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> Best All round rig for my Budget ?
Best All round rig for my Budget ?
@ 05:10 am (GMT) |
JitIve sold both my Blasers and very fortunately have 5.5k or a little more to spend on a NZ rifle + scope.Id like to have 1 rifle to cover all my bases and do some long range work if needed. Ive spent my life shooting 308 and 30-06 so would be happy to step up a calibre to cover all the bases. Im looking for inspiration having come from Germany owning Blasers for the last dozen years I fancy a proper bolt action. I love the books. Id appreciate your input. |
Replies
@ 03:04 am (GMT) |
Les MulloyRe: Best All round rig for my Budget ?Hello there JitIt would be so good to have a problem like yours my Man ?? l.o.l. Here is how I would spend it ( a custom rifle of course) Action - (control round feed) I am a Mauser-holic - I love them ?? My favourite is the FN herstal made in Belgium - they are made in 30-06 length action not 57 mm- Magazine length is 85mm - Ample bullet seating alternatives ( you probably already know this ) Action - (push feed) Remington 700 - the best available no question. Barrel ( stainless ) Australian made TSE or MADDCO. They are both fanatical about stress relief in their barrels-- both button rifled. ( 26inch ) Calibre .280 rem or 30-06 Ackley Imp - Both these calibres are easy to shoot well and give good barrel life and accuracy -- compared to magnum calibres. Stock -- Synthetic Scope -- a dot reticle (illuminated) 4-12x44 or 50 |
@ 06:09 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Best All round rig for my Budget ?Hi Jit, I don't really know how to answer this because I have supplied all the info you need in both books. The final decision is yours and it is up to you to put the pieces together.Start by deciding on whether you want a two gun battery or one all around rifle. If you have a two gun battery, you may like to adopt a .308 and 7mm rem Mag as examples. If you want just one rifle, a .30-06 or 7mm Rem Mag may do the trick. Much will depend on how many shots you fire per year and how far you want to shoot. Again- use the book to help. In another thread, a poster said that the .270 has covered all of his needs for decades and I will take a guess that he has probably used his rifle out to 400 yards with the occasional shot as far as maybe 450 yards. Not everyone wants the reach of a magnum so you have to decide what suits you best. Start by deciding on which cartridge you wish to shoot, then decide on which action will suit this cartridge using the books. As you have learned, some gun makers try to cram a long cartridge into an action with an insufficient magazine. Les has taken this a step further by identifying his favorite action. So in this instance, he has matched a cartridge to an action he is fond of (and one you should have great pride in). We are allowed to indulge in personal tastes in this game! I will give you an example of a basic one rifle rig I set up for a client a short while ago. The client wanted to be able to reach out to distances of around 700 yards or so in the central North Island. He does not fire too many shots per year. The rifle needed to be medium weight, not too heavy. We settled on the very basic Rem SPS in 7mm Rem Mag. We changed the stock for an HS Precision. As for optics, we selected the Sightron 6-24x50 Mil dot which he also uses for bush hunting- and it works. This rifle has served the client very well, no complaints at all. I have several clients who use such rigs as all around rifles. It suits them, it may not suit you. As suggested, the books lay the foundation- the final choice is yours. I cannot make that decision for you. I notice that others have also avoided this thread which I believe is for the same reasons. The books should not be lacking in anyway, all the info is there. My editor / friend is German. He is currently running a 7x57 and 8x57. Both German themed cartridges. He spent many years hunting with U.S cartridges so this is relatively new to him. It adds a new level of historical interest. Again, personal choice, personal taste- balanced with practical application after identifying cartridge and rifle needs. One last thing, if going the semi custom route- please be very careful as to who you approach to have your work done. If you like like cowboys, go see a rodeo. Don't employ them to work on your rifle. The 7mm RM rifle I talked about... 
