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> I finally bought the bloody book after years of looking at the site
I finally bought the bloody book after years of looking at the site
@ 03:14 pm (GMT) |
PJ MyersI’m REALLY excited to read it. I now feel I’ve earned the right to ask a question. Slight bit of context, I’ve been a hard core bowhunter for a long time (living in the People’s Republic of New Jersey will do that to you) and I’m just getting back in to rifle hunting. Not a reloader, I have my dads old USRAC Winchester Mod 70 .243 that I’ve dialed in with Federal 100 gr Nosler Partitions as well as my Ruger 77 7 Rem Mag that’s sighted in with Federal’s 160 Partition load. I’m confident and happy with both of rifles. Neither are tackdrivers ( 1.5 ish MOA) but I don’t shoot past 300 yds so it’s not a huge issue. I’m thinning the heard, a few unused guns are going to new homes. I’ve been fascinated by TC’s since I was a kid and I’ve picked up a Pro Hunter with a 26” bbl in .35 Whelen that I will be breaking in shortly and I’m really hoping 225 gr Partitions shoot well out of it. If not, given I’ve shamelessly glommed all the free content Nathan has to offer, I know Buffalo Bore has a 225 gr Gameking load that I’ll check out.I’m conflicted over the smallbore barrel for the Pro Hunter and I’d love some guidance. I don’t need maximum versatility-pronghorn, whitetail, mule deer, black bear, caribou and the corresponding African plains game sized animals...impala to kudu at the upper limit I guess, 350 yards maximum. 25-06, .270, 7mm-08 and .308 are the 4 I have it narrowed down to...30-06 is a great cartridge but for whatever reason it’s never done it for me and I don’t handload so .280 seems like a non-starter...though a buddy of mine done knock down a decent moose with a .280 using 140 Fed TBBC’s last year, I’ll have to see if he has pics to share. Given I’ll be using a single shot the long action/short action argument is moot so I’m leaning towards the .270 and shooting (surprise) 150 gr Partitions or Hornady SF 150 gr SST/IB as a combo...25-06 has always fascinated me though, .308 is incredibly versatile and 7-08 came out when I was in my teens and I’ve always wanted one. I’m not opposed to magnums but don’t see the need given my intended use. I really look forward to your feedback. I’m excited, after so many years of lurking and learning, to become part of this community. |
Replies
@ 02:56 am (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: I finally bought the bloody book after years of looking at the siteWelcome to the forum, PJ. Good to have a new voice and fresh eyes.You say you don't handload, so to me, this has to be the priority for calibre choice. You have to be able to walk into Wally World anywhere on the planet and replace the ammo that got lost somewhere along the way. I don't have a .270 or a .308, but I have worn out a few '06s. There are lots of folks that swear by all three. If the '06 doesn't do it for you, the other two are just as capable as hunting rigs, within their limitations. If you do decide to handload in the future, you already have a good standard case to work with, a multiple choice of powder and bullets, and relatively inexpensive tools to choose from. Being that you already have a quarter bore and a 7mm, my preference would lean towards the .30 cals. |
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@ 04:46 am (GMT) |
PJ MyersRe: I finally bought the bloody book after years of looking at the siteMy logic (perhaps faulty) is I’m covered to 350 yds with 160-175 gr bullets with 7 Rem Mag and 200-250 gr with the Whelen...maybe limited to 300 yds with Whelen but I do have a 26” barrel to work with. The gap I think I need to fill is something to handle 120-150 gr bullets on animals 100-400 lbs-whitetail deer being the most commonly encountered species. A .270 seems like a natural fit but I’d really love for folks to poke holes in my reasoning if the logic doesn’t track. |
@ 07:18 am (GMT) |
bryan longRe: I finally bought the bloody book after years of looking at the siteI'm looking for a similar machine, everyone by me has a .308 and it's hard to look past, especially reading the cartridge book.Biggest driver for a 25-06 or 7mm08 would be to have something different, but I can only get 139 grain in different flavours of 7mm08 and nothing else. 26-06 in a few weights, but it dislikes wind. At the moment I'm thinking a 700 tactical with 20' barrel and bed it to a HS precision stock. |
