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> Which 200 grain .308 pill for Sambar?
Which 200 grain .308 pill for Sambar?
@ 08:12 pm (GMT) |
Paul WeeksHi All,I have a Browning BLR in .308 which I'm planning to use in the thick stuff in our Vic high country, having just upgraded from a Marlin 30-30 (and yep, I did kill a few medium-sized Sambar with it for the freezer). I use peep sights and only shoot out to about 150m max. I'm looking to my maximise my killing power, and to that end I'm weighing up either the 200 grain Nosler partition, or 200 grain Hawk with a .035 jacket. I figure I can hand-load them up to about 2300fps. Question: does anybody have experience with either or both, and an opinion as to which is better for this application? Cheers, Paul |
Replies
@ 08:02 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Which 200 grain .308 pill for Sambar?Hi Paul, for some reason, people have it their heads that the Hawk bullets are bonded, possibly because Hawk use the term '80 - 95% weight retention' which is the same rhetoric used by other makers flogging the same horse. In any case, it is important to understand that these are a very basic bullet design but with more care taken toward materials selection and usage.Regarding your .308, the muzzle velocity you should try to work toward is about 2450 to 2475fps. At 50 yards, you will be down to about 2300fps and 2200fps at 100 yards. The Partition produces a good balance of wounding and penetration at these impact velocities. In use, you will find it difficult to surpass. For example, a fast expanding 200gr ELD-X produces a wider wound on Sambar, but less penetration. A stouter copper pill produces superior penetration, but with a smaller wound, though it is possible to obtain a reasonably broad wound using a 165gr TTSX driven fast and used at close ranges. But again, you will see the balance produced by the Partition through visual observation. The Hawk has merit with regards to low impact velocities, especially if you are unsure about hand loading and stick to the regular book formulas. The round nose variant has good trauma potential but will also shed a little more speed which offsets things a little bit. If you end up with a very slow load, you may possibly find this to be the better bullet simply due to the softer jacket and core. The Partition is near to the end of its performance spectrum by the time it reaches 2200fps. Wounding tapers off at 2200fps and down to its cut off point of around 1800fps, requiring good shot placement in order to prevent long dead runs. A softer bullet is slightly more forgiving under these circumstances. I could go either way with this in the .308, simply because of the heavy weight / low impact velocities which aids penetration. I would therefore advise that you try one for a time, then the other. After taking various factors into account (your hunting methods / typical ranges / angles) and observing wounding vs penetration, you will soon know which fits you best. |
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@ 12:35 pm (GMT) |
Paul WeeksRe: Which 200 grain .308 pill for Sambar?Hi Nathan,Thanks so much for your response. Lots to think about. I didn't think Hawks were core bonded, but I read your piece somewhere about them, and their explanation about the pure copper/pure lead materials and how that works, and thought a 200 grain Hawk at 2300ish might work well. Besides, the NPs are going for drug money at the moment! My BLR has a 20inch barrel, so that's what I was basing 2300fps on. Do you think I might get more? Given my average shot range is about 50-90m offhand, what would you suggest as alternatives to either of the above if I can't or don't want to pay for them? A 200grain hotcor, or maybe even a 180 grain pill of some sort at a higher velocity? Woodleigh maybe? I also have some Sako Powerhead Blade 162 grain factory ammo too, which claims to be pure copper, and so more ductile than gilding metal. Their website claims 2674fps but they don't say what barrel length. Any thoughts on those? Cheers Paul |
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@ 01:00 pm (GMT) |
Paul WeeksRe: Which 200 grain .308 pill for Sambar?P.S. I found this: http://hardhittingshootinglab.com/2020/04/06/sako-powerhead-blade-162gr-308win-factory-cartridge-bullet-test/I ran a ballistic calculation, and I reckon worst case scenario, working on a muzzle velocity of 2525 (advertised minus 150fps for a 20inch barrel) they would be travelling at 2307fps at 100m. |
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@ 08:08 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Which 200 grain .308 pill for Sambar?Hi Paul, at 20" you can still load a 200gr pill to 2400fps. It does however help if you have a chrony on hand.Copper is copper. What you will find that is that with the Euro bans, bullet makers are focusing on copper bullet marketing which is entirely different to focusing on bullet design. The big boys (Europe) have had their backs against the wall (financially) for the last two years so there is not much money going into R&D. Its cheaper to rent a high speed camera, buy some gelatin and hire a 20 year old film student to work wonders. That aside, if you can get the speed, then the bullet will work as a result of basic hydraulic principles. Ideally however, it is good to get the bullet up around 2700fps. At 2300fps, your deer will run a long way if hit behind the shoulder bone. You now have three bullets on the table. A very soft projectile (Hawk), the slightly stouter Partition (soft ogive, partitioned rear core) versus a tough projectile. To simplify matters, you may want to start in the middle, see how the Nosler performs, then decide whether you need a harder or softer bullet, versus the types of shots you take. Having said this... Thinking about open sights versus potential shot placement error, I would suggest that you look toward maximum wounding, putting this ahead of penetration. You must take this into consideration when looking over results (observing kills). For all I know, you may be better off with the Hawk or even the 200gr ELD-X. You will just have to see how you go with the rifle with regards to the open sights, the Browning trigger and the entire forearm assembly / accuracy potential of this rifle. But if I was to hazard a guess as to how you will get on with this rifle in the field, I think that after observing kills, you may end up looking to max wounding (e.g. gut / liver shots etc) rather than penetration. All theory goes out the window when such factors are at play. Do not expect the copper pill to produce a fast kill if you or the rifle cannot produce good field accuracy. If you strike the gut, the bullet may not for example rupture the nearest fast bleeding organ (the liver). Death may take hours to days. OK, hope that helps a bit more. |
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@ 11:23 am (GMT) |
Paul WeeksRe: Which 200 grain .308 pill for Sambar?Hi again Nathan,Think I'll start with the partitions and load as fast as possible. I have access to a chrony, so 2400 here we come. I do take your advice and aim forward - that's what helped me harvest deer with the 30-30 (with Nosler Partitions). Also, I may have been lucky with this BLR; it's trigger is better than the Marlin. It's not match quality, to be sure, but I find it's a case of what one gets used to. I can obtain pretty good accuracy offhand, and that's how our terrain dictates we shoot. Thanks again for all your advice and assistance - your books have been invaluable to me, and your knowledge base is the single best shooting resource on the internet. Cheers, Paul |
@ 07:00 pm (GMT) |
Mike DavisRe: Which 200 grain .308 pill for Sambar?the bog standard 180grn winchester cup n core factory loads worked well for me in same rifle on reds......as I couldnt source projectile as component I used 180grn hornady round nose with great sucess...I wasnt trying to drive them super fast ,just a good stout load for bush work and was more than happy with results...sambar might be tougher animal.... |
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@ 12:59 am (GMT) |
Paul WeeksRe: Which 200 grain .308 pill for Sambar?Hi Mike,Thanks for that. Yep, Sambar can be quite a bit bigger than Reds, but even so many folks use 180 grainers out of .308s on them. I might experiment with both 180 and 200 grain NPs and see what sort of velocity and accuracy I can get. Heck, if I can't get NPs either, I might even try 180 grain Core-Lokts. Cheers, |
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