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@ 09:23 pm (GMT) |
GREGG FOSSERe: Best All round rig for my Budget ?Beautiful pic, fine looking gun! Since you are German, Jit, I will ask if you have taken a look at the new Mauser M12, and also what you think of the Blasers - why did you choose to sell'em? |
@ 03:02 am (GMT) |
Mike DavisRe: Best All round rig for my Budget ?5.5kF FFF FFF FF far out that is a lot of $ to have in your hunting budget if I sold everthing in my gun cabinet I wouldnt come close. chose wisely my good man and as Nathan so aptly put it look out for cowboys. I believe you need to work out your "needs to do" before you can work out what to do it with. How far is long range to you??? (optics) do you want to bash the scrub aswell or snipe from afar??(barrel length) What do you want to be shooting at???(energy levels) there are alot of great .30 cals out there that should fit the bill or are you looking to change from what you have known??? Do you want something different to everyone else???? good luck I will watch this thread with interest to see what you decide on. |
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@ 03:58 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Best All round rig for my Budget ?How are you getting on Jit? Do you need to bounce around some ideas? |
@ 11:49 pm (GMT) |
Bob MavinRe: Best All round rig for my Budget ?G’day allI’ll have a very good unfired 30 cal 28” stainless barrel for sale soon, taking it off a Rem 700. I bought an F class rifle from a deceased estate, one of many he had. The guy had it built but never got to fire it. Remington 700 action HS precision stock, jewel trigger and a 28” stainless barrel chambered for 30-06 #5 contour I think? My smith thinks it’s a high quality cut barrel but not sure what make it is yet till he has a better look at it. Any way it’s coming off to fit a 30-06, 24” light weight, #3 for me (old bloke) to carry around the bush. I’ll put it in the for sale area when its ready. Regards Bob |
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@ 08:26 pm (GMT) |
Les MulloyRe: Best All round rig for my Budget ?Are you out there Jit ????I hope you have not started spending your Rifle Budget on " cigarettes and whiskey and Wild, WILD Women " or something such as that. ( l.o.l.) If so -- Please advise all the interesting bits. !! cheers -Les |
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@ 04:31 am (GMT) |
Jit RathodRe: Best All round rig for my Budget ?Still around,I will be moving to Wellington this year from the UK and will eager to take up my passion of hunting and shooting in general. I wanted to do some ground work before I arrived to understand what might be suitable given the very different terrain and hunting culture. I've already found on my previous trips that kiwis are the most friendly people I've encountered so far with such a positive attitude to hunting and shooting in general it was one of the important factors influencing our decision to relocate. I have had 2-3 rifles in the past but always seemed to prefer one over the other and the others end up being little used, hence I'm after one very good rifle that can do everything. In terms of calibre I like the idea of 7rem Mag but not the barrel length needed to make it work and if I occasionally use a silencer the overall length will be a problem. I had never previously considered the 7mm08 or 270 but Nathan does say some very good things about them. I would prefer a custom action and a match barrel etc, but don't want to wait 6 months for a rifle build hence I was also asking about ready built customs or semi customs. I've tried the Mauser it's basically a bolt Blaser made in the same factory, nothing wrong with it and accurate. The German rifles down under are very expensive with a barrel costing as much as a whole rig! How about Hardy actions and rifles ? I've had a chat with Dan over there who recommend an alpine or scout custom in 300wsm or 7-08 ? |
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@ 06:10 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Best All round rig for my Budget ?Hi Jit, the new Hardy rifles have merit for a few reasons. They are based on an M700 footprint which means that parts and upgrades are interchangeable. Secondly, the rifles are locally made so if you have problems, you can seek help. Thirdly, the actions are built to finer tolerances than typical mass produced arms.But- I have not yet tested these actions. I only know of the action after Dan rang to tell me what he was doing. Until I test one for myself, you should treat my advice with the usual caution associated with "opinion" versus experience. The .300 WSM is Dan's personal cartridge choice. Providing he employs a Wyatt extended magazine box or long detachable box, any of the WSM's would be optimal so long as the stock is of a decent configuration and the over all weight not too light if you intend to use the rifle without the suppressor at any stage. So, if adopting a WSM, double check mag length. It needs to be 75mm or longer internally. The stock configurations I have seen so far look very good but I have not studied them internally. There is an ali chassis model offered as well as a straight carbon fiber jobby. If you adopt