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> 500-yard bull elk load for .338 RUM
500-yard bull elk load for .338 RUM
@ 02:33 pm (GMT) |
Logan ArmstrongNew member seeking opinions on the better load for Colorado bull elk in the.338 Remington Untramag out to 500 yards. Choices are (1) hand loading Barnes 210 g. TTSX boat tail to about 3,200 fps; (2) hand loading Barnes 250 g. TSX flat base to about 3,000 fps; or (3) Federal factory loaded 210 g. Partition. Also am open to suggested better loads for elk out to 500 yards in this caliber. I recently got this rifle and had to have the Timney trigger adjusted to 3.5 lbs. I also had the muzzle brake removed and the muzzle recrowned. Barrel is now 25.5 inches. Rifle is a Remington 700 stainless with an upgraded composite stock. I haven't been able to sight in yet due to an extremely light trigger pull prior to having the trigger reset. However, I have no trouble with recoil with the former muzzle brake off. Thanks for any help. Logan Armstrong |
Replies
@ 09:35 am (GMT) |
Kenneth KephartRe: 500-yard bull elk load for .338 RUMLogan,338RUM is way more than enough to anchor your bull at that distance. Since your suggesting shots out to 500 yards, i would suggest using a boat tailed bullet, as opposed to a flat base. The TTSX should do you fine. As would almost any premium boat tailed bullet. The guys from Gunwerks regularly tag elk at longer distances with the Berger bullets. |
@ 10:54 pm (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: 500-yard bull elk load for .338 RUMFrom the KB:As a rule, the Barnes bullets perform best by selecting a lighter than normal bullet weight. As suggested, velocity is the key factor for the Barnes. The Tipped TSX design aids performance further, helping to keep velocities high while offering more frontal area, hidden behind the polymer tip. Both the 160 and 185 grain bullets do their best work on game weighing between 90 and 320kg (200-700lb) while the 210 and 225 grain bullets can tackle much larger body weights. |
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@ 02:41 am (GMT) |
Logan ArmstrongRe: 500-yard bull elk load for .338 RUMKenneth, thanks for the reply. No doubt the 338 RUM is up to the task. I am more concerned about bullet weight and BC. I have never used Berger bullets but I see them at Sportsman's Warehouse here in western Colorado. I will check them out. I have had excellent results with Barnes and tend to favor them.Will post some results on both after sighting in. |
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@ 02:52 am (GMT) |
Logan ArmstrongRe: 500-yard bull elk load for .338 RUMAgree that Barnes in lighter weights perform as well as other bullets of greater weight. I tend to favor heavier weights but with the new rifle I am trying to change mindset and try lighter bullets and more velocity. In the past I have hunted and killed elk in Colorado and Arizona with .300 Win Mag., .35 Whelen and even the .375 H&H. |
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@ 11:24 pm (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: 500-yard bull elk load for .338 RUMForgot to welcome you to the forum, Logan.You've probably found and read the Knowledge Base by now, but to really do yourself and the game you hunt a favour, pick up the 2nd edition of Nathan's first book, The Practical Guide to Long Range Hunting Cartridges. You will find more pertinent information to rifles, loads, and bullet performance based on actual field study and not the usual manufacturer endorsed hype. It is truly a wealth of usable knowledge. |
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@ 10:04 am (GMT) |
Logan ArmstrongRe: 500-yard bull elk load for .338 RUMReading some of the material in the knowledge base shows Nathan to be exceptionally well-prepared to write about rifles, bullets and their performance. I plan to order and study the suggested book. This stuff is a breath of fresh air compared to the contents of most of the online rifle forums. |
@ 08:50 pm (GMT) |
Cor NepgenRe: 500-yard bull elk load for .338 RUMHi Logan,This really is an extremely good resource, the book series even more so. I would highly recommend systematically going through the whole series. You don't quite realize how much information is in there till you start reading. It's also an ongoing resource. I have read through most of the books a couple of times and still need to go back and check things. Like most things it is worth while taking a bit longer and doing it well (or at least starting with the right info). I have made mistakes and the people on here are really helpful to offer advice. People are just less inclined to give advice on things in the book series, understandably because that is what allows this great resource to exist and out of respect for Nathan and Steph. That said, welcome! I don't often post but tend to read a lot and leave the advice to the more experienced people here. Good luck! Cor |
