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impala bullets
@ 08:56 am (GMT) |
MIke RylandWho out there is using Impala bullets i have just got my first shipment and loaded up the 6.5x55 swed 96 action with the 90grn LWHV dropped my first 40kg pig with it the other night with a neck shot @ 60m loaded with 45grs of ADI 2208 doing about 3500ftps. amazed was my first opinion of the wound almost no meat lose i even dug the bullet out of the soil it was about 150mm in the ground with 100% retained weight they are brass after what i am seeing i will never use anything else |
Replies
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@ 12:44 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: impala bulletsHi Mike, yes, I have used the Impala solid projectiles on game, I was hoping to not have to talk about this projectile design.Be careful as you go forwards. Bullets kill by either tissue destruction which enables/results in blood loss or through direct damage to the CNS. Your shot was a CNS shot by the way you described the kill. With ordinary body shots (and quite often with neck shots), if the CNS is not hit, a solid, non expanding projectile will cause an immensely slow kill. This is why hunters tend to use expanding projectiles as opposed to military FMJ ammunition. No amount of bullet banding, meplat alterations velocity increases or clever marketing campaigns will overcome these short comings in the small bores. As you described, tissue destruction was very low, a FMJ .308 or 5.56 round would have achieved the same. Results will become worse as range is increased. One thing I want readers to understand is that they should never put minimal meat damage before humane killing. Too many times I hear of hunters wanting the smallest possible wound for maximum meat retrieval. Just remember this, before the kill, its not just about what you want, remember to stay focused on humane game killing. After the job is done, retrieve your meat and be grateful for what you are able to retrieve. At close ranges, shot placement can be used to secure more meat (by taking neck shots etc) but as ranges are extended, the shoulder / chest cavity is the most humane POI combined with expanding type projectiles. Sorry to go on Mike. Keep going with the Impala with a mind to observe speed of killing during successive hunts. If it begins to show slow killing due to changes in your POI (due to changes in range etc), change to another bullet design. Pigs have a high level of emotion and emotional intelligence, any undue suffering should be avoided at all costs. |
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@ 04:24 pm (GMT) |
MIke RylandRe: impala bulletsHi Nathan thanks for your feed back. as you correctly put it animal wellfare and a quick kill is a must.the idea is not to have animals running around with their guts hanging out only to die later. i was referred to impala via don heath at Norma. can you remind me of the technical term for the way their bullets kill i know it's a hydraulic action causing a massive shock though the animal that is meant to disrupt heart and lung function, shot placement is vital. This all came about due to me seeking advise about building a fast 6.5mm case i was looking at necking down the .308 norma magnum to 6.5mm to discover there is only 1mm difference in case lengh to the 264 win mag which is the road i am heading down over the next 12 months rebarrelling a P14 that was gifted to me. which how i ended up with impala bullets in my loaned 6.5x55. how do impala compare to barnes in your opinion my dad has loaded tsx in his 6.5-06 but yet to make a kill so i cant compare just yet. i must add that the pig i shot was DOA it only just clipped the vertebrae and left about a 20mm welt at the exit wound. i was worried about using them at first then i saw that wound and how quick the pig died then you you gave me doubt about there performance. i will document as much as i can for you and other users. and get some pics if you like. it is great to have someone like you in nz to give us advise as you know the limitions of our rifles and our hunted game. thanks Mike |
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@ 06:15 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: impala bulletsI have discussed both hydraulic shock and hydrostatic shock extensively in the game killing section of the Knowledge base. Please read this section as it will give you a better insight as to why for example, I describe the 120 grain Barnes TSX as working well above a certain velocity parameter. Over time, all of this information will sink in, once you have been out hunting, then returned home and looked back over notes on the knowledge base. My notes on the Barnes bullets are in the KB, far easier than me going back over notes here. All solid pointed bullets perform the same so there is no comparison between these and the expanding TSX. Unless the solid hits the CNS or hits major bone causing secondary fragmentation (the bone fragments become the method of wounding), performance is best described as abysmal. |
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@ 06:41 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: impala bulletsOne last note, if you want to increase killing power at long ranges, avoid choosing a light bullet at hyper velocities as this only works on paper. In the field, a long for caliber fast expanding / frangible projectile produces the widest possible wounds and fastest kills at long ranges.Trajectory is the least important aspect of long range shooting / hunting. A super flat trajectory is only useful with cartridges used inside 400 yards amongst hunters who's goal is to not have to range game or make calculations, making little to no calculations with typical ridge to ridge shots inside 300 yards. It is an irony I know, one would think that the longer the shot, the flatter the trajectory needs to be. But in truth, for truly long range shots, adjustable optics, high BC projectiles, a high level of accuracy, drop charts, calculations, range finders etc are key factors. |