the carbon fiber stock, you must check to see if it is fiber over foam or a solid fill while being weary of quick offhand responses. If it is fiber over foam, it is a deal breaker. Try to avoid going too light in barrel contour for both suppressed and unsuppressed usage. I would opt for a 24" barrel if using a suppressor with a WSM. Some guys prefer a shorter barrel. You should end up with the suppressor sticking out about 3" forward of the muzzle and 5" rear of the muzzle. This would make the total barrel length 27" with suppressor. Up to you though. This will tame the recoil of the .300WSM if you wish to stay with .30 cal. You are already familiar with the performance of the .30-06 so this is not exactly new territory for you. In conclusion, check, then check again. There are one or two things I am not happy with. The scout rifle for example is painted to the extent that the bolt body is painted which is a typical newbie mistake. It is never a good idea to build a rifle to very tight tolerances, then paint the bolt. Thats the problem with the tactical trend, some folk take it too far. The detachable magazine looks like an Accurate-Mag so it should have some length to it- but check! You need to very very clear about what you want and need while Dan is still in the teething stage of rifle development. Its the same with any new business. But ultimately, as custom rifles go, there is definitely merit in pursuing this. |
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@ 07:38 pm (GMT) |
Jit RathodRe: Best All round rig for my Budget ?Great advice thank you,I'm still drawn to the Christiansen arms Classic carbon given your thoughts on the Hardy and the comparative newness of his rifle. It's also substantially lower priced even with the carbon barrel which I do like the idea of. It also appears to offer a 700 style but custom action decent trigger and a choice of all the calibres you anyone would need. With a muzzle brake and the glass stock as instead of the full carbon version recoil should be manageable in the smaller magnums or standard cartridges . I'll ask at Deadeye dicks on options and availability so I can make a comparison to the Hardy. Please keep the ideas coming. Cheers |
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@ 07:58 pm (GMT) |
GREGG FOSSERe: Best All round rig for my Budget ?Jit - as I may have mentioned, dielectric corrosion is a serious concern anytime carbon fiber and steel are in contact. I work with carbon fiber on a daily basis and must always keep this in mind when designing my instruments. Perhaps Christensen have addressed this issue but it is something to be aware of for long tern durability. Also a very light weight rifle may prove to be very unpleasant to shoot with anything more than a 7mm-08.If in fact you are considering the 300 wsm, Nathan's write up on this cartridge in the knowledge base is outstanding. If you are building a semi-custom rifle (as the Hardy seems to be), you may want to consider the custom throat/freebore that Nathan mentions, it will allow seating heavier bullets further out. This along with the long magazine suggested above will allow this cartridge to achieve more velocity at sahe pressures, with heavier bullets. Another thought for consideration is a single shot rifle. The Ruger No. 1 is a beautiful rifle and normally comes with a 26" barrel. Because of the negligible length of the action, a 26" No. 1 is about the same length as a 22" bolt gun. The longer barrel will maximize velocity while reducing recoil and muzzle blast without the demands and complications of a brake or suppressor. These are mentioned as well in Nathan's excellent write up on the 300 wsm. Among the fat short cartridges the 300 wsm may be the best of the lot and seems to have achieved more acceptance and more factory ammunition availability. Of course if you choose a single shot cartridge OAL becomes a non-issue, opening up the 280 Rem and the 7mm mag among others. No. 1's have had questions about accuracy but apparently if one is willing to do a little research online and spend some time or money fine tuning these issues can be overcome. However, this is an opinion not based on experience - but there seem to be a fair number of No. 1's capable of 1/2 MOA. Good luck and enjoy your search for your new rifle. |
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@ 10:26 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Best All round rig for my Budget ?Please do not pursue the carbon fiber barrel rifle. This design is beyond my comprehension. The barrel is made ultra light- which increases recoil, which has to be tamed with the addition of a brake- which increases noise. I have heard poor accuracy reports regarding these rifles. Whether it is the shooter or rifle design matters little if you think about the above. In a world when we are becoming less and less fit, the ultra light rifles simply give us more excuses to ask less of ourselves.If there are any teething problems with the Hardy rifle design, I do not see any problems because the manufacturer will be about an hour or so drive from where you will be living. My concerns were simply the same as I would show with any custom build. OK, going to throw around a couple of ideas for you. It sounds like you