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> oil the bore Nathan?
oil the bore Nathan?
@ 05:17 pm (GMT) |
Craig HenardI had oiled the bore of the 7mm rem magnum stainless Long range rifle in anticipation or the very humid conditions we have here in Arkansas for the opening of deer season.I just wanted to oil over the fouling as you mention in your book. I used a thin plain oil(Montana Extreme gun oil). I then shot the rifle the day before deer season(shot it on the 7th)to check for point of impact changes. I shot a box of the Federal Blue box 150 grains. No change with the horizontal but the vertical impact seemed to be changing as I shot the rifle. Finally after an entire box of ammo it settled down. I had used a Patch with perhaps to much oil on it and pushed it in and out of the bore 2 times then before I fired the rifle I used a dry patch and pushed it in and out 4 times to dry the bore and hopefully just leave a tiny amount or oil in the bore. There was some powder fouling that came out and left the bore looking clean. The point of oiling over fouling is to leave the fouling in to keep the same point of impact right? Perhaps I used to much oil and or to tight fitting a patch. Should the oiled patch be tight or just barely touch the Bore ??? Right now the bore when inspected with a bore light and Magnafying glass looks like a sewage pipe!Full of fouling but no copper. Is the fouling corrosive?? Should I get it out or just oil over it? It shoots fine but I am just concerned about keeping rust out. I mean if I clean it all out then I will have to use another box just to foul it again !! I am also concerned that there is no visible copper to my ey anyway.Could their be copper UNDER the fouling ?? Any way I got a 150 pound whitetail doe ! Shot her at 240 yards almost facing me with the Federal Blue box 150 grain. The bullet impact was on the point of her left shoulder and she dropped at the shot. Later when gutting and quartering her the bullet fell out on the shop floor. It was stuck in the right Hind Quarter really between the skin and the meat. The bullet had lost its core and had a small piece of Jacket sticking out at a right angle to the bullet. I will take a pic of bullet later as I always give my 77 year old mom the case when I kill a deer,this time I give her not only the case but the bullet as well ! Thanks , Craig |
Replies
@ 08:41 pm (GMT) |
Mike NeesonRe: oil the bore Nathan?The fouling you want is the copper. The copper is under the burnt powder. Use a simple carbon solvent to clean the carbon out and you will be able to see the copper under it. It worries me that the carbon holds too much oil and could lead to hydraulic problems. When I cleaned the rust out of my barrel, it was a very loose bore, I needed to fire 10-15 shots before it would tighten up. I would then clean out the carbon and leave the good copper in. Then a light coat of lanotec/WD40/Softseal over it. It may then take one shot to get back POI - lay down a fine layer of carbon and it's good to go.PROBABLY THE CHEAPEST CARBON CLEANER OUT THERE IS WINDEX - not the vinegar one, but the one with ammonia. It's not a hardcore carbon cleaner, but will get most of the gunk out so you can see whats going on. I use the cheap stuff to get the crap out and the expensive stuff (Boretech Eliminator) to then clean out the copper. The gun oil you speak of is probably too thick? The carbon left in your barrel is only corrosive if it can absorb water and hold it. The corrosive milsurp stuff left a salty residue in the barrel that absorbed water - hence corrosion problem if not neutralised - this was where I got the tip to use windex to neutralise the salt. It also turned out it cleaned out the gunk pretty well too. |
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@ 10:17 pm (GMT) |
Craig HenardRe: oil the bore Nathan?I have hoppes #9 .would the Windex be better for JUST cleaning the fouling out and leaving the copper in?Does using either one require neutralizing after use? The gun oil is VERY thin in consistancy Mike. Do I want to use a tight patch for cleaning the fouling out or a an easy to push through patch? Same question for applying the oil? Then dry patch to leave a fine film of oil? Thanks Craig |
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@ 11:43 pm (GMT) |
Mike NeesonRe: oil the bore Nathan?Hoppes will remove the carbon nicely. I believe it doesn't have any copper solvent in it. Personally I use a tight patch. The copper isn't going to notice. It needs to be dissolved or scrubbed with an abrasive to remove. If you're storing the gun, then the amount of oil you apply shouldn't be a problem as long as you remove it with a solvent - like hoppes or spirits. If you have done fouler shots and then plan to go out shooting, if the barrel is stainless then a very fine amount will do. "Just wet enough to feel it on your fingers" It all depends on the conditions you're hunting in I guess. The stainless is reasonably idiot proof. Just basic care and don't sweat it too much. Even just lubing at the end of each day and carrying it dry would be fine... it all depends on whether your walking along a coast line, pushing through tropical forest or slugging it out across the dry plains. If the bore has been polished and the pores closed over in the break in period, it will be quite resistant to corrosion. |
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@ 12:51 am (GMT) |
