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Cleaning barrel questions
@ 04:40 am (GMT) |
Ben GradyHi NathanI have read what you suggest in your books but need clarification on a couple of points to do with cleaning and breaking in a barrel. I am in the process of breaking in my new barrel and have fired 12 rounds through it so far. Today I shot five of those rounds at a target 362 yards away while mucking around on the way home from hunting with another rifle. There was copper seen in the muzzle with the naked eye so I have used hoppes to remove the carbon and then boretech eliminator as my solvent. I put the solvent through with a jag and left it for 15 minutes. I then scrubbed it with an undersized brush with a cloth patch and more solvent. This came out blue so I then put a couple of clean patches through and then re applied the solvent. Which I am about to scrub again shortly. My question is how do you know when it's clean? Do the patches turn blue from the copper brush and brass jags? So will they keep coming out blue forever? I don't own a bore scope so is there another way to inspect the bore for copper? Is there any thing else you may suggest that I should do? Who sells brushes that are not copper? cheers Ben |
Replies
@ 12:13 pm (GMT) |
Mike NeesonRe: Cleaning barrel questionsHi Ben, I've just ending running in my barrel. If the jags are really blue, then you are removing copper. What I did was run a wet patch through, wait for it to work and then swab out with a dry patch. I was using a brass jag and when the jag came out with a very light tinge of blue, I took that as just the jag reacting to the solvent - barrel clean. Also keep checking the muzzle - it will tell you straight away. It is perfectly normal to have a lot of copper fouling during this process as the tooling marks and minor burrs get thinned out. My first range session was two hours and I only fired three shots - the rest of the time was spent waiting for the solvent to work. It all came together great. After about 15 rounds hardly any fouling. I did polish the throat a couple of times though. (The match barrel was lapped before chambering so I was working against the left over tooling marks/burrs)Light tinge of blue (with brass jag) = clean (in my book) |
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@ 12:18 pm (GMT) |
Mike NeesonRe: Cleaning barrel questionsOh, and you can buy nylon brushes - most gun shops will have them. Boretech have their own solvent safe brushes, but to be honest, any nylon brush will do the job if you want to go that way. |
@ 04:40 pm (GMT) |
Jake longRe: Cleaning barrel questionsI use nylon jags and brushes strictly now for this reason. They have held up great for me and do a fine job. I have found that if I clean my rod as well it greatly reduces the number of patches till clean. Another handy cleaning aid is a squeeg-e jag by Remington. It pushes all the junk and liquid out in one sweep. Follow up with a few patches and done. [b] |
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@ 07:31 pm (GMT) |
Ben GradyRe: Cleaning barrel questionsThanks Mike and Jake.Basically my process is the same as yours mike, my gunsmith fired the first six shots to get it on paper and 3" high @ 100yards (with factory ammo). He cleaned the barrel after each shot. Now I shot the five rounds yesterday and then cleaned the barrel as discussed in the first post. So I have swabbed/scrubbed it twice now after leaving the solvent to soak. Then I put a hoppes patch through to neutralise the solvent. These came out clear with just a smidgeon of blue. So just to check I will leave solvent to soak 15mins today and then swab/scrub out and run new patches through to see what happens. And then I will report back. cheers Ben |
@ 08:54 pm (GMT) |
G DogRe: Cleaning barrel questionsHi Ben,Another blenhiem rooster here. :) Everyone has a different way of doing things and I think after time once you know your barrel via shooting it and cleaning it you'll end up knowing what works best for you. I use hopes and boretech too. The way I do it is similar to most except that I don't use brushes often, but when I do it is nylon. After I go hunting or shooting paper I clean the powder out with hoppes. Put 3 patches through - leave for 15 mins. Patch dry, then run wet patches through and dry etc. Then I use boretech to get rid of the copper - My rifle has a pretty rough barrel so getting the copper out can be painful - but it's a case of putting wet patches through and letting it soak in. Job done. The key for me is that with the rough barrel - I don't completely take the copper out. I leave a wee bit in so my first shot is not a fouling shot and when I have an animal lined up at 400yds on a clean barrel I know it's going to drop. This is something I've had to work out via shooting and cleaning - as I said at the start - you'll end up working out what works best for you. Eventually I'll give the barrel a complete copper clean out - then I'll fire a couple of shots just to get some copper back in there and clean as per norm again. Good luck, and Enjoy getting to know your rifle - but please don't over complicate things - be realistic in what your end goal is - we chase accuracy a bit too much sometimes and it's silly, especially when the majority of us won't take a shot at an animal over 400yds normally. |
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@ 08:55 pm (GMT) |
G DogRe: Cleaning barrel questionsapologies if the above is hard to read. I had it paragraphed out but it hasn't posted that way.Cheers, Grant |
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@ 09:17 pm (GMT) |
