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> Break Barrel action as a long range platform
Break Barrel action as a long range platform
@ 04:01 pm (GMT) |
Randy WikrisHi All,My 14 year-old son is asking me this year for a break barrel rifle in 7mm Rem Mag. Long story as to how he came to this decision but it mostly stemmed from what he’s seen in video games tempered by my coaching in rifles and cartridges. I never would have come up with this combination but I’m encouraging his exploration provided it’s not just silly. We hunt deer in Pennsylvania with very little opportunity for shots past 75 yards so the long range capacity of the 7 mag is not needed. However, like me, my son is starting to enjoy refining his longer range shooting and precision. So while the range of the 7 is not needed, we enjoy the practice and the magnums. We’re also both somewhat lucky with reasonable tolerance for recoil. I’m cautious with it and do pick up some nerves from time to time, however he, at 135 pounds, doesn’t even bring it up. So neither do I. He shoots my 7 mag with ease. Anyways, I was intrigued by his suggestions of this combo. The short action of the break barrel and the 7mm RM’s demand for a full length barrel just may come out nice. So I found a used Encore from a buddy at work I can probably get for about 600 bucks with a .243 barrel hanging off it. A new Encore barrel in 7mm RM goes for about 400. Does anyone know if the T/C Encore platform lends itself to good accuracy and balance in the magnum calibers? Sub MOA potential would be a must if I go with 7mm RM. I would never be satisfied with a 7 Mag that could not reach out long. Even if only at the range in my world. It just wouldn’t do. I don’t really need another deer gun. Or even another rifle capable of long range. I simply want to keep my son interested and demonstrate the value of hands on learning and exploration. It’s all I can do to keep him from pestering me about an AR. Maybe if this comes together I can pester Nathan a little on setting this up in 7 Practical. Thanks |
Replies
@ 07:24 pm (GMT) |
Chris MurphyRe: Break Barrel action as a long range platformHi Randy a break action single shot hunting rifle to me sounds wrong. Especially for longer range. The lack of a quick follow up shot is often unfair on the game animal. In an ideal world where every shot is perfect absolutely or just long range targets. But animals moved and though uneven ground though bush so a perfect shot is not always certain could ruin the experience for a young hunter |
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@ 03:29 am (GMT) |
Randy WikrisRe: Break Barrel action as a long range platformThanks for the feedback Chris. I was more or less focused on snap shooting at short range where follow up shots are often poor. That is, if a poorly hit deer bolts across the woods, a follow up shot is a whole set of new problems and decisions. My son has been instructed to hold on any follow up shot until the shot is reasonable. If the deer has slowed down to a point where a follow up is good, the extra 2 or 3 seconds to drop in the next round isn’t going to matter. If he’s not slowing down, I don’t want him shooting at a deer bouncing through the woods anyways. If the deer is hit hard, he will lay down soon enough.But point taken. I brought it up because I want the feedback and am interested in different perspectives and experiences. The follow up concern is on my mind. I’m not a deeply experienced deer hunter but the above reflects my mindset and natural reflex on the matter. All that said, I have zero experience with long range hunting and can see how any follow ups could be especially slow with a break action and involve a different set of decision making. Thanks again |
@ 08:14 am (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Break Barrel action as a long range platformHi Randy. My local used gun shop has quite a few of them for sale, which makes me skeptical of their accuracy. Seems like they would work better with a cartridge that headspaces on a belt, unless you reload neck-sized cases. Here's a link to a shop owned by a smith who purports to know how to tune them: https://www.bellmtcs.com/blog/how-to-make-encores-and-g2-work/ |
@ 09:31 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Break Barrel action as a long range platformHi Randy, I went over this some time ago here on the forums but cannot find the thread just now. This is a handgun that has been dressed up as a rifle.In plain terms, this is not ideal for starting out. It will set up bad habits due to the stock pitch and poor cheek weld. Optics generally have to be set high and back towards the shooters face. The butt is by contrast low. In form, it is akin to attempting to learn boxing with ones weight on the back foot. The barrel will always be at the mercy of the forend. The barrel cannot be floated. Accuracy is best in lower powered / velocity cartridges which do not boast a great deal of harmonic whip. Some shoot OK, some don't, as can be expected with harmonics. But as I have said, accuracy is only a part of the issue. This rifle does not lend itself well to good technique. Ideally, it is good to start with a rifle that has a good ergonomic form and inherent accuracy potential by design. This will allow your son to work to a goal. Without consistency in the rifle, he will not learn to differentiate between