Craig HenardRe: oil the bore Nathan?I am not storing the rifle just trying to keep rust from developing while hunting.Humidity is 70 to 80 % during hunting season.Let me make sure I understand this. I will be going hunting again in three days. I clean the powder fouling out of the barrel using Hoppes . Push a patch with the hoppes on it thrugh the bore and let it sit for how long before going back with the dry patches? After cleang the powder fouling out of the barrel then I will need to foul the barrel with a shot or two and then oil over the fouling and go hunting or do I apply the oil as soon as I get the powder fouling out , dry patch it and then shoot a couple of foulers with the reasoning that a tiny amount of protective oil will be left in the bore even after the dry patches and fouling shots,and then go hunting ?? Was in a hurry and my breakin period consisted of shooting a couple of boxes of ammo through the rifle. Thanks Craig |
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@ 01:05 am (GMT) |
Mike NeesonRe: oil the bore Nathan?Craig, you are over thinking this. Does your cutlery go rusty on a humid day? No. Obviously a different grade of stainless, but same principle. Just clear out the powder fouling, super light oil and just check it at the end of each day. From personal experience, rushing the process is a mistake... as we tried to tell you. |
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@ 01:40 am (GMT) |
Craig HenardRe: oil the bore Nathan?Mike I just wanted to know whether( for less poi changes) whether to oil over fouling or oil before fouling.Dont really think I was over thinking the process by asking the question. There is a distinct difference I would think. If I knew I wouldn,t have asked. I had to rush the process as rifle was away at the Remington factory for much of the time and I had to get it sighted in the alloted time I had available to me to be ready to go hunting. ...as we tried to tell you ? What the heck is the so called "We told you so" for Mike? I have done what I could for what little time I have ACTUALLY had possesion of the rifle. No need to be condesending about what I could have,should have,didn,t do . I was merely asking questions about the powder fouling and the details. Craig |
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@ 04:52 am (GMT) |
Mike NeesonRe: oil the bore Nathan?I sincerely apologise Craig. What worked for me may not work for you. I had to shoot 15 or so rounds to build up the copper. Because of the carbon build up, I cleaned it out, fired another shot to confirm my POI was on and then lubed the barrel. Thats all I did. |
@ 02:57 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: oil the bore Nathan?Hi Craig, sorry for taking so long, been swamped here.There is a possibility that this is a slow fouler and that it is equally reliant on a level of carbon fouling, not just copper fouling to maintain an ideal POI and accuracy. Hoppes may shift some of this layer so you might have to use something a bit more basic as far as oils go, then fully defoul every 100 rounds or so. I do tend to use lube in a generous manner during storage and if the rifle is stainless, I will pull it dry before hunting- though I often re-apply some light oil to the throat section as described in the book. If your rifle is really sensitive, meths would make a good degreaser after storing the rifle with oil. The meths will strip the oil but lacks the aggression to strip the carbon or any copper residues. Later when it comes time to fully strip the bore for general maintenance, it will be interesting to see if the bore has been holding any copper whatsoever. OK so thats one possible scenario. A second possibility is that your POI shifted as the barrel gradually warmed. When I am test shooting, it can take me up to 2 hours when studying a bore if I want to keep it at ambient temperatures. The barrel or the powder may have been slightly sensitive to temp changes. I pulled a blue box load a few minutes ago and although it was a stick type powder (normally more stable than ball), the kernal size was very small (like 2206H or H4895 but not a Hodgdon / ADI powder). So gradual heat, even though subtle, may have been a factor. The question I have to ask is, getting way from the POI shift, how was the grouping. If the group was OK, then I would say that heat is the culprit here, not fouling or a lack thereof. In this instance, the first group you shot was the correct POI. Yes, I have seen stainless rifles corrode in high humidity due to the hygroscopic nature of carbon. There is a photo of a completely ruined rifle muzzle in my first book. But keep in mind that this does take some time. The situation is not the same as when dealing with chome moly barrels, the accuracy of which can be diminish within days under certain conditions. That is about all I can offer without being there to study the rifle Craig. After this season, it may help to work up a hand load. Your hand tool may be sufficient. Cross that bridge later. I am thinking perhaps a fast stepping load with a soft bullet that swages to and fills the bore with ease. Hope that helps a bit. |
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@ 05:06 pm (GMT) |
Craig HenardRe: oil the bore Nathan?Quote: I sincerely apologise Craig. What worked for me may not work for you. I had to shoot 15 or so rounds to build up the copper. Because of the carbon build up, I cleaned it out, fired another shot to confirm my POI was on and then lubed the barrel. Thats all I did.