@ 08:07 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: I finally bought the bloody book after years of looking at the siteWelcome aboard JP. It may pay to give yourself time to read and absorb. I know you guys get so enthusiastic but it pays to wait a bit, let things sink in. But I also cannot help but chuckle as Paul and Bryan cut to the chase with some great examples of reliable work horses.I have had to work on the TC single shots over the years, not a fan of the poor ergonomics, increasing perceived recoil. This is the sort of rifle I might use to teach transferable skills (as per my Enfield Russian - see recent blog) but more as a contrast to teach how good technique can be applied to a poorly designed rifle. Unfortunately, this is one problem with jumping into the book series mid way through. When I wrote the series, I started with the platform first (rifles), then continued on. In any case, I fully understand why guys want the TC's, they can be a lot of fun, especially in some of the more unique calibers. But in some cases, the rigs are not ideal if they are to be used as a serious working rifle and especially if you are still learning to manage recoil. Also be very wary of any reviews of these rifles and those posing as experts on this subject. I would rate the current experts of the shooting world at the same level as my day one shooters. And I am sure a lot of folk will scoff at this statement in disbelief- I really don't care. The point is, if you combine this current level of incompetence with a rifle that does not fit well in the first place, it can really send folk off in the wrong direction. If only each of you could see how these videos effect you subconsciously without you knowing it. That's the way Bryan. I know Lane was worried about his recent Rem 20" purchase, everyone moans about quality. But he went ahead, let the rifle do the talking. It shoots well, all bullets touching at 100 yards, factory, hand loads and youth down loads. Amazing what happens when you use those thingies with the five bits sticking out of them at the end of your arms to grip the rifle. |
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@ 08:41 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: I finally bought the bloody book after years of looking at the siteJust to be clear. It pains me to write replies in the manner above, especially when JP, you have been so supportive of us via your book purchase, thank you for that.Many times when I write replies, I think it would be so much easier on me if I could just reply "sounds great Fred, that's a wonderful idea, all the best". But if I was to do this, it would be a disservice to each of you. I would rather help you than be your friends and win a popularity contest. It is a harder path but it is the better path. I think for now JP, focus on the Whelen barrel and see how the rifle behaves. The scope needs to have generous eye relief and to be set well fowards (again, watch that subconscious monkey see, monkey do programming relative to how others have their optics set up). Get the rifle over sand bags and see how the system works for you, no lead sleds or other rubbish, just shoot it and see how you get on. When you are ready, try a field position, still test shooting at 100 yards and observe groups. If everything is working well, this is the time to consider your next barrel purchase. |
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@ 08:43 am (GMT) |
bryan longRe: I finally bought the bloody book after years of looking at the siteI was at a rifle instruction place last weekend. They weren't averse to holding the gun with both hands ; ) .They advised a firm front grip when shooting kneeling with a hiking stick out front or front hand sling wrapped and a good grip again from a heel squat.I'm not real interested in using folding out carbon stick tripods etc. But didn't mention that to anyone lying prone behind their rigs with just a fingertip in contact. Shooting from 100m out to 1,000m The most fun everyone had was with a Henry repeater freehand and an enfield 303. If deer were High Viz Yellow open sights would be a blast. I told them I was there just to practice for hunting.I spent most of the day with a rough weatherby .308. No Bipod and took off the Mod and got to work. The instructor could see what I was at and gave me a knowing smile. They'd a gully you could go through shooting from 80-200 m I shot over a bag and just held the gun with both hands. At 6-8 mag I could see almost every shot as it landed. A friend was using a brand new Bergara 6.5 creedmore HMR (impressive cheapish gun in fairness, it's 1/3 of the price of his other guns). He dialled it in and then I came along and hit 3 for 3 at 850m and 4 for 4 at 1,000m holding that forend!!! More consistently than anyone else shooting that day. Nathan you ever think about writing a book? ha,ha,ha I think most of us are here because we want to look beyond the average or normal or accepted route. I could buy a finished gun, but i know i'll get a bigger kick out of tuning up a Rem 700 without a bipod and Mod. Reading and rereading my books. Many thanks for writing them and for all the guys on this forum, B |