his errors and those of the rifle. The teenage brain is indeed questioning everything at this time. But we must still provide some guidance, fending off distractions. As you said - "I’m encouraging his exploration provided it’s not silly". In much earlier times, a 14 year old young man would by now be either nearing or engaged in an apprenticeship, no different to young male animals kicked off the tit and running with alpha males. I know, its always difficult, working out just how far to go with teenage decision making. You are not alone with this question, the previous post I mentioned was of an identical nature. I believe many folk look to the TC as a possible youth gun. Others will benefit from your question. Ultimately, it comes down to this - Son, what you want comes second to the needs of the animal. The animal deserves a fast and clean death. A high powered cartridge can be very effective, but cartridge power alone cannot always achieve a fast kill. If you put the animal first, you will find that this is actually in your own best interests, having an effect on the tools you choose and the methods you employ to use them. A more useful power will come with the development of your own skills. |
@ 12:25 pm (GMT) |
Warwick MarflittRe: Break Barrel action as a long range platformRandi. Here's my 2c opinion......Buy him a good bolt action rifle!You're NOT! going to fork out $1000 for a single shot junk gun that we all know will just maim animals and your boy...... would you buy him a Samaria sword to dress deer if he asked you too? Do you stab yourself after sharpening your knifes to check that their sharp enough? Nah..... I would get this deal for under $900 + free shipping. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020188467 add this https://www.opticsplanet.com/v/s-tac2-10x32hhr2-sightron-s-tac-30mm-2-10x32-riflescope.html and these https://www.opticsplanet.com/burris-zee-signature-30mm-rifle-scope-mount-rings-for-weaver-bases.html Wrap it up n tie a camouflage bow round it and give it to the boy with some 162A-max E-Max E-LDM whatever good ammo you can find for his Christ mass.......I bet He won't complain and if he does give it to the NZ Police. They'll crush it for free! As per the UN charters rules....... Or here's a Dirty oh six for $690 + free shipping https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020193155?pid=621899 If you get him a great rifle in a good caliber it'll be a life time purchase. Then you both can set about teaching him how to shoot correctly and precisely. And of course a set of Nathans books will be wrapped up with it too ....... have a great Christmas |
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@ 02:08 pm (GMT) |
Randy WikrisRe: Break Barrel action as a long range platformThanks everyone. I think that about seals it all up. If the platform is not sound, I’m not interested. I’ll give him the feedback and he’ll be fine. We already have a few bolt guns so it’s not really about a need. The conversation did start with my asking what he wanted to accomplish with the rifle. As expected, his answer left me with little to work with. Not that I don’t know what he needs but I’d like him to think his way to a rational conclusion. He likes the 7 mag cuz he got his first deer with it. However I steer him away due to the barrel length and our style of hunting and no real need for him to be dealing with a 26” barrel on a long action. He doesn’t understand that yet and claims it doesn’t bother him. But I know it’s not a good fit for our environment. One 7 mag is enough for our neck of the woods. Oddly enough he asked for a .30-06 almost two years ago and I was impressed. I never though he would have come up with that on his own. He was obviously smaller then and the plan was to load down which is fine, but ever since he popped that buck with the 7 mag, I haven’t been able to get him away from it. Different story but his shot placement was text book. He was listening!Thanks again everyone. I’ll see if I can get him excited about that ‘06 again and we’ll leave the break barrels to the shotguns. |
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@ 03:19 pm (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Break Barrel action as a long range platformI just crossed No. 1 and R8 off my xmas list. |
@ 05:58 pm (GMT) |
Thomas KitchenRe: Break Barrel action as a long range platformThought I just throw it in here as much I agree single shots aren't the way to go for long range precision shooting.Some of the older style single shots, falling blocks etc can be bit of fun in old calibers like 45/70 Even the Henry and bergara/cva can be entertaining. Being single shot you can do stuff like run hollow base lead projectiles backwards to. If he's motivated enough, using Nathan's book it might be worth embarking on accurizing a bolt action as a project together. |
@ 12:39 am (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: Break Barrel action as a long range platformGiven the ranges you hunt at, there is the Baikal MP-221 “Artemida” Side-by-Side Rifle . I have one in 45-70, but they come in .308 and 30-06 as well. Shoots well, though definitely not long range. I had to modify the trigger guard on mine to fit my fingers/hand, but other than that, it is fine. Very strong action as I couldn't find a max load and had to stop through either fear or common sense, not sure which. Looks nice, and is well built, and being a break action, the barrels are longer, but the overall length is still manageable. Plus, there is the "Cool" factor. |