don't want to rework a basic M700 for a custom build so here is what I am thinking. If you want something a bit special, try the Hardy. If you are really unsure, we have Borden Rimrock actions in NZ- very nice. If you want to spend a bit less and have something a bit special, have a look at either a Winchester M70 Extreme or a Montana. Both are available in NZ. If you are going to predominantly hunt the North island, a 7mm will be fine. If you are going to focus on the south, a .300 would be optimal. If you want one gun, but want to shoot a lot, adopt a mid powered (06) cartridge. If you plan on occasional shooting, employ a magnum. If you wish to get right into long range, use my book. From your wellington base, most of your long range work in the Ruahines or Rimutaka will be about 600-700 yards. if you shoot further, you will have trouble retrieving meat in a safe manner. Fitness will be key, you will need to be fit irrelevant of rifle weight. As you go further North, the animals get smaller and the ranges can get longer. That said, where ever you hunt in the north, 25 yard shots will be common. That is about as succinct as I can put things. One of my clients/friends has just reported that his new M70 Extreme is shooting about .2 out of the box (.308). He has been a competitive shooter all of his life and knows how hard it is to get this sort of accuracy from a high end custom rig, let alone a factory rifle. So keep this in mind as an option. I buddied another client through basic accurizing with his Extreme rifle after he posted on this forum a while back- nothing too serious in the way of work to be done, his .270 is shooting 150gr Partitions in the mid 2900fps range and is a right hammer. last I heard he neck shot a deer at just over 300 yards, nearly took its head off. I am still waiting for some good autopsy photos from him but the rifle is accurate enough to take neck shots out to extended ranges so he is making the most of meat retrieval until such time as he has to take a snap shot or shoot longer. As for muzzle brakes and suppressors- all depends on the power of the rifle and recoil. Don't get too carried away down this path unless there is a direct need. In many cases, the need is about the same as a fish needing a bicycle. |
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@ 11:09 pm (GMT) |
GREGG FOSSERe: Best All round rig for my Budget ?: ) : ) : ) LOL....The Win Extreme looks like a fab rifle, the accuracy mentioned is sensational, due I assume to the free floated bbl and the aluminum bedding block. I am going to raise this issue again - dielectric corrosion. If steel is in direct contact with aluminum there will be dielectric corrosion. Period. Once again I do not know if Winchester has taken any precautions against this but if not the owner could take the aluminum bedding block to a metal treatment shop and have it anodized which should help a great deal and also is a very hard surface. The cost to do this should be minimal if they batch your piece with other work. These days they are making quarter-million dollar sports cars (Ferrari, Lambo) where they appear (from videos I have seen of the construction process) to be bolting aluminum and steel components directly to carbon fiber. If they have not taken extreme measures to avoid dielectric corrosion they are going to have some very disappointed owners a few years down the road. The same goes for the latest trend to utilize aluminum bedding blocks for steel actions, if the manufacturers have not taken the needed precautions there will be issues. Sorry to go off topic but I hope this information can be useful here. |
@ 12:10 am (GMT) |
Martin TaylorRe: Best All round rig for my Budget ?Hi Jit,you have all the info you need in Nathans books and listed above, so now it comes down to personal choice! Heres another Idea! 1st Pick your calibre to suit the ranges and game as already said, most likely a .30 to cover all NZ game. 2nd You have access to most if not all Factory rifle offerings in the UK so find a rig that fits & suits your tastes with the info to guide you. Unless you are hell bent on going with full custom. 3rd Get Dan to send it to Nathan & Steph, have it accurised (possible stock change to suit you) and you hit the ground running with a known, proven rifle! No waiting for a full custom to get built, wondering if you really like it and it works! Cheers Marty |
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@ 04:04 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Best All round rig for my Budget ?Hi Gregg, sorry to be both rude and to push a sale, but I sometimes feel it would be useful if you read my first book. I have covered the issue of ali/stainless reactions and cover it yet again in the next book. I have seen it first hand at its worst. I also cover subjects such as the Blaser rifle- which is in part perhaps why Jit has given very little in the way of an answer to you.I know you can't afford it right now but one day if you can, I think you would find the book useful as you seem extremely enthusiast to learn. |
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@ 05:35 am (GMT) |
