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> elk bullets for 300 weatherby
elk bullets for 300 weatherby
@ 09:01 am (GMT) |
Brent NewmanI got lucky this year and drew a tag for a very good elk unit that has some large bulls. I was thinking about taking my 300 weatherby. I read over Nathan's book chapters on the big 300 cartridges and was thinking a 225 eld-m or 220 eld-x would be good. However, I may have shots inside of 100 yards and I am not a long distance hunter and am comfortable out to 400 yards. I was thinking maybe the best option is something like a 200 grain A Frame or similar and would avoid dual loading. My ballistic calculator suggests that despite the low BC, the A frame has plenty of gumption out to 400 yards out of a 300W. Any thoughts?By the way I am an eld-m fan. Several years ago I read Nathan's discussion on the 300 Savage and thought it would apply to my 30 cal thompson contender pistol. I have been loading the 155 grain eld-m and have shot multiple antelope out to 300 yards. I have been amazed how the antelope just crumple without taking a step. My friends shooting faster rifles don't have this happen nearly as often as I do. My load toddles along with a 2400 fps muzzle velocity and is basically the hammer of Thor on antelope. Thought it was worth mentioning that the eld-m's aren't just for 800 yard shots. They are the berries for single shot pistols and older slower rifles in terms of improved accuracy and terminal performance. |
Replies
@ 04:34 am (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: elk bullets for 300 weatherbyHi Brent. Bullet selection and shot placement for large deer (elk, reds, Sambar, moose) comes up fairly frequently here. If you scroll through the Medium and Large Game Hunting section, you’ll find the discussions. The one I started a couple years ago is entitled “Head Shots.” Nathan and others replied at length. There have also been discussions of whether a frangible bullet such as the ELD-X can make it through shoulder bones, mostly from 6.5 fans. The way I approach the question is to assume I’ll hit the shoulder, or have to take a quartering-away shot. Like you, 400 yards or less is my comfort zone. So I’d go with an A-Frame, Accubond, or other bonded bullet. A Partition would also be a best-of-both-worlds choice. |
@ 10:43 am (GMT) |
Rob BirdRe: elk bullets for 300 weatherbyI hope this doesn't come across as inappropriate but I have some 200 grain Partitions that I will part with. Let me know if you're interested. |
@ 08:56 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: elk bullets for 300 weatherbyHi Brent, this good to ask this question. The calculator may tell us that the bullet will arrive at 400 yards in reasonable shape, but it cannot tell us what will happen when it gets there. The Swift works well in close and out to about 300 yards in a magnum. This bullet does however suffer quite a bit of wind drift and and by the time it reaches 400 yards, it will (if loaded to between 2900 and 3000fps) be below 2200fps, resulting in limited expansion due to the front core bonding. So the problem is two fold - a degree of error caused by drift as well as limited wounding, the latter necessitating minimal shot placement error. The two simply don't go together. The A-Frame is a good bullet but it does have its limitations.Options - 1. Limit shots to about 300 yards. 2. Take up Rob's very kind offer. 3. Dual load - Swift / ELD-X. Sight in with the ELD-X. Let the A-Frame group / shoot where ever it wants to shoot, simply making a mental note of this. I don't mean to hijack this post but for the sake of all readers, I would like to address 400 yards as its own subject. Sometimes we have to be a bit careful if we have a belief that we "don't shoot long but am good to 400". I have a few readers here at present who would do well to heed this. This statement can allude to a form of dabbling. It may sound reasonable but sometimes, what we are saying is - I want to shoot as far as I can without any further commitment to learning. The trouble is, wind drift can ruin a shot just as easily at 400, as it can at 600. If we combine this with an unwillingness to learn how to overcome drop with precise dialing (instead using a hold over reticle), results can be disastrous. Working the trajectory out to 300 yards is reasonable, but at 400 yards I think we have to ask ourselves just what we are about because we may not be doing ourselves any favors, twiddling our toes in long range waters. The fact is, 400 yards is a long way. There may be a host of reasons why we do not want to (or sometimes cannot) commit to learning. For most, it is simply a lack of confidence. Confidence is built by taking steps. My books show the steps, but action is required to build confidence. For others, it is a matter of funds - the cost of suitable optics. Finding a place to practice is another issue, though most would be surprised how much can be achieved by sticking to 100 yards and simply playing daily wind guessing games with a local weather station / hourly report. But then of course there are those who are too lazy and too self absorbed to want to learn, robbing themselves of any achievement. The same can be said of those who want to shoot long, placing complete reliance on tech - mummy do it for me. What ever the case, my intention is not to push the reader of this post past 400, but rather, to prevent the reader from trying to takes shots without making a suitable commitment. This is exactly the sort of thing some gun writers do when they test the next greatest bullet, showing some poor animal shot at the limit of the scope drop compensation reticle (limit of their intellect) with congratulations all around, plastered on the cover of the next gun rag. It is far better to be confident at 600, before taking that shot of a lifetime at 400. Again, sorry to derail this thread but it might provide a lightbulb moment for some readers. |
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@ 04:22 am (GMT) |
Brent NewmanRe: elk bullets for 300 weatherbyHello Guys, Thanks for the help.Scott the head shot discussions were helpful. Rob, I am interested in the partitions if they are still available. Nathan, no one has ever accused me of being a dabbler before! Seriously, I take your point. In my case 400 yards is more about logistics. I can shoot to 300 at my local range, but there is one without too much driving that I can go to 500. To support your thoughts, I am committed to mastering a step up to what I am used to shooting locally. Maybe I was conservative about the 400 yard limit and I think I will shoot both 400 and 500 and see where I am confident by the time my hunt starts. Some ELD-X's just arrived so I can get started loading and shooting now. |