@ 09:59 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: 500-yard bull elk load for .338 RUMHi Logan, welcome aboard. Also thanks Cor and Paul for your kind words.As the guys have said, the books delve into this subject in great detail. Once you have read the Cartridges book, you will find it interesting to re-read your initial post. But do keep in mind that each of the books relates to the other as a complete learning package. The 700 is ideal for your .338 RUM, good to have the brake off it too. But as for loads, please take time to consider what I have written in the Cartridges book. Forget all the hype, the gun magazine banter, the youtube clips where the gun bounced on its bipod and killed via a spine shot as opposed to good bullet performance. By reading the books, you will never see any of these magazines, websites or videos in the same way ever again. You will enter a completely different world. If you want to read the book reviews, have a look here: https://www.ballisticstudies.com/About+Us/Book+series+reviews.html |
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@ 08:28 am (GMT) |
Logan ArmstrongRe: 500-yard bull elk load for .338 RUMThanks to all. I have ordered The Practical Guide to Long Range Hunting Cartridges, paperback and digital and started reading the digital version.I am ready to be converted. So far, in the digital copy, I haven't found the .35 Whelen, one of my favorites. I do know, however, that it is not a long-range cartridge and understand it not being written about. Meanwhile I am proceeding to sight in the .338 RUM with a starting zero of 200 yards, using Federal factory 210 g. Partition. I will switch to 225 g. Barnes TTSX boat tail later (because I have a supply of the Barnes). Please don't hesitate to correct/educate me on any of this if need be. Logan |
@ 09:06 am (GMT) |
Martin TaylorRe: 500-yard bull elk load for .338 RUMWelcome Logan, you will be pleased to find out the 35Whelen is one of Nathan & Steph's favorite cartridges & its not only about extended range shooting here or in Nathans Books.I'm not a Barnes fan after trying them in a few calibres and definitely not at any reasonable ranges but you do have the engine room to drive them hard as already suggested/needed. Another consideration may be the 270gr ELD-X coupled with the 285-M if you decide to push things out further. The 285 impressed me running out of Nathans Edge years ago. |
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@ 03:28 am (GMT) |
Logan ArmstrongRe: 500-yard bull elk load for .338 RUMFollowing up my first post: Got The Practical Guide to Long Range Hunting Cartridges Second Edition and am enjoying it and learning. Using the info and trying to forget years of hunting magazine stuff (best magazines are Rifle and Handloader by Wolfe Publishing), I'm fumbling toward a best bull elk load for the .338 Rem Ultra Mag I recently traded for.So yesterday, shooting off the tailgate of a Ford 150 4x4, on leather bags and holding the fore end of the Rem 700 firmly, I shot a 2 1/4" three-shot group at 199 yards measured with a Nikon rangefinder. Shooting 250 g. Interlocks ahead of 85 grains of Retumbo, Federal 215 primer, trimmed Remington brass, COAL at 3.600 (maximum the factory magazine will handle. I quit after that group, partly due to a 45-degree gusting wind, and partly to quit while ahead! For hunting Western Colorado elk out to 500-600 yards, I may use 90 grains of Retumbo in Federal nickel cases with either 270 g. Hornady ELD-X or 250 g.Swift A-Frames. I have the A-frames and have to order the Hornadys. Recoil is manageable, greatly helped by gripping the fore end, something I learned as a kid and somehow forgot. Scope is a Burris Fullfield 4.5x14x, using 10x for the 199-yard shot. No "Weatherby eye" as the rifle doesn't seem to rear back and up, and scope has good eye relief. Any comments will be welcome and I am thick-skinned from years of working as an editor (old Arizona Republic when it was a real newspaper). Strictly as an aside, and as an editor of US publications, I was at first puzzled by Nathan's use of company names as plurals: "Federal have," "Remington have," etc. It only adds a little flavor for a US reader. |
@ 04:10 am (GMT) |
Joshua MayfieldRe: 500-yard bull elk load for .338 RUMLogan, you've got to use moderation in reading Nathan's work. Use of singular and plural verb forms is just the tip of the iceberg. If you overdo you'll end up trying to slip NZ expressions and expletives past your wife. But she'll catch you. And blaming Nathan doesn't help. You can only mutter "bollocks" so many times before Google will rat you out.Please do continue to share what you learn with the .338 RUM. One of the great things for me about this forum is learning some things about rounds I have not had a chance to shoot. Welcome aboard. |
@ 12:00 pm (GMT) |
Warwick MarflittRe: 500-yard bull elk load for .338 RUMThe trouble with shooting from atop a vehicle is the springs and tires let the truck body move and wobble about. Get on the ground shooting over a pack as Nathan suggests. Or use a proper shooting table and shooting bags. Make it easier for yourself and the results will show. You haven't got a chance if you keep adding instability to the equation.......The Human mind. Once stretched for a solution. Seldom shrinks to its former size..... |
