@ 02:10 pm (GMT)
Ryan NafeThese are some questions Ive pondering for the last few weeks, they stem from my recent acquisition of a Savage MkII FV-SR. In the past, when I was younger and using .22 most often, I wasnt aware of or thinking of things that I am at this stage in my life. If anyone has any answers for these questions Id like to hear them:
- What happens inside the rifle bore when I shoot a mixture of plain lead and copper-plated bullets?
- Are the high-speed copper-plated hollow points worth trying out because of their superior terminal ballistics, or do the corrosion-inhibiting properties of plain lead bullets outweigh any advantage of the high-velocity stuff?
- Is it reasonable to expect fast and clean killing on squirrels and rabbits, in the absence of head shots, beyond 50 yards?
- What is a good cleaning routine for a rifle which fires only copper-plated bullets, vs. one for a rifle that only fires lead bullets?
- Would accuracy really always be best at long ranges (100 to 150 yards) if the ammo was subsonic to begin with, so it doesnt cross the sound barrier at all?
- Is the .22LR a good way to start learning how to read winds, estimate ranges, and then adjust the scope accordingly, or is it a waste because of how much different the centerfires are?
@ 04:37 am (GMT)
Re: .22 LR QuestionsHi Ryan:
The 22LR is a great way to learn to read the wind, at least it was for me and still is. The small and light 22LR bullet is easily moved by winds and it is esier to read winds at these close ranges.
I've used high velocity ammo a lot in the past but mostly at ranges not greater than a 100m because I have not been able to get great accuracy out of it.
I have used match ammo for hunting with great results out to 140m with 40gr lead only bullets. Jackrabbits head shots are easier since its a larger target.
I learned from my dad that when we used coppwr plated ammo we wouod blean the bore with copper solvent first and dry it well, then we would use lead solvent and done.
Also before taking the gun hunting we would always fire at least 10 rounds to foul the bore or accuracy will suffer, we call it greasing the barrel.
Hope this helps and beat regards
@ 07:57 am (GMT)
Re: .22 LR QuestionsI have a CZ455 with all 3 heavy barrels, .17hmr, 22mag, 22lr and I use them heavily at the range. I load for 7mm and .270.
I take the CZ and one or both of the others to the range. I shoot the center-fire caliber 3 rounds and then I put it down and shoot the CZ for a bit. I have the CZ set up pretty much exactly like the 7mm as far as scope goes and they feel very similar so it is excellent practice for less $$$ and keep the barrels cool.
I am really liking the .17 on a calm day because its pretty darn accurate out to the 200. The 22 mag is good on the 100 yrd targets. I pour rounds through the 22lr at 50. All 3 barrels seem to love the CCI varmit rounds.
I do dial around on all my scopes alot. I have used the CZ with all the barrels enough now so that when I put a different one on I can dial it pretty much right up before i take a shot. In the wind the smaller calibers give plenty of opportunity to practice dialing in.
I learned a trick from an elderly target guy here in town who has forgot more about accuracy then I will ever know. I bought a home weather station to gauge wind. I use a thin bamboo stick with some cassette tape and some orange flag tape (heavier). I watch the tape and watch the wind speed at home. At the range I put the bamboo up and I use the way the tape is moving to tell me what the wind is doing down range. My range is pretty good for setting this up. Now I know that out in the field this is not possible but it is all about getting a feel for it.
Around 8000 more shots and I will be proficient.
I clean every time I use the guns. Use Wipe-out tactical and accelerator pretty much exclusively now
@ 01:24 pm (GMT)
Re: .22 LR QuestionsGreat post guys. When the thistles are spewing seeds into the air you can watch them thru the scope lens and see what the winds doing. Grass, trees, dust, all are indicators of your surroundings. The beaufort scale has good visual descriptions of the winds different strengths at sea and on land.
If you Know things like the average hight of shrubs. The Distance between fence posts. Hight of animals at the shoulder. With some time and effort you can get to know what size and scale your surroundings are.... but as Robert has shown! The more you shoot the better you can get. "Practice makes perfect"
@ 03:35 pm (GMT)
Re: .22 LR QuestionsHey thanks for all the responses, fellas.
Luis, what you mentioned about match ammo and headshots is something Ive been thinking about. Generally the .22lr rifles are pretty picky about ammo, it can take a lot of trial and error in ammo types before you find one that the chamber and bore seem to do best with. So if I find a solid that does far better than any of the hollow points, Ive considered sticking with it and going for head shots, though I usually dont like the idea of limiting the target area so much.
