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Forum Index > Rifles general discussion > Nathan which factory Load 30-06 for these conditions ?

Nathan which factory Load 30-06 for these conditions ?

28 Jun 2014
@ 04:19 pm (GMT)

Craig Henard

I recently got a FN 30-06 (Crown over B over ABL)rifle and wanting to use it on deer. 23.5 inch military stepped barrel.
Conditions will be 25 yards to 350 yards or so.
Size of our deer about 125-200 plus.
I am wanting a 150 grain load.
I was interested in the Hornady SST but apparently Hornady has discontinued the production of the 150 grain load except for the Superformance load which is still available.
Anyway the loads I can find are easily are
Hornady Superformance 150 grain SST
Hornady "whitetail"150 Grain interlock
Federal Blue box 150 grain (dont know what bullet it uses)
Federal Premium with 150 grain Sierra
Winchester Supreme 150 grain Ballistic tip
Remington 150 grain Corelok
150gr Prvi

Nathan with the rifle and conditions I described which one of these factory loads would you pick ?

Thanks
Craig

Replies

28 Jun 2014
@ 05:14 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Nathan which factory Load 30-06 for these conditions ?
Hi Craig, the 150gr SST Superformance would be my pick for fast killing, especially out at 350 yards or more.

If you can, try to pick up a box of this, plus a box of American Whitetail Interlock and see which shoots best. If nether are very good, try the Winchester 150gr BST or Federal Premium 150gr Sierra. These can also produce excellent accuracy. Both are fully frangible bullets under normal hunting conditions / situations so please use the knowledge base to double check game body weight suitability to ensure optimum performance and to set realistic expectations.

The ammo you mention and that which I have included above, varies quite a bit in actual muzzle velocities. You can use this to your advantage as each will produce different harmonics, especially helpful if the rifle is not bedded. There will be quite a difference between the Superformance load and Whitetail load regarding both velocity and bullet design.

If none of the above shoot well, try to obtain the Hornady Garand Match load with the 178gr A-Max.
28 Jun 2014
@ 05:22 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Nathan which factory Load 30-06 for these conditions ?
As for your question regarding Prvi. The velocity of this ammo tends to be very low. Sometimes this can be very helpful, resulting in high accuracy along with very mild recoil and also reasonably good penetration. However, as ranges are pushed out, this ammo can produce slow kills. Furthermore, wind drift can be quite severe and combined with a low BC, it can result in unexpected misses or gut shots.

Of late I have been finding some Prvi loads are filled with 50bmg powder. The equivalent burn rate being that of H1000 through to Retumbo. Not exactly ideal for velocity generation in standard chamberings.
28 Jun 2014
@ 05:54 pm (GMT)

Craig Henard

Re: Nathan which factory Load 30-06 for these conditions ?
Hi Nathan
The rifle has been full length bedded out to the forend tip with fiberglass by the previous owner.
Just got it and haven,t shot it with anything yet.
I was hoping I could use just one load for 25 yards to 350 yards.
I hunt mostly at the edge of the woods out of a stand where behind me and to the left I may have a shot in the woods to maybe 50 yards max and in front of me is a Large agricultural field where shots up to a thousand yards are available but I would limit myself to 350 yards or so.
I have been hunting the same area (on our family farm )for 45 years so know where 350 yards is at !! LOL
Very seldom do I hunt strictly in the woods .
BUT I have had shots present themselves at as little as 25 yards on occasion.

IF you were hunting in the same circumstances am I right in assuming by what you have written that as long as it shoots well you would choose the 150 Grain Superformance load ?
Or are you basically saying that any of them will work as far as terminal performance goes and just to find the load that shoots most accurately from my rifle?

Thanks again
Craig
28 Jun 2014
@ 06:59 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Nathan which factory Load 30-06 for these conditions ?

My favorite of those that you have listed regarding terminal performance is the 150gr SST Superformance. It is also the fastest load which makes it useful at extended ranges.

However accuracy is a major factor. You will need to see what the rifle likes. The other loads I picked should give you pleasing results (terminal) in lieu of the Hornady SF load.