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@ 06:19 am (GMT) |
Randy WikrisRe: Break Barrel action as a long range platformThanks Paul I’ll take a look. If it has all the right shapes for managing recoil and scope mount, it may fit the bill. I’ll read up on it. MOA or slightly more is fine for our area as long as it’s consistent. I brag that my .30-30 makes 7/8” groups. But I never tell anyone that the ammo has several hundred rounds Of development behind it, and the mag has to be full, and it has to be 75 degrees F or above, very slow strings, and across bags with almost no grip on the fore end (Nathan's favorite style LOL). Other than that, it’s about a 2MOA gun. 2MOA is OK for us but it’s shortcomings are always in the back of my mind when I carry it.I group at about 6” off hand at 50 yards with my magnums. I’d like that to be a hell of a lot better but I literally never see anyone else even trying it so I don’t let it bother me. For me and how I hunt, the off hand shooting makes much more sense to work on. Very odd I see very few others working on it. I have two struggles to work on. One is balance, I’m considering adding weigh the the butt to shift the center back. My natural point of aim is consistently a few inches low so I’m always lifting. I try throwing my back foot back but that’s not coming together well. That said, I string left-right not up-down to get those 6”. So the other is trigger pull and trigger weight. I had a negligent discharge many many years ago due to a gloved finger in a trigger guard so I’m sensitive to ultralight trigger pull on the field. Safety sensitive that is. So my trigger pulls don’t get below bottom factory settings (Tikka, x-bolt). Anyway. I’m highjacking my own tread. Lol. I don’t really need precision accuracy, just persistently good, with good natural handling and balance. I’m pushing my son away from the 7 mag so we’re looking at other options. Thanks |
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@ 12:28 pm (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: Break Barrel action as a long range platformRandy, if you can find someone that has one, try it first. I tried to put a cheapie red dot scope and adapters on it, and the 45-70 stiff recoil ended the scopes life rather quickly. At 50 -75 yards, open sights work ok. The stock is not really a recoil handling design, but for one shot off-hand I never really noticed it being problematic. The triggers are probably somewhere near 5 pounds, maybe seven, fair weight to them. The barrels have an extractor, but not an ejector, so rounds number three and four are a bit slow. There are more little idiosyncrasies that you have to deal with, but not a deal breaker. Groups around 2" at 50yds.I picked mine up from the Canadian distributor for $900, taxes in, delivered by Canada Post to my door. If your in bear country, you find a faster follow up than your second barrel. |
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@ 12:42 pm (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: Break Barrel action as a long range platformThat last line should read:If you're in bear country, you won't find a faster follow up than your second barrel. If people start voicing opinions about the lack of quality of the rifle, ask them if they have one. Chances are they don't. I read all the forums and reviews and there comments had no bearing on what I was seeing in my hands. Nice, not spectacular, furniture. Very good fit to the action. Tight fit on all metal where it needs to be (as I said, I've put some pretty stiff loads through this, and it's still as tight as day one). |
@ 07:12 pm (GMT) |
Mike DavisRe: Break Barrel action as a long range platformagree with above comments that a bolt would be better option....now there is a VERY talented chap over in your part of the world who makes some fantasic shooting rifles on all sorts of actions,including break barrels....I will go back onto www.huntingnut and bump a thread containing many of his builds for you to have a look at and make up your own mind.....being in same country as yourself,a phonecall at least might give you some idea of what you are looking at. I read "young fella and then 7mm mag" hmmm that could be recipy for disaster on its own if his form isnt spot on and rifle heavy with good design...a good boot or 6 from rifle not held just right could see young fella develop bad flinch etc etc with all the resulting problems to follow. |
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@ 02:23 pm (GMT) |
Randy WikrisRe: Break Barrel action as a long range platformI agree with 7 mag and his size. Maybe I should back off some. Saving graces are that he shoots trap a lot in the summer so he has good shouldering skills. And eye relief is set up for me and I’m still a bit taller. But good point. I’d hate to see him get hit.Thanks |
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@ 06:03 pm (GMT) |
Mike DavisRe: Break Barrel action as a long range platform[email protected]this is the fella I am talking about,he does great work and is a craftsman of the first water,he has done a lot of break open actions,threads n sleaves a stub barrel,beautiful work hope this helps Mike |
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