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> A bunch of dumb reloading questions for the 308
A bunch of dumb reloading questions for the 308
@ 08:10 pm (GMT) |
VinceHi GuysLooking for some input on reloading for the 308 My hunting mate uses a 308 savage axis which he is looking to replace for a number of reasons (long story) but he wants to replace it with another 308. He likes short barrels and silencers (don't shoot the messenger!) so it will likely be a silenced 18 inch, either a Ruger American or Browning Xbolt. I currently have 2 of Nathan's books, Cartidges second edition and Rifle accurizing and maintenance. Based on my reading the go to for the 308 is likely to be the 168gr AMAX/ELDM. We started hunting the South Island (of NZ) about 5 years ago and both got longer range rifles a 280ai and a 7mm rem mag for this type of hunting so for the purposes of these questions forget long range. The type of country we hunt with the 308 (in my case the 7mm08) is in the Kaimanawas, Kawekas, Ureweras and Puerora, we aren't hunting tops it's all bush stuff so think knife fight not gun fight, average shot is under 50 yards, 10-15 yard shots not uncommon, max shot maybe out to 150 but very unusual. We are also heading to Stewart Island in a couple of months to have a go at Whitetail which again are likely to be fairly close range but a lighter body weight. Is the 168 gr ELDM the best all rounder given the shorter ranges and body weights (looking at Reds, Sika, Fallow and Whitetail in that order) or should I try something else? Should I try dual loading given the span of body weights or the occasional trip to the tops? He has also had a go at Sambar deer (with his 7mm RM) successful once so far but with a difficult find, probably because he was using the wrong bullet, would a 308 be a better choice with the right bullet if it is inside 200 yards? Any advice welcome Cheers Vince |
Replies
@ 09:26 pm (GMT) |
Ryan NafeRe: A bunch of dumb reloading questions for the 308If you’re seeing a high potential for shots with heavily quartering angles on things as large as red deer, I don’t think the 168 grain ELD-M is the best choice, just because of the somewhat limited penetration. It would probably give you a bit of room for error with shot placement, it’s certainly gonna create wide wounding and plenty of damage, but I think the ELD-M/A-Max design is simply too soft for those bodyweights at the ranges you’ve laid out. If you could really pick your shots on the animals and/or were shooting way out long, then it would be a different story.I think you’d be better served by something like a very soft 180 grain bullet such as the Speer BTSP, Hornady SST or ELD-X, Nosler Partition, etc. Or the light-and-tough route, but in your case I really think the heavy-soft approach is best because some of the lighter .308 bullets can’t always be relied upon for raking shots on a 150 kilo deer. But the heavy-soft approach will do the job reliably on everything from a skinny Whitetail to a big Red, either up close or out long. In your case, assuming the twist rate is 1-10 and not 1-12, I would definitely load up some of the 180 grain Speer BTSP’s. Inexpensive, good BC, effective at long range if the opportunity arises, and as a woods bullet for a wide range of deer species I think it’s a very good choice. If you want more reliability then the 180 grain Partition would be the #1 choice. I just ordered a few boxes of the 165 grain BTSP’s for my own .308 as a hack bullet for a hack rifle. Good velocity from a short barrel, high enough SD to give adequate penetration on raking/quartering shots, soft enough to expand very quickly on light deer or long range shots. But it’s a little on the light side for the game weights you’re after, so I’d go with the 180 grain just to get some more reliability on those big ones. I think the Speer BTSP design is one of the unsung heroes of .30 cal. bullets. It’s a very very good design for the low velocity of the .308, and at around $0.15 to $0.20 per bullet, you can practice a lot in both load development and shooting without making your wallet cry for mercy. |
@ 09:13 am (GMT) |
Hamish GibbsRe: A bunch of dumb reloading questions for the 308Hi Vince, I hope you don't mind me adding a question because I believe it's relative(and iv'e always wondered and Im good at asking dumb questions!) but would the 180gr Norma Vulcan suit the ranges/velocities/game you mention or would the velocity be wanting?http://www.nzammo.co.nz/product/11970-norma-30-308-180-vulkan-100-?categoryId=615 |
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@ 09:16 am (GMT) |
Hamish GibbsRe: A bunch of dumb reloading questions for the 308Thats Vulcan with a "K"! |
@ 10:11 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: A bunch of dumb reloading questions for the 308Some good advice, not much for me to add other than top say that the 12 twist will stabilize the 180 grain bullets that Ryan talked about. The Norma bullet is also good. There really is a lot to choose from.If you are confused, start with the 165gr SST as this sits squarely in the middle of all the options. It is neither too heavy or too light, neither too soft or too stout. |