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@ 09:06 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: impala bulletsHi Mike, I have edited my reply. Sorry, I have been quite ill of late. My bad.Arthur Cleland is a true gentleman, very patient and kind. Arthur knows the P14 actions inside and out, he will do a great job. |
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@ 12:24 pm (GMT) |
MIke RylandRe: impala bulletsthanks Nathani really appreciate you input into this matter. what bullet would you personlly choose for the long shots on red deer. as that would be the largest animal i would try for at let say 500m. this would be in the .264 win mag. thanks Mike |
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@ 10:14 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: impala bulletsOk, this is where things can sometimes get a bit tricky. Its a lot easier to arrive at one load for red deer at all ranges in the .30 cals. In essence, a heavy frangible bullet can be made to work well at both close and long ranges, on light through to large bodied game.As bore size is reduced and bullet weights reduced, a series of limiting factors comes into play. The single virtue of the .264 Win Mag is low recoil for comparatively excellent external ballistics. That is its strength, not extreme killing power or any other factor- simply low recoil. This low recoil can in turn be used to optimise accuracy, the accuracy in turn used to obtain fast killing through exact shot placement- providing we have a handle on wind drift. Its not a case of load and go for it. As suggested, strengths and limitations have to be taken into consideration. This is how it was when the 6.5x55 was invented, its the same with the magnum. Excellence through accuracy. The three most effective bullets for use in the .264 Win mag are the 140gr Partition, the 140 grain SST and the 140 grain A-Max. If you cannot obtain the results you desire with one of these three projectiles, its time to move into a new caliber. Its as simple as that. Three projectile designs, three varying rates of expansion, weight loss and or fragmentation. The Partition in 6.5 is extremely violent and relatively deep penetrating on deer. It expands fully, down to velocities of 1800fps or from 3100fps, 750 yards. The only caveat, and this applies to the 6.5 bore in general but not the 7mm and .30 calibres, is that at 750 yards, the energy is becoming low (1000ftlb) and if the animal is lean (a rear lung shot on a winter hind), there is a slight risk that the internal wound will be around .5 to .75" in diamater and may result in a heavily delayed kill. In this regard, if the wind is at play and you cannot guarantee the POI, the shot may have to be passed up. The 6.5's do tend to lose the ability to create wide wounds as velocity drops below 2400fps. The key is to be able to drive projectiles into shoulder muscles and bones. For shooters who have a good handle on wind drift, this is a good all range bullet for red deer. Some people find the Partition too pricey so this needs to be taken into consideration. The SST is more violent again. This bullet will actually get you out to around 1170 yards regarding wide wounding and fast clean killing. Occasionally, in bush hunting situations, the 140 grain SST can meet too much resistance on heavy muscle, failing to initiate hydrostaic shock, resulting in game running 50-100 yards before expiring. Internal wounding will be thorough but the lack of a large exit wound may make tracking difficult. This only happens occasionally and only on heavy body weights. The problem can be alleviated by utilizing neck shots inside 100 yards. You will have to experiment with this to find out whether such a reaction will occur on local body weights. Chances are, the SST will fulfill all of your needs, serving you well at both close and long ranges. All I want to do here, is describe what can happen and why it can happen. Otherwise, what tends to happen is that the shooter makes his close range shot, the animal runs off and is never recovered, the shooter decides that the projectile suffered bullet blow up and never destroyed the vitals. What needs to be understood is that the 140 grain SST will destroy the vitals. The A-Max does its best work in the 6.5's as velocities fall below 2600fps. On heavy body weights at close ranges, neck shots give the best results, again due to body weight resistance being too high for hydrostatic shock to occur. In your .264, the 140 grain A-Max will come into its own at 300 yards, maintaining a central cluster of fragments capable of rendering wide and adequately deep penetration. At close ranges, the A-Max may come across as a bit ho hum, leaving you to wonder what all the fuss is about and on top of this, it may seem to go against the grain that it will be more spectacular at low velocities than high velocities. But as you try the A-Max at ever increasing ranges, you will see its strengths in a vivid manner. You could push this projectile out to 1300 yards (impact velocity 1480fps combined with retained energy of 1020ftlb) with great effect but it will all depend on how well you can read the wind. I find that for most guys, its a lot easier to read wind and connect at 1800fps (980 yards), requiring exponentially increased skill (time in the