Its good that you guys think it can be a good idea to use the .22 to begin to practice wind reading with. That sort of thing is part of why Id gotten the Savage to replace my semi-auto, I wanted something that was more accurate and could be paired with a solid scope setup.
@ 09:10 pm (GMT)
Re: .22 LR Questionsi have been playing with 22lr and multiple ammo a lot lately.
to go deer/pig hunting its about 2 hours drive minimum for me.
range is an hour away but i have a horse farm i can shoot rabbits on about 10mins from home, only downside is it has 2 main roads running on two sides so i got to really pick my shots.
i was using a 10/22 but nz government kindly brought me a new tikka tx1 22 when i handed in few odd parts i had lying around.
first trying to achieve best accuracy.
10/22 is standard carbine model except for volquartsen trigger kit,
i used dpt suppressor changing number of baffles to tune it, then tried one of the limbsaver barrrel tuner thing.
finally played with torque on action screw.
followed nathan's basic tikka centrefire rifle set up from the book,
added the wider forend add on and also added factory rubber recoil pad to as tx1 just has plastic one.
then talked to a friend of mine and he had removed the little plastic wedge they have under barrel on the tx1 and free floated barrel,
he reckon it didn't help accuracy as such but stopped the flyers you have ever so often.
i did the same thing and had same results.
make me wonder if flyers are ammo or bedding on most 22's unfortunately only other 22 i have is norinco jw15 and im not in a hurry to tie up my time bedding it etc.
as for ammo
years ago all i use to use was federal bulk packs 525 rounds shooting possums, have learnt lot since those days.
hyper velocity trends to go transonic somewhere between 50 and 80 yards so you'll get good groups til then they just go all over the place.
best solution is stay under speed of sound the whole time.
most target ammo is subsonic so that's fine, as for target ammo i just use cci standard velocity it's available and cheap.
subsonic hunting ammo is where i have been do most testing
i was using cci suppressor rounds 45gr lead hollow points at 970fps i really like these rounds, they are quiet function in semi autos, accurate and kill well.
only down side is they punch straight through and you hear them hit things behind rabbits, fine if you got clear fields around you but not so good in built up area's.
cci segmental subsonics 40gr copper plated at 1050fps.
these are designed to segment into 3 pieces when they hit the animal, found they work extreme well and some messy exit wounds but occasionally they seem to not be as good,
cleaning wax out of tip and slightly opening up tip with drill bit seems to help with consistency.
cci segmental quiets plated 40gr copper plated at 710fps.
these are mainly only handy because of the low noise, you can watch them in your scope going down range.
have massive drop and best to clean out wax and open tip up on them.
but they are fun through a suppressed rifle, won't cycle a semi auto.
i put segmental subs and suppressor rounds through a chronograph
10 rounds of segmentals es 109fps
6 rounds of suppressor es 11fps
i think that's something to do with copper jacket but until i test other brands i can't confirm it,
i missed a few rabbits around 120 yards with segmental and i believe the es might be part of the issue.
i have been test other ammo at the range
eley subs 40g 1045 fps
wincherster sub max 42gr 1065fps
fiocchi sub sonics 40gr at 975fps
found most of the subsonic ammo shoots to same or close enough point of impact out to 50 yards
so will test them all on rabbits, when you change ammo it can take few rounds for barrel to settle into the new brand, think it's to do with the wax but just something to be mindful of.
rabbits seem to be easier to kill then possums unfortunately i don't have access to possums anymore to test ammo on, possums being a more solid animal.
ill report back on other brands once i have tested them on rabbits
@ 03:54 pm (GMT)
Re: .22 LR QuestionsThey definitely are picky but once you find something they like you're set. My Anchutz I shoot for standard Silhouette Competition likes Federal Gold Medal Match the best followed by Wolf Match.
I had a CZ we used for hunting but I sold it but a couple of years ago I got a basic 10/22 just for plinking and a couple of months ago I went ahead and tried several ammo options and it loved the Aguila Golden Eagle match, it groups 10 shots at 0.4" at 60m and with the horrible original factory trigger.
My brother found a Boyd's stock at a pawn shop and got it for me and I had a spare Leupold Vari X 6.5-20x40mm Dot recticle scope for silhouette so I put it on and dang it shoots great. Now I just need to change the trigger and all set; I'll have a Silhouette Hunting class rifle and a Hunting rifle at the same time.
It's worth it to try all the different ammo and start with the lowest price ones. For example on my Anchutz I shoot the Wolf on the local matches and the Federal I shoot it on the state shooting championships.