Ben GradyRe: Cleaning barrel questionsThanks G Dog - That's three members from Blenheim along with Chris Murphy.The update is I have just scrubbed the bore again after leaving the solvent for 15 minutes (with a cloth patch over an undersized brush). This does help pushing back and forwards in the barrel. The patch came out blue again and then I put a clean dry patch through on a jag and it came out with just a touch of blue. So because the scrubbing patch was blue I am guessing that there is still copper present that is reacting with the solvent? So I have again soaked the barrel with solvent and will give it another scrub soon. Then I will report back again. |
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@ 09:29 pm (GMT) |
Ben GradyRe: Cleaning barrel questionsI know you are really busy Nathan but it would be great if you could do a you tube clip of you cleaning a barrel and actually showing the patches etc after each scrub. And the amount of blue and carbon the books talk about. And when/what colour is good and means the fowling is gone to a good enough degree.I don't think many hunters like myself clean a barrel properly. We generally put a couple of patches of Hoppes through and maybe a solvent now and again. My latest rig I want to start shooting long range so cleaning properly will be important. I have started using CRC long life to protect my barrels. Just a thought............. cheers Ben |
@ 10:14 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Cleaning barrel questionsOK, will keep that in mind. I would have to turn the comments box off as I am quite unorthodox as per the book series. I get in and beat hell out of the bore, a lot of folk would get upset based on old misconceptions.The book series is important because it gives me the room to try and lay all the cards on the table- and this then extends into the reloading book as well (fouling section) after the accurizing and maintenance book. It really is quite an in depth subject and one we have to keep an eye on. |
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@ 10:21 pm (GMT) |
Ben GradyRe: Cleaning barrel questionsO.k, I am now thinking I have been flogging a dead horse. And that the blue has been from the copper brush. I scrubbed the barrel again and the patch over the copper brush was soaked blue. So I pushed it out the muzzle and removed it from the cleaning rod. Then I put a brass jag on the rod and pushed a clean dry patch through and this came out spotless. I then pushed a patch with hopes through and a couple of dry patches and they all came through clear.I shone my torch into the muzzle and cannot see any copper fouling with the naked eye. But I think if I did it again the patch over the brush would be blue again. I will try and get hold of plastic jags and brushes and then I will know if it's copper fowling or my copper brush that is causing me grief. cheers Ben |
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@ 12:19 am (GMT) |
Jake longRe: Cleaning barrel questionsBen, this use to get me all the time but make sure to wipe down your cleaning rod often. It will deposit dissolved copper and powder back into the bore. If you're using a bore guide, the tip will sometime cause you massive amount of unneeded work when you could just clean both with a rag. |
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@ 01:17 am (GMT) |
Mike NeesonRe: Cleaning barrel questionsBen, the reason the scrubbing patch on the brush comes out blue is the bronze bristles have a large surface area in contact with the solvent and will colour the patch quite heavily. You are still getting good effect when you scrub though. Scrub, dry patch, then put a wet one through and let it sit. Then run a dry patch through and that will tell you. You don't need plastic jags etc. The effect of the brass jag on the solvent is minimal. Plus as you said, looking in the muzzle shows no copper - that's good enough! Some copper is good. If there is fouling in the throat, it will likely leave a streak all the way through the barrel - that you can see from the muzzle. From what you describe your barrel is clean. Grease it and put it away. Happy days.BTW have you given the barrel and throat a scrub and polish as described in Nathan's book? Not only excellent for break in but also longevity of the barrel. |
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@ 07:43 pm (GMT) |
Ben GradyRe: Cleaning barrel questionsHi MikeThanks for the reply. No I haven't polished the throat. My gun smith said the bore would have been lapped. I have never polished a throat before so I will have a re-read up in Nathans book and if I'm confident I will give it a go. I cannot remember the steps he uses. I did order some nylon brushes and non-copper reactant jag, just to see if there is any difference. Not much of a cost to buy and I am interested to see the result. I will report back my findings. It certainly is a lot to take in from the book series. From accursing the rifle, consistent load development, cleaning the rifle properly and maintenance. I am picking out what I think are the major contributors to consistent good terminal ballistics and working on each of these. It's great to get answers to my questions, no matter how lame my questions may seem. Because then I can put that baby to rest and move on to the next step. cheers Ben |
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@ 04:03 am (GMT) |
Ben GradyRe: Cleaning barrel questionsHi GuysHere are my Nylon brush and copper brush. And my brass jag and copper resistant jag. I have wrapped the brushes up in cloth as if cleaning my barrel. I have put a patch on each jag. I have then soaked them in bore tech eliminator solvent for 5, 10 and 15 minutes. Below are the results. Not very scientific but it does get you thinking. Someone else may want to do a more in-depth test. 