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@ 02:39 pm (GMT) |
Logan ArmstrongRe: 500-yard bull elk load for .338 RUMWarwick, yes, another ingrained habit to be done with, shooting off the tailgate. I know better, just too convenient. I may get a shooting mat as the adobe dirt/mud here gets into everything if you get down on it. That's only for sighting in, not for hunting. One look at a six-point bull and mud don't mean a thing. Seriously, I'll take your counsel and start shooting off a pack or table and shooting bags.Joshua, I'll keep "bollocks" to a minimum. It might also mean "to botch," (Middle English "bollix") and I'm doing too much of that now, as I'm learning here. |
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@ 04:07 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: 500-yard bull elk load for .338 RUMOk Logan, lets get to this.Yes, get on the ground, get stable. If you think of this rifle as being a heavy weight 7mm-08, it will help you get your head around it better. By running a slow heavy and long for caliber pill, it will cross the gap to the lands while still being guided by the case. The low velocity will allow the bullet to engage in as gentle a manner as can be achieved and overall this works well for harmonics. The faster you go, the closer you need to be to the lands. Your mag box should be 3.7 internally (BDL style floor plate models). If its a detach system, consider replacing it. The BDL bottom metal and mag box is all you need, a Wyatt box if you want to get fancy later. Seating at 3.660, your mag box will easily house the 285gr ELD-M. Take your pick of the two Hornady pills, run one of them for a season, then determine whether you need to change bullet designs. If I had to guess where to start, I would say that yours might like the softer M. Work your loads up in half grain increments. Its quite a costly beast to run but the work has to be done. Watch the bore for heavy copper fouling. You can learn a lot more about this by attempting to wade your way through my use of the English language in the Accurizing book. There is a partner video to this book which you can watch and listen to me butcher the language further. It doesn't matter whether you are confident in rifle work or not, the book and video are helpful if you want to start reaching out and anyone can follow the steps provided they have a bit of patience. Use 275gr bullet weight start data for both the 270 and 285gr. You can work up initial loads in 1 grain increments, two shot groups for now, get yourself to 2600fps, then start more serious half grain incremental work looking for sweet spots between 2600 and 2700fps. The ELD-X has quite a heavy jacket so do not try to interpolate load data for either bullet, just stick to the Hodgdon start data and get the ball rolling. A chronograph is of course essential. My wife tells me that I use the plural 'have' because I see the likes of Remington as a group of people. The editor wanted to change it (poor guy really did have a job of it working with me) but my wife wanted to keep that quirk as it is. When I finally decided that I wanted to write about ballistics, the pages filled a heavy ring binder but when I got to a point where the ring binder was jam packed, I realized that my style of writing had changed a great deal. My writing was (good or bad) a self education. So I started over again and filled another ring binder while gathering more data and notes. At the end of this second try, I found the same problem again so I started over. During this third attempt, the CEO of Zeald (who host for this website) found me going around in circles and decided that it would never see the light of day unless it was published once and for all, article by article online. The result is of course the KB you see here which is near completion (as to the originally planned cartridge list). But once completed, it needs another round of editing and updating. The reality is, this work will never end. In contrast to this, the LR book series was a more manageable affair. |
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@ 02:52 pm (GMT) |
Logan ArmstrongRe: 500-yard bull elk load for .338 RUMNathan, thanks for the reply and for your interest. Today was not altogether satisfactory for me and the .338 RUM. I was shooting in the adobe hills here in a gusting tailwind and my best three-shot group was 5.5 inches from 210 yards. Interlock 250 g., 87.5 g. Retumbo, COAL 3.550I believe it when you and others say to get on the ground, but I shot from a portable table today. We're in a drought here and dust was kicking up as well. But no excuses, and I will keep at it. On the other hand I am starting to really like this rifle. I like how it handles cartridges and the way it shoots. Recoil is less a factor the more I shoot it. Gripping the fore end has helped much. I now have a box of ELD-X and will start working them up as you advise. Regarding your English, it's fine. Your writing is clear and that's what counts. Clarity trumps textbook wordsmithing every time. |
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