Apology accepted Mike Thanks Craig |
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@ 06:10 pm (GMT) |
Craig HenardRe: oil the bore Nathan?Hi Nathan,Yes rifle groups fine just poi change of approximately 1 1/2 inch vertically.I would shoot 3 shots and then completely let the barrel cool to the touch (20 minutes or more)before shooting again.took over 3 hours Our deer season goes out on 12/25/2014 After this point in time I will give it a thorough cleaning. But for now I am concerned about the powder fouling attracting and holding moisture.Paid to much for the rifle to let the barrel rust because of negligence on my part. I did notice when oiling over the fouling originaly that the oiled patch came out somewhat dirty and obviously pushed some of the powder kernels out of the barrel.bore looked clean to the eye. I last shot the rifle a week ago today and have done nothing to the bore since. Before oiling Barrel had approximately a box and a half of ammo through it and really not much fouling to speak of other than a few Kernels in the barrel. Rifle putting 3 shots into 1/2 inch at 100 yards with the Federal load. After oiling and dry patching and shooting about 10 rounds rifle still shooting great just an inch lower or so POI. except at 250 and 300 yards some horizontal (about 2 to 3 inch )group dispersion,then after 15 rounds or so horizontal dispersion went away and POI came back up to original POI . Now barrel looks like a sewer pipe full of Powder fouling! Nathan I will be going hunting again in a couple of days. If you were in the same circumstances as me (with the barrel looking like a sewer pipe full of Powder fouling)and hunting In 70 to 80 % humidity would you A /Leave barrel alone till after hunting season(12/25/2014)?? OR B /clean powder fouling out and lightly oil bore and go hunting?? Thanks for the Help and suggestions Craig |
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@ 08:25 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: oil the bore Nathan?With stainless, nothing is going to happen in a hurry so don't panic about carbon too much. Throat wear is a slight concern but if you are hunting rather than plinking, your round count will be low.Anyway, here is what I would like you to do. Jack the scope turret up 6 clicks (or down depending on which way it needs to go) so that the POI is correct for the first shots as opposed to the last shots of your box of 20. Run a very lightly oiled but reasonably tight patch through the bore 3 times just to remove surplus powder fouling, leaving an embedded layer of carbon (which will soak up some lube). Use a very light lube as per the book. Before you hit the hills, use a lightly wetted patch with methylated spirits to swab the bore (4 strokes will do) to remove lube. Just a really quick clean that does not remove the base carbon fouling layer. Finish with a dry patch. The patch will look a bit dirty- too bad. Do not touch the bore thereafter unless you need to. So lets say you swab the bore dry this Tuesday to go Hunting Wednesday- and you don't see anything on Wednesday, leave the bore as is and continue to leave it till either the season ends or shots have been fired. See how you go with this. You can re-investigate things after the season ends. Again, I can only make a best guess as to the correct approach without having the rifle in hand- then hope like heck that I have given the right advice. Nevertheless, I think this strategy will be sufficient and help ensure success. Try not to see the rifle as being finicky. It may simply be our lack of understanding as to the best practice for this rifle. Handloads may end up being a simple fix. I should also mention that sometimes during a tutorial, a client will start the day shooting one way (one POI), but then the POI gradually shifts as the client finds his feet and gets into the zone. This can either be a case of non solidified technique or unfamiliarity with a new rifle. It can us a while to get our mojo sometimes. Identifying problems of this nature requires careful analysis. This will be the subject of my final book in the series. |
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@ 09:53 pm (GMT) |
Craig HenardRe: oil the bore Nathan?Hi Nathan,I will do as you suggest .Methylated spirits is just any Denatured Alcohol(rubbing alcohol 70% Isoproply 30 % Water) like can be found at Wal Marts etc isn,t it ?? Thank you so much for the detailed instructions on what to do in this particular situation. I am eagerly awaiting your next book Nathan. Once again thank you Very much Nathan. Craig |
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@ 01:18 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: oil the bore Nathan?Yep, you got it Craig.Thanks. |
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