If the rifle does not shoot at all well (say 3"), you may need to free float the barrel, leaving 1 to 1.5" of the barrel bedded closest to the chamber. Just see how you get on, one step at a time.
28 Jun 2014
@ 07:10 pm (GMT)

Craig Henard

Re: Nathan which factory Load 30-06 for these conditions ?
Thanks Nathan
I forgot to mention that it has been Sporterized and drilled and tapped for scope use.With a nice sporter stock .
I will be using either a an older Leupold 6x on it or an older Leupold Vari x11 3-9 scope with either Weaver rings and bases or Weaver bases and Burris Signature Zee rings.
I will shoot several 3 shot groups at a Hundred yards.
I am looking for groups of 1.5 inches or better,if it wont then the work begins !

Thanks
Craig
28 Jun 2014
@ 07:30 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Nathan which factory Load 30-06 for these conditions ?
Hi, yes I have tested the SF ammo in .30-06. I think the "no increase in recoil" is a bit of a push. Sure, the velocity is generated over a longer period of time due to the slower burn rate but ask anyone if they notice a difference in recoil when wsitching between two powders where velocity is equal and I don't think you will find many folk state that one has less felt recoil than the other.
28 Jun 2014
@ 08:14 pm (GMT)

Craig Henard

Re: Nathan which factory Load 30-06 for these conditions ?
Nathan,
I am 54 and been my experience that you dont get anything for free !
I figured as much but Just thought I would ask.
I am not looking for anymore recoil than a standard 30-06 Factory loaded
so I can scratch the Superformance load.

I have been doing some cross referencing on other ammo sites and it
Appears the Ballistic Silvertip is going to have less drop,higher remaining velocity ,less winddrift because of the higher BC.

I think I will start with the Either the Winchester Supreme 150 Gr Ballistic Silvertip or the Federal Ballistic tip(whichever I can find easiest).as they are essentially the same right?
See if it meets my accuracy expectations ,if not try a box of something else.

Nathan I also went to the Prvi website and their numbers dont show in Feet per second,but meters per second ?If it is in meters per second I did the conversion and came up with 2900 fps at the muzzle and 2047 at 300 !
Sounds pretty fast to me but they may be exagerating !!

Craig
29 Jun 2014
@ 01:34 am (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Nathan which factory Load 30-06 for these conditions ?

You may find that you can handle the recoil of the SF load just fine so don't discount it. Most of this is a head game, the load may recoil more but few would notice the difference. Just try to keep this as an option.

The purpose of recommending the Whitetail load was that it is quite a different bullet and if the SST did not shoot well, the different style of the Interlock may show an improvement in accuracy. The traditional Interlock can be very good in this sense.

The Ballistic tip loads will prove OK on the size game you mention so have at it. Yes, a good BC and reduced wind drift etc. Perhaps I should have refrained from giving advice as you seem to be following your own path regardless. Realistically, all of my notes can be found in the Knowledge base anyway.
29 Jun 2014
@ 01:51 am (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Nathan which factory Load 30-06 for these conditions ?
Prvi loads can be 200, sometimes up to 300fps short of advertised specs.
29 Jun 2014
@ 02:22 am (GMT)

Craig Henard

Re: Nathan which factory Load 30-06 for these conditions ?
Quote:

You may find that you can handle the recoil of the SF load just fine so don't discount it. Most of this is a head game, the load may recoil more but few would notice the difference. Just try to keep this as an option.

Nathan ,I will keep this as an option.Thanks

The purpose of recommending the Whitetail load was that it is quite a different bullet and if the SST did not shoot well, the different style of the Interlock may show an improvement in accuracy. The traditional Interlock can be very good in this sense. I understand now ,Thanks

The Ballistic tip loads will prove OK on the size game you mention so have at it. Yes, a good BC and reduced wind drift etc. Perhaps I should have refrained from giving advice as you seem to be following your own path regardless. Realistically, all of my notes can be found in the Knowledge base anyway.

Nathan ,I had read the Knowledge base Before I asked you the question.
I was a little confused so I asked and gave my hunting conditions thinking perhaps by giving those conditions it would be easier to help me pin down what would be the best for me.

Nathan, it appears from your statements that you regret having given me advice . Just because I continue to try to gain as much knowledge as possible ?

Perhaps(apparently) I should not have asked.






















