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Is more better?

18 Sep 2014
@ 10:58 am (GMT)

Daniel Schindler

Greetings everyone. First post. I appreciate being a new member to this community.

The question is: should I purchase a .270 Weatherby Mag and if so, which rifle?

Among various rifles, I own a factory, non custom .270 Win which I very much enjoy and trust. I am older than most here and am contemplating trimming down my small rifle collection to 3 or 4 rifles. IF I purchase the Weatherby, I would likely let the Winchester go.

I will keep my varmint rifle and my big bore for things that bite or gore. I'm not UNhappy with my .270 Win, just asking if more 270 is better?

Lastly, I've not gotten into dialing scopes to a certain range. My ranges typically vary from 200 yards to approx 450.

All suggestions welcome. Thanks.

Dan

Replies

18 Sep 2014
@ 11:03 am (GMT)

Daniel Schindler

Re: Is more better?
Ps,......
Forgot to mention, this rifle will be for various deer, hogs, up to elk.
Thanks.
Dan
18 Sep 2014
@ 04:24 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Is more better?
Hi Daniel, welcome aboard, you are in good hands. There are many men of your age group here so you do have people on the same page as yourself.

Well, there is one thing you can do with a .270 WBY, you can drive the 160 grain semi point hard and fast on Elk- and it will still shoot plenty flat. So that is one advantage.

This is a bit of a tough call because I have some gentlemen tell me that as they get older and begin to rationalize their gun collections, they have a tendency to lean towards lighter recoil. Its a common trend. Having said this,. the .270 Weatherby is not one of the most high recoiling magnums, so that certainly adds favor. Furthermore, the Weatherby will help you shoot out long- though I would prefer to see you perhaps experiment with a dial capable scope.

To be honest, I am not so sure about selling a rifle that is well loved and trusted. I think I would prefer to see you try to put funds towards the WBY and wait until you have the rifle shooting straight before selling the Winchester. That would be my best advice. With a new gun, there is always a risk of a dud bore or finicky performance.

I have a couple of questions Dan. Do you hand load or use factory ammo for your .270 Win. If you hand load, what load have you settled on?

(SL- if you are reading this. It's not too different from you adopting the .264 WM and getting into a dialing a wee bit huh. I believe you have found the process quite rewarding.)

18 Sep 2014
@ 04:52 pm (GMT)

Daniel Schindler

Re: Is more better?
Nathan,

Thank you for the prompt reply. I am currently out of town.

I used to reload, a lot, various calibers. No so now but have a dear, trusted friend who does commercial loading. We trade out services and he does my reloading. Current load is directly from the Nosler website, stating this from super, sometimes reliable memory. The target MV for the 150 gr Partition was 2,950 fps. I think we're at 57.5 gr H4831sc. Very acceptable exterior and terminal results.

You are dead right, a very cogent observation on the recoil question. A little more would be acceptable whereas a lot more would not. Understood, that's subjective and my call.

I won't let go of my Winchester prematurely, good call Nathan. Thanks. I hear rumbling of inaccuracy with this particular Weatherby cartridge, sometimes? A concern, not necessarily a deal breaker, looking for respectable, not match standards.

I completely understand that more and bigger is not always the best choice. In this case, I was just wondering how many might believe the advantages offset the disadvantages?

Thanks again Nathan. Hope all is well.
18 Sep 2014
@ 05:07 pm (GMT)

Daniel Schindler

Re: Is more better?
Nathan,

Very sorry, I'm taking business calls and forgot to answer one of your questions. Dialing. I currently use a Zeiss rangefinder with my Sightron 2, Big Sky, 3x12, mil-dot, no complaints. I use educated guesstimations on elevation and wind adjustments, I know, old school. But not opposed to dialing. I cannot afford an expensive Zeiss, Swarovski or NiteForce dialing scope. Can maybe spend approx $500-$700. Any advice on dialing scope would also be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Dan
18 Sep 2014
@ 06:14 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Is more better?
OK, I just wanted to check that you had used your current rifle to full potential. Many people use very basic loads and never get to see the full potential of the .270 Winchester. Unless you have chronograped it already, I would say your current load is going around 2880fps which is close to full potential.

If you treat the .270 WBY like a .308 Winchester, you will be OK. Don't try to seat close to the lands, seat bullets flush to the bottom of the case neck for optimum concentricity. Have the rifle bedded (properly- not by some chop shop) and the trigger tuned to 1.5lb. Use Norma brass. Neck size cases. As long as the bore plays ball, all should be well.

