cart SHOPPING CART You have 0 items
SELECT CURRENCY

Discussion Forums

Search forums
Forum Index > Rifles general discussion > Surest Drop em in their tracks shot placement

Surest Drop em in their tracks shot placement

12 Mar 2015
@ 04:19 pm (GMT)

Thomas Pavelka

With a couple of exceptions I have always placed my bullets behind the front leg and taken out the lungs and possibly the heart.

I've a had a good number of the animals drop in their tracks. Those that didn't, didn't go far.

The more I research here, the more I am thinking I should move it forward a bit and take out the front leg/shoulder on the way in.

It only makes sense that if you take out the pillars that are holding the animal up, it HAS to go down.

Understandably, the bullet will have to have weight, be long for the caliber, and will need to hold together for such work.

Am I on the right page here?

Replies

12 Mar 2015
@ 07:01 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Surest Drop em in their tracks shot placement
This is the trouble with calling my books the long range series when they have in depth info on these matters and also rifle selection for general work, not just long range.

In short Thomas- yes.

You can go long for caliber soft or short for caliber stout- depending on game weights and within reason.
13 Mar 2015
@ 06:55 am (GMT)

Mike Davis

Re: Surest Drop em in their tracks shot placement
for years my old .270 dropped animals pretty much on the spot for me...aiming for offside shoulder,at least trying to break one worked for me. these last few years the ones that have moved off or just stood havent had the shoulder broken.
big red hind at 250ish last year case in point, first shot went through heart..she just stood there for 30 seconds or more!!!!! I couldnt get steady enough to try for neck so plastered 2nd round through shoulder,instant reaction,straight away she staggered and fell.
18 Mar 2015
@ 07:10 am (GMT)

Dale Wilhelm

Re: Surest Drop em in their tracks shot placement
I remember being taught years ago that the worst shot you could make is a direct heart shot. The reason for this was that by destroying the heart completely there was nothing to pump out the blood and larger animals would tend to run up to 100m before realising they are dead. Very little, if any, blood trail is left as the heart can't pump it out. In the kind of country I hunt that could mean a lost animal. I have even seen this with smaller game such as hares and magpies.
Apparently the better option is to go slightly higher and take out the blood vessels that take the blood to the lungs and brain. With this the heart is still pumping blood and the bleed out time is very quick. There is some fancy name for this that I can't remember.
Personally if I'm meat hunting, and even when I was culling, with time for a carefully placed shot I will head shoot. Least damage to meat, quickest and most humane kill. Although margin for era is small so you need to know what you are doing.
19 Mar 2015
@ 11:48 pm (GMT)

Mal Birrell

Re: Surest Drop em in their tracks shot placement
High shoulder shot that then hits the spine is a good one.Don`t need to hit center of spine,couple inches either way is ok.
Mal
20 Mar 2015
@ 02:27 am (GMT)

Martin Taylor

Re: Surest Drop em in their tracks shot placement
Between this post and the other it’s been said a lot that a "shoulder shot" or Autonomous plexus shot (sorry if spelt wrong Nathan) is the preferred shot of most deer stalkers I know. Very effective and always a fast kill, remembering and allowing for angles.

But whilst hound hunting with running deer this shot is often very hard to take as the animal runs, jumps and dodges under & around things at full speed. I often find myself taking forward lung shot (30cal) and the biggest run l have had with that shot placement is about 40 yards with a sp projectiles (not Barnes).
I have seen a heart shot animal (also 30-06) full of adrenaline run 300 yards at least without a blood trail, which we call a dead run. This is why l have gone to the 9.3mm for this work. So far the shock to the animal has meant very fast kills, even with purposeful marginal shot placement.

So calibre/projectile/energy & shot placement is still a combination that needs to fit the purpose is what l ‘m trying to get at.
20 Mar 2015
@ 03:47 am (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Surest Drop em in their tracks shot placement
Talk about a thread double up.

OK, the spine shot has several problems that you all need to be aware of.

1. When shooting offhand, we tend to shoot high, even in close with the rifle zeroed for close work. It is important to learn to aim low as a habit in order to avoid high misses.

When snap shooting offhand, aim very low.

2. When shooting at extended ranges, newbies have a tendency to want to aim high as they cannot get past the idea of the shot being long and the bullet dropping. If environmental factors cause trajectory changes, the shot will be a miss.

Aim center or aim for specific conditions (advanced).

3. When encountering game species that are unfamiliar to you. Some game animals have very long dorsal vertebrae. Pigs for example, have their spine roughly a third of the way up, then dorsal vertebrae, then razorback bristles. If the rifle does not have suffient power to render a wide wound, the animal will drop from spinal shock, then rise and make good its escape.

Aim center.

4. Angles can cause shots to run too high. Anyone who lives and normally hunts on flat to rolling land and has a habit of spine shooting / high shoulder- will run into problems when shooting up or downhill in steep country.

Aim low.

We can trick shoot for the spine when we know our stuff- and have a bullet that can do the job. I talked about this as a trick shot for the .222 (shallow but normally wide wound). But I do not believe this makes the .222 and excellent deer rifle and I do not believe spine shooting is a good recommendation in general.

Use a decent cartridge.

We form habits when shooting, some are good, some can be highly detrimental if we change game species, ranges or conditions.

As for the heart shot- yes, 300 yard dead runs are not uncommon.