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@ 05:46 pm (GMT) |
VinceRe: A bunch of dumb reloading questions for the 308Thanks Guys,Ryan, front on or quartering on shots are quite common particularly in the roar for us, animals are often walking too so precise aiming can be difficult, big and soft with a bit of margin for error on shot placement makes a lot of sense. Hamish I couldn't remember coming across the vulkan before so I searched the cartridges book and what do you know - there it is in the 308 section as a woods load, I told you it was probably a dumb question! From memory the ruger is a 10 twist and the browning is a 12 so good to know the 12 should be ok for the 180 gr, thanks Nathan. Any ideas on the Sambar question? His 7mmRM is a Tikka Hunter, we are currently developing a 162 gr long range load for it and I have some 175 gr ELDX we could try for this purpose. I think the tikka mag is too short for the 180 gr ELDM if I've understood your writing correctly, so that would be a top load only proposition. I guess the question is 175 gr ELDX in the 7 or one of the heavy 30 cal in the 308, which would be better under 200 or will it not make much difference? Cheers Vince |
@ 06:54 pm (GMT) |
IainRe: A bunch of dumb reloading questions for the 308Re the 175 ELDX in the Tikka 7RM. Most unlikely to stabilize. An acquaintance tried them in 9.5 twist Sako and accuracy went from .5moa with 162 ELDX to more than 2moa with the 175 ELDX. All at 100 yards.ELDXs are very very long. |
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@ 07:03 pm (GMT) |
Ryan NafeRe: A bunch of dumb reloading questions for the 308Nathan, I guess I had always thought the 12 twist in .308 was basically topped out at 165 or so. But in thinking about why I thought that, I honestly can’t remember when or where I had gotten the idea into my head.What is the actual upper limit, or is there really not one unless you’re shooting way out towards 1,000 yards? |
@ 06:26 am (GMT) |
Frank VallichRe: A bunch of dumb reloading questions for the 308Current .308 barrel, hammer forged 26 inch length with a 12 twist:Tested numbers 0 - 5 @ 100 yards. Number 5 required 200 yard shots for accurate measurement. 0/ 165 gr Remington Scirocco cartridges @ 1.25 MOA. 1/ 168 gr Hornady ELD M ( Zombie Max) cartridges at less than .3 MOA. 2/ 168 gr Barnes TTSX cartridges @ less than .5 MOA. 3/ 180 gr Federal Power Shok cartridges @ 2 MOA. 4/ 180 gr Federal Premium Trophy cartridges @ 1.5 MOA. 5/ 178 gr Hornady ELD X cartridges @ less than .3 MOA @200 Yards. Yes the groups were so tight @ 100 that 200 yards was far easier to calculate. The Hornady 168 shot consistently 1 inch higher than the Barnes @ 100 yards. The Federal Poer Shok was a day of frustration with the thoughts of the scope mounts being loose, scope malfunction etc. The first three shots with the 178 ELD X were 3 inches high and 1.5 inches to the right prior to centering the aim point. I considered using these cartridges for distances of 150 to 650 and Hornady Zombie Max for 0 -150 BUT THEN THE SCOPE REQUIRES DIALING. Decided to use the ELD X as THE cartridge. The remaining cartridges will be used in the open sight .308 Benelli R1 as a quick acquisition shot for ungulates and the 180 gr Federal Premium Trophy for bear. Probably working up a load will allow the use of your bullet of choice. A 12 twist will provide accuracy. |
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@ 07:05 am (GMT) |
Ryan NafeRe: A bunch of dumb reloading questions for the 308Well Frank, apparently twist rate isn’t inhibiting any of those impressive results. What rifle is that by the way, the 26” hammer forged barrel? An FN? |
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@ 08:23 am (GMT) |
Frank VallichRe: A bunch of dumb reloading questions for the 308CZ S1M1 750, became accurate after reading Nathans books.The Practical Guide To Bolt Action Rifle Accurizing And Maintenance The Practical Guide To Long Range Shooting It was a heavy fouler at first, almost lost the lands. Wipe Out removed the copper fouling. Mounted the scope projecting the reticle onto a wall 35 feet distance and aligning it against a plumb bomb line as a reference. Prior to gaining knowledge from the written material (hold that fore end, breath, freeing the action, LOP, proper butt end placement - not my butt - rifle butt into the shoulder) it was a crap shoot. Haha! Some days better than others. Some worse than others |
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@ 09:53 am (GMT) |
Hamish GibbsRe: A bunch of dumb reloading questions for the 308Thank you Nathan. Vince, dumb is me leaving my cartridges vol II book on a boat at the bottom of the South Island(and sorry Nathan) I can only hope it has been picked up and given somebody enough of a taste to guide them towards the light and purchase more of the books.Oh well, Christmas is close and at least I don't have to think about what to buy myself this year. |
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