As for optics, a slight step up would be fine. Have a look and a think about one of these three Sightron scopes please:

SII 4-16 x 42 MD
SIII 3-12 x 44 LRMD
SIII 6-24 x 50 LRMD
18 Sep 2014
@ 09:59 pm (GMT)

Daniel Schindler

Re: Is more better?
Thank you Nathan.
19 Sep 2014
@ 02:34 am (GMT)

Mike Davis

Re: Is more better?
as a long time .270 user I will stick my neck out and say go other way if anything. Ive had my eyes opened lately to the potential of the .270 win if you load it with 110 grn all copper bullets TTSX in particular. you get the speed and flat trajectory without the increase in recoil and the energy figures stack up too. from the pictures Ive seen on tested projectiles and having seen what they do in .223 with 50grn I am sold on the idea. they wont do the barrel stretching shots but at ranges you have said they may well be worth a hard look.
or to ask your question back to you...what advantage will you get???
for what its worth I normally shoot under 300 yards and use 130s in the open and 170grn in tight bush.
when I eventually run out of current lot of projectiles (average 5 shots fired 3 to check sight and 2 per kill) it may take a while but the ttsx will be next purchase for the ol cannon.
19 Sep 2014
@ 10:41 am (GMT)

Daniel Schindler

Re: Is more better?
Mike,

Astute recommendation. Thanks. Will definitely consider.

I didn't feel the WSM offered enough advantages to switch. The bee? The substantial velocity increases are, from what I'm hearing, real. And tempting. As I said, I've not been disappointed in my Win.

Sorely tempted but still contemplating. The Win will stay home though :-)

Can you please tell me about barrel fouling with the Barnes?

Thanks.
19 Sep 2014
@ 04:46 pm (GMT)

Mike Davis

Re: Is more better?
I havent had an issue with standard cleaning...Nathan may have something more to add on this.
I believe the early all coppers MAY have had an issue but the modern jobs have got it sorted.
19 Sep 2014
@ 04:54 pm (GMT)

Mike Davis

Re: Is more better?
this may help thought process http://huntingnut.com/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=10008
19 Sep 2014
@ 04:57 pm (GMT)

Mike Davis

Re: Is more better?
link didnt work...www.hunting nut
big game hunting forum
129grn thread by Slimjim
19 Sep 2014
@ 05:16 pm (GMT)

thomas kitchen

Re: Is more better?
sounds like a 270 weatheby would be an interesting project, I'm sure a lot of guys would know the difference but is there much in it between a 7mm rem mag and a 270 weatherby?
19 Sep 2014
@ 05:35 pm (GMT)

robert meikle

Re: Is more better?
hi bud my mate uses the 270and it hurts after a few rounds. I use a 7mm rem mag Remington police model no more recoil than my 243. the 7mm shoots fast flat I use it for every thing fox to red deer. the 270wsm I have not used but the 7mm is a go to gun. I have used this site to get the best from it and when I do my bit it will not disappoint. want fast flat very hard hitting go 7mm rem mag
19 Sep 2014
@ 09:30 pm (GMT)

Daniel Schindler

Re: Is more better?
Quote:
link didnt work...www.hunting nut
big game hunting forum
129grn thread by Slimjim


Mike,

Slim's report was outstanding. Highly informative and useful, based on hard data, just like Nathan's. Thanks for sharing. Much obliged.

Robert,

No offense please,….I've had a bad experience with the 7 RMag with a quality bullet at a very reasonable range, hit solidly in the right place. We did recover the animal after a long hour. I've no doubt whatsover that many love this calibre, and for very good reasons,…..I'm just not a fan. I do appreciate your response Robert.

After a few days, a good many hours and a couple of long conversations with trusted friends who are long on knowledge and experience in the hunting fields, for now, I've decided to hold off on purchasing the Weatherby. From what Mike and Nathan have suggested, I'm going to take my .270 Win and further explore its potential.

I greatly appreciate the feedback and look forward to visiting here often.