29 Jun 2014
@ 03:11 am (GMT)

jason

Re: Nathan which factory Load 30-06 for these conditions ?
hey mate, try the superformance rounds and see how they group, for the ranges you want they will be ideal! the superformance is a great round. and the sst will suit. I wouldn't be worried about any extra recoil, you have a lot of experience by the sounds of it, and a good technique will make any increase in recoil a mute point. and it wont be much anyway, you will be fine.

don't over think it, try the best choice first, then move down the list if your not happy with how the grouping is.

good luck, and be sure to share your hunting pictures with us.
29 Jun 2014
@ 04:20 am (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Nathan which factory Load 30-06 for these conditions ?
Sorry Craig, I had the impression that my advice was not helping.

I have also neglected to explain my reasoning for the Whitetail load in more detail. While the SST (and Ballistic Tip) bullets may be good game bullets, your bore will have a 10 twist and furthermore, it may have some wear, whether via usage or unseen corrosion. The flat base and soft nature of the Interlock will swage to your bore and obtain stability in lieu of potentially negative factors.

If someone asks me for advice, I take it very seriously, I do not frivolously throw words about. There was a set method to the advice I gave you, incorporating three different loads, the SST first (testing high velocity sweet spots), the Whitetail (testing a flat based soft bullet at a more mild velocity yet with a bullet design adequate for killing at 350 yards), the BST as a third option, its velocity between the other two loads but of a boat tailed design along with the GameKing which is quite a good game bullet at the same ranges. I wanted to take both terminal performance and also your individual rifle into account.

Perhaps that helps more.
29 Jun 2014
@ 04:12 pm (GMT)

Craig Henard

Re: Nathan which factory Load 30-06 for these conditions ?
Quote:
hey mate, try the superformance rounds and see how they group, for the ranges you want they will be ideal! the superformance is a great round. and the sst will suit. I wouldn't be worried about any extra recoil, you have a lot of experience by the sounds of it, and a good technique will make any increase in recoil a mute point. and it wont be much anyway, you will be fine.

don't over think it, try the best choice first, then move down the list if your not happy with how the grouping is.

good luck, and be sure to share your hunting pictures with us.


Thanks Jason
Craig
29 Jun 2014
@ 04:34 pm (GMT)

Craig Henard

Re: Nathan which factory Load 30-06 for these conditions ?
Quote:
Sorry Craig, I had the impression that my advice was not helping.

Nathan,of course your advice is helping me.
I know that you are a hands on guy and you do what others talk about.
Thats why I asked you.
You just threw me with the statement "perhaps you shouldn,t have offered advice".Over done with, regardless.
I value your advice more than anyone else I can think of.


I have also neglected to explain my reasoning for the Whitetail load in more detail. While the SST (and Ballistic Tip) bullets may be good game bullets, your bore will have a 10 twist and furthermore, it may have some wear, whether via usage or unseen corrosion. The flat base and soft nature of the Interlock will swage to your bore and obtain stability in lieu of potentially negative factors.

Nathan ,now I am starting to understand more about what you are talking about.
Thanks for explaining this to me.

If someone asks me for advice, I take it very seriously, I do not frivolously throw words about. There was a set method to the advice I gave you, incorporating three different loads, the SST first (testing high velocity sweet spots), the Whitetail (testing a flat based soft bullet at a more mild velocity yet with a bullet design adequate for killing at 350 yards), the BST as a third option, its velocity between the other two loads but of a boat tailed design along with the GameKing which is quite a good game bullet at the same ranges. I wanted to take both terminal performance and also your individual rifle into account.


Still more that you are explaining to me that I really appreciate.
I always need to know the whys and the hows of things.
I dont know if that is a bad thing or a good thing but it is what it is.
Nathan your credibility is beyond reproach and I certainly DO very much appreciate your advise.
Thank you for taking the time to explain all of this to me in a manner in which I can understand.
And yes it certainly does help more.

