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Forum Index > Rifles general discussion > How has the firearm Industry got it & gone so wrong??

How has the firearm Industry got it & gone so wrong??

26 Jun 2018
@ 11:23 am (GMT)

Martin Taylor

Just had a promo sales list sent through from Cleavers here in OZ and the below has me............... dumbfounded.
Yeah that's the best way l can describe it without swearing.

CZ 455 CARBON SNIPER 22LR, 5 SHOT
TACTICAL MSR BLACK STOCK
LIGHT WEIGHT CARBON FIBRE VARMINT PROFILE BARREL
WITH MUZZLE BREAK

What is wrong with us that we could possibly entertain or be convinced that a 22lr could need a muzzle break.
The Industry as a whole is in a terrible place in many ways.

I just ordered a TX3 Varmint & the salesman says to me "are you sure you want such a heavy rifle?" too which l replied "heavy........yeah my arms aren't painted on!".

Replies

26 Jun 2018
@ 03:25 pm (GMT)

Paul Leverman

Re: How has the firearm Industry got it & gone so wrong??
Well said, Martin.

Anything heavier than a phone and it's whine whine whine.
26 Jun 2018
@ 05:25 pm (GMT)

Mike Davis

Re: How has the firearm Industry got it & gone so wrong??
while I agree wholeheartedly its not a new thing by any means....I can recall 30+ years ago seeing .22lr being advertised that looked just like a thompson submachinegun with 50 round drum mag included
the latest trend in shotguns really makes my blood boil,why would anyone want to own a .410 that looks like an AK47 or saiga whateverthehelltheycallit is completly beyound me...pure B.S. Spanker factor is all I can put it down to.
they are in .12ga aswell but for the life of me cant see why you would own one. nothing they can do that existing sporting style ones cant do a whole lot better without having the LOOK of something that scares the bejezus out of many of the public......
the humble SxS reached a pinicle of perfection about the time most of us were born and nothing has really improoved on that since,the U/O could be said to have done same 30ish years ago and the modern berrettas and bennellis are pretty darn fine weapons with classy handling and pointability to burn..... its like sticking a farrari engine in a series one land rover and taking it out on the track......yip it goes fast but will handle like crap....
there are quite a lot of long range marketed rifles out there being sold now that do indeed look like something from leggoland and the price is mind boggling...still wont make a fella be able to shoot to 1km if he dont do the homework. if current trends continue how long will it be till it jumps up and bites us in the bum with pollies looking for votes taking swipe at the rules n regs again....
go wood and blue. (or at least stainless and a proper stock)
26 Jun 2018
@ 05:33 pm (GMT)

Andrew Murray

Re: How has the firearm Industry got it & gone so wrong??
Hehe. Heavy weight barrels are now fluted. I joke but my goodness. A muzzle break on a 22? A 22LR SNIPER rifle? Wonders never cease.
26 Jun 2018
@ 08:40 pm (GMT)

Ben Law

Re: How has the firearm Industry got it & gone so wrong??
I always thought it was funny when I see a 223 or 308 with a muzzle brake...

Some guys are so into the ultralights, i dont waste my time arguing with them, they guys shoot 270's and 708's because they don't like the recoil of anything bigger, a lot don't really understand the recoil vs weight thing.
27 Jun 2018
@ 03:04 am (GMT)

Joshua Mayfield

Re: How has the firearm Industry got it & gone so wrong??
I have two good friends who are wonderful men, but I don't want to hunt with them. Both great guys, but on the topic of firearms and shooting both are allergic to asking advice or admitting they don't know something. It so happened that they were discussing pistol shooting at a gathering Sunday evening. I was holding my five month old and had already made the decision to keep my mouth shut when one said to the other "I'm going to sell my bolt action 30-06 and get an AR before hunting season." The other, who is of the "my 30-06 works and I'm not interested in learning about anything else" mentality, asked why. The first friend said "I'm left handed and I'm tired of the 30-06 ejecting across my face. I want a semi-auto. It won't be a problem then." That's when I left the room. The industry can get away with doing whatever it wants because the majority of us would rather pretend to know something than educate ourselves.
28 Jun 2018
@ 04:50 am (GMT)

Caleb Mayfield

Re: How has the firearm Industry got it & gone so wrong??
Profit margins and ignorance. That's sadly what it really comes down to. There is no functional value and they know it, but I tell you what. Slap a flashy muzzle brake and bipod on a rifle and call it a "sniper" rifle and someone is going to buy it.
All we can do is attempt to educate and be realistic.
28 Jun 2018
@ 09:25 am (GMT)

Martin Taylor

Re: How has the firearm Industry got it & gone so wrong??
Yeah most people are now pre-conditioned to think lighter is better.