Thanks again.
19 Sep 2014
@ 10:03 pm (GMT)

robert meikle

Re: Is more better?
well bud better the devil you know 270 is a good round. and if I was not granted the 7mm. then I would be shooting a 270. never had a runner with the 7mag bang thud down I use 120g vmax for fox and roe deer the 162a max for reds and for target work. all the best robert
19 Sep 2014
@ 10:37 pm (GMT)

sllindsay

Re: Is more better?
I am just catching up on this thread. In reply to the question about copper fouling with TSX and TTSX bullets, I have been shooting them a lot in my 308 (130gr at 3000fps) for about a year and a half. I don't find they build up copper and worse than lead-core bullets in the same rifle. I have several rifles that are terrible with regular ammunition, so I know what bad fouling is like, but I have not had a problem with their use in the 308.
sl
20 Sep 2014
@ 02:28 pm (GMT)

Daniel Schindler

Re: Is more better?
Robert,…..
Blessed to have choices. As I look at it, every selection we make will have tradeoffs. Up to us to decide which tradeoffs we want to make, or don't want to make. After I (unhappily) sold my 7 RMag, I had to decide which way to go, up or down in calibre. The .30's didn't do anything for me until we get to the 180-200 gr and we're back to tradeoffs. The 277's seemed a better middle-bore calibre, for Me. Very happy so far.

sl,……….
Very good to know. More grist for the mill. Thanks.
20 Sep 2014
@ 05:10 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Is more better?
The original Barnes X was sometimes a very heavy fouler and it became a real problem for Barnes with complaints coming in from around the world. This is why they had to come up with a driving band type design. GS Custom went further by making their bullets undersized with very small driving bands. This type of design has since been copied by others. Both types of driving band design help keep copper fouling down.

Guys, please be very careful about low velocity expansion. Uniform expansion at low velocities can have no bearing on killing performance at low velocities / extended ranges as I wrote in my second book. There is much more to this than basic bullet expansion. 2200fps is the safe cut off point for this bullet design taking other factors into account including wind drift. The book has much more detail.

20 Sep 2014
@ 07:57 pm (GMT)

Andy Stewart

Re: Is more better?
If you already have a rifle with sufficient hitting power, and you are comfortable and sorted using it, you are looking at change for the sake of change rather than need. The maximum range indicated as 450yds is easily within .270 capability, particularly with the right projectile. In my case, the 150 Berger VLD, and without a dial up scope: 3" high at 110 yds as first zero, and 7" high at 110yds off the bottom post (duplex) as second zero. That use of scope will get you out to your maximum range without guessing holdover, as long as you can accurately range it, and have a nose for the wind, you do not need the Wby mag (unless you really want to shoot much further)

Shooting off a rock in steep country on an awkward angle, I know which one I would be better off with to be utterly certain of no cock up on the shot, and at the end of the day: placement and bullet construction are way more important than an extra 100 foot seconds of velocity
20 Sep 2014
@ 09:37 pm (GMT)

Daniel Schindler

Re: Is more better?
Nathan,
Absolutely will do.

Andy,
I couldn't agree more. From my first post I wanted to explore this with some common sense. I've continued to research it exploring both the .24 and 30 calibers. At this point, I'm much more comfortable now with not replacing my .270 Win and considering a "want not need" purchase. While the 25-06 and the .270 do overlap, I'm looking at rifles in that caliber. Primarily, giving up some differences in performance but gaining somewhat less recoil. Tradeoffs, without compromising the end goal performance and recoil level.

Have a good day Gentlemen. Thanks.
21 Sep 2014
@ 01:50 am (GMT)

John Smith

Re: Is more better?
As I crept into old age recoil or the fear of it
began to affect the accuracy of my shooting.
So I went to a 7x57 mm in a Ruger No. 1A.
For elk this coming season (beginning 25 Oct)
I have reloaded a 162 A-Max bullet with either
Imr 4350 or Imr 4064. The felt recoil from
either is acceptable with no change to the
stock recoil pad or other modifications. With
a well placed shot it has proven capable of
one-shot kills on Rocky Mountain elk in the
conifer woods of eastern Washington state.
21 Sep 2014
@ 08:37 am (GMT)

Daniel Schindler

Re: Is more better?
Quote:
As I crept into old age recoil or the fear of it
began to affect the accuracy of my shooting.
So I went to a 7x57 mm in a Ruger No. 1A.
For elk this coming season (beginning 25 Oct)
I have reloaded a 162 A-Max bullet with either
Imr 4350 or Imr 4064. The felt recoil from
either is acceptable with no change to the
stock recoil pad or other modifications. With
a well placed shot it has proven capable of
one-shot kills on Rocky Mountain elk in the
conifer woods of eastern Washington state.



Well said John. We share the same rifle, same calibre. For the very reasons you mention, I've kept this rifle over the years believing I would be coming back to it. No doubt an accurate prediction. A long time ago, mine was tuned by a competent 'smith, better than acceptable accuracy. Glad to see you are enjoying yours.
 

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