Regards
Craig

Perhaps that helps more.
30 Jun 2014
@ 01:18 am (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Nathan which factory Load 30-06 for these conditions ?
Hi Craig, thats good, I am glad the info has been useful. The test phase will soon tell us a bit more about the needs of the rifle. We may yet have to revisit this. Time will tell, one step at a time.
30 Jun 2014
@ 05:28 am (GMT)

Mike Davis

Re: Nathan which factory Load 30-06 for these conditions ?
I wouldnt automatically throw out a heavier load either. My good mate was after a light recoiling rifle and we couldnt find him a .243 in his price range but found a very tidy old BSA .30/06, we took it out to try and guy in shop sold us a packet of winchester 180 grn bullets...I still cant work that thinking out???.....here goes thinks I we fired a few rounds.less felt recoil than my .270 and very good accuracy, we both shot wallabies at 250ish yards with it and were impressed to say the least. mate still has the rifle today, mostly uses 150grn loads but as said the 180s didnt boot/recoil very much and works fine in that rifle.
just food for thought.
11 Aug 2014
@ 02:00 pm (GMT)

G.Scott Morris

Re: Nathan which factory Load 30-06 for these conditions ?
Nathan,

I've seen in this thread and other places that you have referenced the Hornady M1 Garand AMax load as 178gr. Unless Hornady is selling a different product down under, the bullet in the Garand Match load is the 168gr. That load was developed in conjunction with the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) that sells the surplus M1 Garands in the US. I've used this load extensively in Garand competition and it is much better than the surplus Lake City or Greek HXP loads. Hornady offers the .308 178 gr AMax bullet but I haven't seen it on their website in any loaded ammo.

Just bought your rifle and ammo books, don't foresee much sleep the next few days.

Scott
11 Aug 2014
@ 03:37 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Nathan which factory Load 30-06 for these conditions ?
How strange, you are dead right. I have buddied U.S clients privately by email, set them up with this load after the rifle was done and monitored their progress. The clients have been very happy and no mention of a weight discrepency. Perhaps too polite to tell me I had the weight wrong! Heck I was sure it was 178gr. I will go back and check their velocities again.

OK, will set about about getting to the bottom of this.

11 Aug 2014
@ 04:16 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Nathan which factory Load 30-06 for these conditions ?
OK, I think I can see where I have gone wrong. I have noted down velocities of 2670fps and similar. I must have put it down as being correct for 178gr and not back checked again. Definitely getting older!

Good luck with the books and projects Scott. Don't get into trouble with the better half....
11 Aug 2014
@ 05:13 pm (GMT)

G.Scott Morris

Re: Nathan which factory Load 30-06 for these conditions ?
Nathan,

I did find a 178 gr AMax in loaded ammo in .308 Win and .300 Win Mag, both from Black Hills Ammo, but no .30-06. Also, Creedmoor Sports, a small shop specializing in competition shooting, is now offering a new Garand load with a 167 gr Lapua Scenar bullet and using Lapua brass. Muzzle velocity is listed as 2720 fps. Initial reports are that accuracy is excellent in the Garand. Cost is very reasonable at $68 US per 50 rds. Lapua anything is all the rage in the states these days, but all I've shot is their .22lr, which is excellent. Have you done any testing on the scenar bullets?
11 Aug 2014
@ 05:35 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Nathan which factory Load 30-06 for these conditions ?
Hi Scott, I have done mixed testing and the results vary. I still need to collect info.

Examples:

139 gr Scenar, pin hole wounding but can be good, sometimes extremely violent with meplat opened up a bit more (see wound data base and book 2). It can offer a good balance of wide wounding but reasonable penetration.

155gr .308 Scenar, client found entire ogive hollow and then reported findings to me. Wounding severe on game, fast killing, but not the same occasional shallow penetration issues I have seen with other 155gr bullets or lack of shock that sometimes occurs- A-Max included. Seems to be a very good open country hunting bullet without any need of alteration.

I have tested a few others but not the 167gr bullet. I need to really need to put in some dedicated time into finding out more about the whole range, a more concerted focus, cut the projectiles open and see which have fully hollow ogives and which have lead up to within 160 thou (4mm) of the tip. Some also seem to have quite an open tip. The 155gr bullet really blind sided me. Such things are a constant reminder that I have to be careful to not over generalize and make sure each bullet is tested fully. But I tell you, it is difficult to avoid over generalizing. If others do not pull me up, I can fall into it as easily as the next man. So yes, still learning.



 

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