All of this is based on watching clients over the years along with deliberate research.
20 Mar 2015
@ 04:05 am (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Surest Drop em in their tracks shot placement
Forgot:

6. When using underpowered ammo- eg base 6.5x55 and 7x57 loads or loads that do not create a wide wound at lower velocities (as per last video). If the shot goes high by an inch, the animal may drop, then get up and run. If the shot goes low by an inch, its a no mans land wound, nether a lung or spine shot due to the narrow wound channel. Without rib damage, animals can be lost altogether.
20 Mar 2015
@ 04:27 am (GMT)

Martin Taylor

Re: Surest Drop em in their tracks shot placement
These posts could go for ever & ever! haaaaa
20 Mar 2015
@ 04:58 am (GMT)

Bob Mavin

Re: Surest Drop em in their tracks shot placement
You right there Marty
I'm a responsible shooter, I don't take risks, I use a range finder and take very careful aim, if I can't be certain of a clean kill I don't shoot, there's plenty more Deer. Pigs & Goats, cat's & Fox's, f'n smash e'm anywhere as long as you kill them. Humanely & painless of cause!!!!

Bob
20 Mar 2015
@ 05:01 am (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: Surest Drop em in their tracks shot placement
this is very interesting discussion for someone like me that's a first generation hunter.
one shot i have done few times on goats is shoot centre of chest with the goat looking head on, it seems to drop them pretty quick but at a guess it would puncture the gut so no good for meat animals??[b]
20 Mar 2015
@ 05:19 am (GMT)

Bob Mavin

Re: Surest Drop em in their tracks shot placement
Quote:
this is very interesting discussion for someone like me that's a first generation hunter.
one shot i have done few times on goats is shoot centre of chest with the goat looking head on, it seems to drop them pretty quick but at a guess it would puncture the gut so no good for meat animals?? [b]


I forgot to add I use a adequate calibre, 30-06 or 358 Winchester, I shoot around 200 Deer a year, double that a couple of years back.
Cheers
Bob
20 Mar 2015
@ 05:39 am (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Surest Drop em in their tracks shot placement
Yes it could go on.

From the front- sometimes, if the bullet is not prone to wide wounding, you can (as odd as it sounds), miss all of the vitals from a near dead centre shot that runs a bit low. It can pay to pick a side, just slightly offset from centre- if the cartridge is prone to narrow wounding. As for gut fouling, if you can get in fast and bone the animal out without gutting it, you will get away with little meat tainting. Really, its a case of placing the meat within an inch of your face and having a good sniff.

Again cartridge power / wounding comes into the equation.

Ridge to ridge with animals facing up or down and spine presented, the spine is a good point of aim. Same if the animals are straight below you and feeding towards you- also can be very forgiving as far as shifts in POI go with steep angles. Can be good from a high tree stand with animals coming in facing head on (aiming for the neck with error extending back into the chest cavity). But also lots of meat damage in some instances.
20 Mar 2015
@ 03:12 pm (GMT)

Thomas Pavelka

Re: Surest Drop em in their tracks shot placement
One thing that becomes very apparent here is that we take our killing of game very seriously. And that is a wonderful thing. Seeing an animal flopping around and bleating and suffering has never done it for me which is why I have for the most part have been seriously over gunned for most of my hunting life.

I have never lost an animal that I intended to take. And of them all, only one managed 50 meters because I was enthralled with a 350 grain round nose bullet in a Ruger No1 45-70. Absolute wrong bullet for Whitetail deer with lung shots. Perhaps if I'd have gone for the magic spot ahead of the front leg it would have dropped in place. Or even a shoulder shot might have done it.

None the less, the deer ran but it was not a problem recovering it as the blood spore was quite evident. By the time I made the 50 meters it was quite dead.

I for one loathe the chaps with the automatics that hunt here in the Mountains. Don't get me wrong, some think along the same lines as we do. But the majority hunt in a fashion I call "Spray and Pray". I rapidly leave an area when I hear shooting like that. One comes to know the difference between an aimed shot and those that are simply emptying the gun.

It is comforting to know that Nathan has a devout following, and that our game will see a quick and merciful demise.
20 Mar 2015
@ 09:06 pm (GMT)

Martin Taylor

Re: Surest Drop em in their tracks shot placement
Haaaa, Here is another one Thomas,

Sambar Deer, front on shot @ 130-150, slightly elevated. 308W 150gn Interlock.
Hit the brisket (not sure if thats correct terminology), anyway right in the middle of the chest, dropped the animal without a step, hit the deck bloody hard, crashed onto the big rock it was standing on and didnt move! high fives all round, job done.
Walk around and down off the small bluff to collect my prize to find the animal gone. Found him 8 days later, 60 yards away all wedged up under a fallen tree (where he fell). We could not find the animal with all the fresh sign around in all the thick under growth. My ownly lost animal for as long as l can remember.

So as Nathan said l now pick a side if the same shot is on offer and I'm also gunned up a little more.
22 Mar 2015
@ 01:41 am (GMT)

Thomas Pavelka

Re: Surest Drop em in their tracks shot placement
Martin by Friend, I did a very similar shot on my Bear last Fall. Only difference is I was 10 meters up in a tree and within muzzle blast range which may just have been what saved my bacon. That shot went in where I put it, angled down, cut the heart in half, liquified the lungs, and the Bear did a jump an flopped dead.

It may have something to do with the Berger 168 grain VLD I launched on him with the 30-06. All I know is it worked.

The thing that makes me real nervous is, can I do that trick again.

30 Mar 2015
@ 07:06 am (GMT)

allan behrends

Re: Surest Drop em in their tracks shot placement
Most effective shot I've seen on our northern whitetails (some more than 300 lbs) is a high lung shot, just behind the shoulder. 90%of the time they fall on their nose, but bullet must p ass within 2 inches of the spine to create this effect. Heart shots almost always insures a run of 40 to 200 yards+. Of course a double shoulder shot almost guarantees an instant kill it's messy to say the least !


 

ABOUT US

We are a small, family run business, based out of Taranaki, New Zealand, who specialize in cartridge research and testing, and rifle accurizing.

store