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@ 03:55 pm (GMT) |
Jake longRe: Cleaning barrel questionsWow, that really puts things into perspective. Looks like a lot of people might be chasing a "white rabbit" if using copper brushes and jags.Thanks for the visual. Jake |
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@ 08:08 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Cleaning barrel questionsGood photos Ben, thanks for sharing.There are still times when a bronze brush has to be used. Its something we can't really avoid. If a bore has very heavy copper fouling, solvents will sometimes fail to break through because much of the chemical action is exhausted at the outer most layer of copper. In such instances, if using a nylon brush, it can take over 8 hours to clean the bore. But by using a bronze brush, we can mechanically cut into the copper fouling and reduce this time from hours to minutes. Another example of a need for a bronze brush is in heavily carbon fouled barrels from suppressors or brakes. If the fouling is hard packed (and the rifle now very inaccurate), even if we use a dedicated carbon remover like KG, the same occurs as per the above example. To recap on the book and offer further insight as to my practices: After using a bronze brush or white poly pad on a worn bronze brush, I wash the brush. Lets say I scrub the bore for a few minutes, I will then wash the brush and leave the rifle to sit. When I am ready, I will come back and start over. If the bore is a heavy fouler, I will repeat the previous process. Then eventually, I will push a patch through to clean the bore of solvent. With the barrel solvent free, I will start over with a fresh patch / white poly pad or rag (depending on the bore) on my cleaned worn bronze brush. I will then put some Eliminator through the bore, swab for 5 to 10 seconds, then study the patch. I am OK with a faint hint of blue because of the above reactions you showed in the photos. But more often than not, the solvent has not yet had time to draw and blue from the brush and if there is blue, it is from the bore. But still, I do not get too carried away with this. Throughout the process, I continually check the muzzle, inserting cotton buds into the bore to reflect light. Butg remember, I put less emphasis on muzzle cleaning as I want the muzzle to be my gauge. No point seeing copper at the muzzle, then working heavily at the muzzle because I will then have no idea of what is going on within the b ore without a bore scope. So we can keep the muzzle as a guage of sorts. To clean the bronze brushes (and nylon), we can use brake cleaner or hot water (can use dish detergent). If using hot water, I blow dry with an air gun or sun dry. I hope that helps a bit. |
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@ 08:11 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Cleaning barrel questionsI should mention that I often have 3 to 4 rifles in a row, waiting for cleaning from range work. I cannot afford to spend hours cleaning them each day as I would never get any other work done. So my methods need to be relatively simple, fast and effective. |
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@ 08:02 pm (GMT) |
Ben GradyRe: Cleaning barrel questionsGenerally I do run my copper brushes and brass jag under boiling water. (Although not every time).It was a good experiment to try. At least now I won't keep cleaning the barrel forever getting blue patches with the copper brush. I will use the copper brush to remove the worst copper fowling and when I think it is done I will put a patch through wrapped around the nylon undersized brush and I will use the copper resistant jag. And make sure I clean them all with boiling water afterwards. Too easy :-) Ben |
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@ 08:05 pm (GMT) |
Ben GradyRe: Cleaning barrel questionsQuote: Generally I do run my copper brushes and brass jag under boiling water. (Although not every time).
It was a good experiment to try. At least now I won't keep cleaning the barrel forever getting blue patches with the copper brush. I will use the copper brush to remove the worst copper fowling and when I think it is done I will put a patch through wrapped around the nylon undersized brush and I will use the copper resistant jag. And make sure I clean them all with boiling water afterwards. Too easy :-) Ben P.S Now I will be able to sleep at night...... |
@ 11:26 pm (GMT) |
Bob MavinRe: Cleaning barrel questionsI've had blokes at the range tell me there rifle is perfectly clean, no sign of blue. Thinking the barrel was shot out as it's not shooting as accurate anymore. I've turned the rifle so the sun shines down the barrel and you can see the copper. It has to scratched with a bronze brush to let the solvent work. |
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