Jit RathodRe: Best All round rig for my Budget ?So if I were to look at a true NewZealand crafted rifle, I perhaps should go down the Barnard, true flight route, with a Macmillan stock jewel trigger and some decent glass.I could then choose the calibre, Barrel contour and finish. Out of interest who imports the borden rifles or actions? |
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@ 03:42 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Best All round rig for my Budget ?Hi Jit, Barnard never really got into sporting actions. I do not think they make a long action standard weight repeater as yet. I believe this is what opened the way for Dan hardy. You may however wish to double check. If you are wanting a short action and extended mag box for a WSM, Barnard may be able to help.True-Flite would be able to source a Borden Rimrock M700 footprint action. Stiller and Surgeon are also available in NZ- both equally good. You would end up with something pretty straight forwards as per the picture I posted further up. |
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@ 03:59 pm (GMT) |
Jit RathodRe: Best All round rig for my Budget ?Cheers, how about a Barnard 07 tube rifle for hunting, in say 7-08 ?I can't say I'm keen on the tactical style but the quality looks very good. Otherwise your suggestion of a custom action , quality barrel and stock as long as I can put that all together with a scope for my budget I'm onto a winner. I've also come across DF Maisey who say they be able to build a gun. |
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@ 05:23 pm (GMT) |
Bob MavinRe: Best All round rig for my Budget ?Hi JitI've hunted most game in Australia for more years than I care to mention. Like most riflemen I've agonised over the ideal hunting rifle/calibre, I'm very fortunate to have a mate that's one of Australia's best gunsmiths. I've reduced my rifles down to 6mm rem, 30-06 & 358 Winchester. SAko L579 & Rem 700 actions, McMillan stocks, built by Fred I sold my 30-06 Sako 85. Fred built another 30-06 on an older blued Rem 700 action , 24" #4 stainless Maddco barrel, jewel trigger & HS stock. Can't fault that setup! A friend went down the same path as you, Fred has too much work on to build one for him. After a lot of consideration he bought a Winchester extreme in 30-06 ( my favourite calibre for all round hunting in Oz, or 280 AI) We did the bedding work on the stock and he's happy. The tube rifle you mention is not for me, also it weighs 6kg Good luck with your rifle search. If you buy a rifle off the shelf you can always trick it up later on. A McMillan stock order will take at least 6 months. Cheers Bob |
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@ 05:36 pm (GMT) |
Bob MavinRe: Best All round rig for my Budget ?I forgot to add this linkhttp://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/guns/rifles/centerfire/2007/10/model-70-back-action |
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@ 06:35 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Best All round rig for my Budget ?Thanks Bob, perfec.Jit, You will also find that True-Flite are more than happy to build on the M700 action. They have the tools to correct any and all faults. |
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@ 08:06 pm (GMT) |
Bob MavinRe: Best All round rig for my Budget ?Quote: G’day all
I’ll have a very good unfired 30 cal 28” stainless barrel for sale soon, taking it off a Rem 700. I bought an F class rifle from a deceased estate, one of many he had. The guy had it built but never got to fire it. Remington 700 action HS precision stock, jewel trigger and a 28” stainless barrel chambered for 30-06 #5 contour I think? My smith thinks it’s a high quality cut barrel but not sure what make it is yet till he has a better look at it. Any way it’s coming off to fit a 30-06, 24” light weight, #3 for me (old bloke) to carry around the bush. I’ll put it in the for sale area when its ready. Regards Bob G'day all I just had a call from my gunsmith that's fitting my new barrel. He said the barrel he's taking off is unfired, 28" chambered in 30-06 AI. He said the works been done by a very good tradesman, but wishes he had stamped it with the barrel make as its a top shelf barrel. I'm wishing I hadn't been so quick to order the new barrel! Cheers Bob |
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@ 09:23 pm (GMT) |
Bob MavinRe: Best All round rig for my Budget ?Hi NathanWhat do you think of a 30-06AI in 28" barrel? I'm thinking it would be good with 180gn pills? Regards Bob |
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@ 11:30 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Best All round rig for my Budget ?Should be a doozy- why not. You may be able to recontour before refitting to save weight? |
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@ 12:29 am (GMT) |
Bob MavinRe: Best All round rig for my Budget ?Quote: Should be a doozy- why not. You may be able to recontour before refitting to save weight?
Hi Nathan I bought the rifle for the action, trigger & stock then sell the 28" barrel, he's fitting a No.4 maddco in 30-06. If I'd know it was a 30-06AI I would of ripped a few shots through it. At least now I can put it on used guns as unfired. The Red's are roaring, so I'm out of here for the next week! Cheers Bob |
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