field) thereafter. When using the A-max at long ranges, be sure to study wounding as you are doing now (and yes, any and all photos would be great thanks including the Impala). If you find that you reach a situation at long ranges where the body weights are simply too large for the cluster of A-Max fragments to be effective, move to the SST. Now as to your original question, my personal preference has been to run both the Partition and A-Max side by side, only because I have been lucky enough to get my rifles to shoot both bullets to the same POI. I really do like the Partition at ordinary hunting ranges as well as at medium long ranges, its a fast killer, as long as you do your part, it never fails to please. Wounding is worlds apart from traditional soft points. But as the evening comes on and I find myself on the tops boiling the billy, the magazine load of Partitions is dumped and replaced with the A-Max, giving great authority at truly long ranges. Its a cheap enough set up too. I can use the A-Max at close ranges on lesser game, the Partitions are only reserved for big, tough animals, a box of partitions can be made to last a year easily. If you can spare the cash to try this set up and can be bothered with dual loading, I think you would really like it. To this end, try not to be too focused on finding one do it all load. If you really want a do it all load, re-chamber your P14 (.303) in .308 Norma magnum and load either the 178 or 208gr A-Max and be done with it. A little flexibilty now and a willingness to accept limitations will allow you to exploit the strengths of your chosen cartridge. You may very well find one all around bullet that suits your local game weights and conditions. If this happens, that is great news. If it doesn't happen, not to worry, there are options to be exploited and enjoyed. |
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@ 09:11 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: impala bulletsMore information...I have to admit, it is hard to put the performance of each 6.5 cal projectile into short summeries, there are a lot of caveats. For the purposes of the knowledge base, I erred on the side of caution. One factor I always have to take into consideration is that the KB is utilized by readers all over the world. In this regard, readers local game weights vary a great deal. For example, in the last few weeks, I have had readers wanting specific info on appropriate loads for Roe Deer in the U.K, Blacktail in the U.S, Pronghorn, Scottish Red deer and NZ Red deer. Delving deeper into the performance of the 6.5 140 grain SST at ranges beyond 100 yards, the more body weight resistance the SST meets, the better it performs but only up to a point. In the knowledge base, I described how the SST can produce the occasional delayed kill at long ranges due to limitations in bore diameter. This can be seen at long ranges on lean/light game( also yearlings) with rear lung shots. But in areas where feed conditions are good and body weights are up around 80-120kg at longer ranges, the 140 grain SST is able to render a very wide wound with rear lung shots, alleviating the necessity for exacting shot placement (center shoulder). For many readers, the above is simply too confusing, too many ifs and buts. But for true enthusiasts of the 6.5 caliber, the above may be a useful inclusion into the knowledge base? The 140 grain A-Max can struggle to give deep wounding on large bodied game and in the Knowledge base, I set a weight limit of 80kg, trying to take not just game weights into consideration but also variations in species anatomy (there is a great difference between an 80kg buck deer and an 80kg boar or Black bear). Yet, as velocity continually falls and especially below 2200fps, the 140 grain A-Max is able to tackle larger, tougher body weights. The A-Max readily expands and fragments down to 1400fps but at 1400fps, energy is becoming low and performance varies a great deal with changes in body weights. Again, lots of ifs buts and maybes. What one hunter experiences will differ from the results of another hunter (using the same POI) due to two vital factors, range (impact velocity) and body weights / resistance encountered. For my own part, I have been continually monitoring the 6.5's in the field this last year, watching clients take long shots, studying wounding. Of the trio of projectiles I initially mentioned, you will find what you are looking for. When using the A-Max on Red deer, as suggested, you may find that you are able to obtain fast killing out as far as 1300 yards, perhaps a little further. The key is to push ranges out just a little further each time. When long range shooting, 600 yards is a good initial goal (for both the .264 mag and 6.5x55), followed by shots between 700 and 800 yards and so forth. The Partition/A-Max combo is a good one but another option for hunters on a strictly limited budget is to use the Remington CoreLokt for close in work. The SST can be tested in the same manner, pushing ranges out further, observing killing at each step. Although I have described the occasional slow kill in the KB, you have to understand that internal wounding is always complete and my notes and comments take wind drift errors (rear lung and liver shots) into account. It takes a great deal of time to understand the strengths and limitations of the 6.5 bore. The trouble is, although it can be easier to just grab a .30-06 and work up one load for all ranges and a wide range of body weights, I have seen the strengths of the 6.5's pay dividends, the low recoil inertia allowing for great accuracy. Its not something to be passed off lightly. |
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