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@ 08:59 am (GMT) |
PJ MyersRe: I finally bought the bloody book after years of looking at the siteFood for thought-thanks |
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@ 10:47 am (GMT) |
PJ MyersRe: I finally bought the bloody book after years of looking at the siteHi Nathan,The Whelen has an older VX 2 3-9 on it I had on another rifle-eye relief is decent, around 4 inches or so. I’ve shot a couple boxes of 200 gr Fusions through it (because they were cheap) almost all offhand at paper plates at 100 yds. We bore sighted it then got it hitting 2.5” high at 100 yds from sticks and I’ve shot everything off-hand since ...I usually hit more often than I miss. Recoil hasn’t been too bad so far and no scope bites yet but I seldom shoot more than 5-6 rounds in a session. As time and circumstances allow I’ll get it dialed in with 225 Partitions (at least I hope they’ll shoot) and I think I’ll be good with it. So now the idea is to get a barrel that I can shoot 120-150 gr bullets out of with an eye towards setting my son up for deer. .270 seems like the natural fit though .308 and 7-08 both make sense as well. |
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@ 07:42 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: I finally bought the bloody book after years of looking at the siteHi PJ, yes the Leupold 3-9 models have had decent eye relief over the years. Provided a rifle has decent forwards mounts, it can make for a very good set up and help alleviate rather than compound issues of fit.How old is your son PJ? |
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@ 09:09 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: I finally bought the bloody book after years of looking at the siteActually I'll cut to the case on this one.The TC forces the shooter into an upright position, hence why it will feel comfortable to shoot as you have been shooting it. But when training kids, we need to set them up for life without handicapping them. That means starting prone with a good rest to shoot over. To my general readers and forum members, if you get a chance to look at a TC Prohunter, I want you to take note of how the base screw holes are in the wrong position (designed to give better access to the hammer). Note how far back it sets the scopes, note how it pops the shooters upright and as though they are on the back foot, caught off guard and avoiding a lead jab (versus lessons in the shooting book). An extended base or extended one piece ring set is required to remedy this. If the rifle is set up for kids without any adjustments made to the length of pull, having the scope set back is not such a bad thing if we can keep the recoil down, but the scope position is still high relative to the butt so there will often be major parallax issues. The triggers are around 6lb which is akin to the poor kid trying to shoot while you pull on the cuff of his or her shooting hand. Its a lot of strain for small hands and fingers. Would you expect your child to carry around a container of milk with their index finger? I started with an Enfield which was no better than this. But I was keen, never timid, would shoot anything handed to me, lived for it, every moment of my waking life. But as time passed, ongoing poor results with poorly set up rifles inspired me to learn more. Having a daughter has also made me a lot more cautious as to how I approach all of this. You are going to have to ask yourself some tough questions PJ. The cartridge itself is at the end of the list. |
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@ 10:43 am (GMT) |
PJ MyersRe: I finally bought the bloody book after years of looking at the siteNow THAT is some really good advice re the Pro Hunter, thank you.He is 13 and about 5’8” and 140 lbs. I have a Mod 70 .243 with a 20” bbl he shoots without flinching but I’m really not keen to have him hunt with it no matter how much better the bullets are now vs when I was a kid. Sounds like it might be a good idea to punt the idea of him shooting the TC and look at a Tikka or Ruger or something of that ilk in .260 or 7-08. I really don’t want him developing bad habits young. I really appreciate that feedback |
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