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@ 11:02 am (GMT) |
Rob BirdRe: elk bullets for 300 weatherbyBrent, are you here in the States? I'm not sure what is the best way to exchange contact info. Is it kosher/advisable to post it here? Maybe Nathan can pass you my email address. I don't see any private messaging here. |
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@ 08:54 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: elk bullets for 300 weatherbyHi Brent, I will delete your last post for your security.Rob will have been sent the post so no need to keep it up here. |
@ 10:40 am (GMT) |
Martin TaylorRe: elk bullets for 300 weatherbyThis is an interesting read/topic guy's.Shooting the win mag for many years the go-to projectile was the 208gr A-max now ELD-m. This is good for point blank out to max killing range of the cartridge on large game. No need for dual loading, etc. it will just do the job (in my experience a true allrounder in this cartridge). Does the extra power/velocity of the Weatherby change things enough that the heavier 225gr ELD-m will not stand up to close quarters shots? |
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@ 06:15 am (GMT) |
Rob BirdRe: elk bullets for 300 weatherbyI'm not sure where to look to see the post that you deleted, Nathan. I didn't get an email that I can find.Martin, you never had bullet blowup issues inside of 100 yards with the 208gr ELD-M? |
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@ 03:35 pm (GMT) |
Martin TaylorRe: elk bullets for 300 weatherbyNo Rob, never had a failure. I know the velocity is lower and maybe that's the reason.Purposely placed shots through blade bone, continuing through ribs with massive internal damage on Sambar Stags at 90 yards. Shot all sorts of light & heavy bodied animals with that combo out to max range. Conduct your own local tests. A big shoulder knuckle may cause failures, Nathan or Steph will have reports/photos from around the world. Just haven't seen any or discussing this combo with other local guys. Its just an observation hence the question. |
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@ 11:07 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: elk bullets for 300 weatherbyHi Marty, hope all is well with you and your family. Yes, the 225gr could work or the thicker jacket 220gr ELD-X. Weight is a key factor. If however the hunter wants to discuss a premium, I try to help as best I can. It also pays to keep in mind that U.S hunters like to be prepped for potential bear encounters. Exit wounding may be another expectation. It just depends on where the person is at, their expectations etc.Certainly many angles to look at this from. |
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@ 10:25 am (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: elk bullets for 300 weatherby“In the fall of 1946, a stubborn, mud-caked Canadian moose failed to go down, despite a well placed shot from John Nosler’s 300 H&H.”That’s from Nosler’s web page on the history of the Partition. Was it the caked mud? The stubbornness of the moose? Did he hit the shoulder ball joint? What was the range? The bullet weight? Was it a round nose bullet? In any event, it’s the stuff of anecdote. You Kiwis always amuse me with comments like Marty’s . . . “Conduct your own local tests.” No offense, Marty, but it’s just not possible for me to test. I have to rely on your experience and expertise to guide me. We in the US are severely restricted in our hunting opportunities. As Brent said in his original post, “I got lucky this year and drew a tag for a very good elk unit.” Drawing a tag to hunt elk in a good area can take years of planning and expense. I’ve been applying for 4 years for a cow elk tag where I live. I’m lucky to live in a state that allows bull elk hunting for 7 days without drawing a special tag. But the problem is, the season is in November, long after the rut (or “roar,” as you guys call it) is over. John Nosler was probably using a 180 grain bullet. Are you guys so sure another 40 grains would prevent a cup and core bullet from going “splat” on a shoulder? |
@ 11:39 am (GMT) |
Lane SalvatoRe: elk bullets for 300 weatherbyBrent, if you like the ELD-X or ELD-M in 220 or 225 grain, respectively just use them. Either will flatten an elk. You can be confident in them. If it were my hunt I would have no hesitation taking the ELD-M but it's your hunt, so it's up to you.I like the 208 grain ELD-M just fine. I know they'll work well. It's just that I'm a junkie for heavy projectiles when I'm hunting heavier deer species. I hope you have a ball up there. |
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@ 11:29 pm (GMT) |
Rob BirdRe: elk bullets for 300 weatherbyI admit I did take Marty's statement to mean that I should buy a pig or something with the shoulder blade still in place and take a shot at it from close up!Our testing and our hunting are the same thing, as they are for you, but we only get to shoot one a year if that! Where I live it's all whitetails and we definitely can take more than one per year. Except in the exact area I live in, I can't even hunt with a centerfire unless it's a straight-walled cartridge like .45-70, 44 mag, 350 Legend, etc. A little further out I can hunt with centerfire for 2 weeks a year and I can usually make just one overnight trip. :( If I lived in the southeast US I could hunt lots of wild hogs for testing, but alas, they aren't where I live. |
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@ 11:08 am (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: elk bullets for 300 weatherbyHi Rob. That reading of Marty’s comment hadn’t occurred to me! Here in Oregon, the mature bull elk weighs 700 - 1100 pounds, the average cow, 600 pounds. An animal of that size is what premium bullets were invented for.I can hunt bulls for 7 days in November without drawing a “controlled” tag. The success rate is 7%. If I draw a controlled tag next year, I can hunt “antlerless” elk Jan. 1 through Mar. 30, including bulls that have shed their antlers, the success rate being 55%. |
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