.
I have not put a torque wrench on the scope mounts but I doubt that is the problem, I can give it the same load I sighted it in with and the center of the group stays in the same place.
I have not tried the A-Max yet, not because of lack of interest but every time I tried to buy some they have always been sold out in 7mm sadly.
Don't have any target pics on me but I might go back to the range in the next couple days and snap a few, three shot groups are almost always a near perfect triangle on the Ruger and the Savage is weird shot 1 and 3 will be touching while shot #2 will be 1.5-2" above the other two never below or to the side always vertical, never seen another rifle that groups like that consistently.
20 May 2015
@ 12:13 am (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: 7mm accuracy issues
Do you talk to your bullets? Maybe they are not very good at following directions
Draw a map and show them the target at home so they know what to aim for. Sing some "Rage against the machine" songs to them as your driving to the range next time. Oh and make sure they have been to the loo before going? Nothing worse than constipated bullets!

Wasn't it Einstein who said " You can't solve a problem if you're thinking about it the same way you were when you created the problem"?

Are they northern hemisphere bullets or southern hemisphere one's. If they are the wrong types then there spinning the wrong way and will be fighting against the earth's rotation and magnetic field of gravity? You had better check it out.!
Let us know how you get on. Have a Tutu (play) with it? I'll be waiting for the results of your careful and precise fault eliminating process.!

20 May 2015
@ 04:50 am (GMT)

Martin Taylor

Re: 7mm accuracy issues
Interesting read this one, lots of good advice.

Harmonics can be a bitch hey!
22 May 2015
@ 07:42 am (GMT)

Mike Davis

Re: 7mm accuracy issues
Jarad......can you PLEASE do just one thing for me??????
please take scope off and check scope BASES...... Ive had 2 of my 3 centrefires go dog on me in the last few years and both has bases work loose. the .270 hasnt been touched in nearly 30 years and was driving me nuts till I found that out.
23 May 2015
@ 01:51 am (GMT)

Jim Moseley

Re: 7mm accuracy issues
Mike Davis has a good point. I had assumed you had checked those items. It's the little things that will bite in the butt. Good luck.
26 May 2015
@ 04:27 pm (GMT)

wayne mcinnis

Re: 7mm accuracy issues
I have no problems finding good loads for my 7mag its not picky at all. 150 and 160 noslers and 4350 or 4831. 7stw is about the same
27 May 2015
@ 12:27 am (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: 7mm accuracy issues
Quote:
What is the barrel crown condition? Swap the scope with one of your others? Start looking for the easiest thing that might be causing the problem? Check everything that is required for accuracy to ensure that nothing is being overlooked? It's important not to invent problems. Write down a list of things to check and tick them off as you do them? Use Nathan's books and I'm sure that you can get it to tack drive or find out why it won't.

Mark & Jim . He's been offered good advice. We're all here to help and support. I make a list and follow the advice and tick off the check list as I go. Starting with the easiest thing to check out working on to the hardest things last. It's like doing Calculus! You use what you know to find out what you don't.? The balls in his court now. I hope he picks it up and uses it?
 

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