On the weekend l hunted an amazing private property for Fellow deer & at the end of the weekend the owner (extremely fit physical trainer) asked if he could look over our rifles. I cleared my Howa SS sporter in a Boyds classic and pasted it to him. How do you carry that all day? Was the first thing he asked. I then informed him it was my young sons rifle and went on the explain the basics of why we don't run "light" rigs.

I don't know how Nathan does it over & over, I tip my hat again to you sir!!

And yes l to comment very little these days either here or face to face.

28 Jun 2018
@ 02:23 pm (GMT)

Shawn Bevins

Re: How has the firearm Industry got it & gone so wrong??
Too much tacti-cool bull crap with all the BS kit you can attach to a gun. I go to the gun club every once in a while and see guns that have lights, lasers, handles, $200 telescopes, and tripods that are useless. I suspect we have raised or watched a generation of recoil sensitive people come in to the sport. Go look at any gun shop and the larger calibers in the used gun rack tell the story.. some of these guns are barely used. I suspect the previous owners heard their older family members telling of days of old "hunting with the 06". A box of 30-06 shells at the bench with poor form, cured their big boomer experiment.

The recent surge in sales for the 6.5s, 22 Valkyrie, 22 Nosler or what ever the new flavor of the day is, shows a move to less recoil. The 22 snipers with the black rifle and the camo bandana are proof that just shooting a 22 stunts your growth. Probably have a top knot too.

I grew up in an area where we used to use shotguns with slugs for deer hunting. A 12 gauge slug out of a shotgun with a poorly fitted stock will make the best shooter flinch.. I still have a case of slugs and I will probably die with a case of slugs. I will say shooting slugs taught me how not to hold a gun.
28 Jun 2018
@ 10:06 pm (GMT)

Jon Short

Re: How has the firearm Industry got it & gone so wrong??
I dunno if Warwick would like your comment about 5he series one Land Rover Mike ...😂👍

Friggn light weight pooters need to man up & get get fit... though I better clarify the man up bit with get fit!
03 Jul 2018
@ 11:42 am (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: How has the firearm Industry got it & gone so wrong??
couldn't agree more Martin
seems funny most rifle manufactures tend to have split it two ways now.
we have crazy heavy rifles with chassis fat barrels etc and yet they still fit a muzzle brake even though most are in mild calibers.

then its the other way ultra light rifle,
savage light weight being prime example, lightened the action, bolt but then attached an ultra light weight 20' barrel.
seen advertisement for fluted tikka's with radial muzzle brakes lately.
the most common howa's here have pencil thin 20' barrels.

it is however good to see companies like bergara to offer their hunting rifles with no3 profiles barrels
much as i like stainless.
the woodsman with with 24" no3 in a classic caliber like 30.06 just reminds me of a time when things were lot simplier
cheers
04 Jul 2018
@ 11:01 pm (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: How has the firearm Industry got it & gone so wrong??
Yeah lets put a tractor makers (Ferrari) engine in a Landie and go racing LOL Don't think about how practical an idea it is. Just join in and do it. "THE PRICE OF ANYTHING, IS THE AMOUNT OF LIFE YOU EXCHANGE FOR IT".
Consumer capitalist colonization is whats happening to the world. Who taught you how to think when you where growing up? Modern education and thought apps remove the need to strategically think your way through life! A Guy says "I wish I had a fantastic hunting rifle"? Well Shit in one hand and wish with the other and see which one gets full first? Bob Marley's songs " Stiff necked fools" , "Crazy Ball heads", "Concrete Jungle" and "Pimpers Paradise". All warned us about the traps of modern living! It would appear that "The Species has Amused itself to death"!!!! Next weak. I'm going to flute my cutlery to lighten it up a wee bit and avoid mussel strain.... Will a heaver trigger pull reduce recoil in my Uber light shooter? Take care.
22 Jul 2018
@ 07:52 pm (GMT)

Ben Law

Re: How has the firearm Industry got it & gone so wrong??
I was just having a look at cleavers website.
If only i was right handed, 300wm howa varmints barreled actions 499... some good deals on rem700 5r milspec's too.
But bugger me, every 20 inch barrel 308 i saw comes with a threaded muzzle, seems like nearly everything one there had a threaded muzzle.
22 Jul 2018
@ 08:45 pm (GMT)

Todd Free

Re: How has the firearm Industry got it & gone so wrong??
We believe the industry has got it wrong, but from their perspective, they are selling what the "majority" of their customers want to buy and they have got it right.

A designer puts 1 metre worth of accessory rail on a .22lr and they can't keep them in stock, do they stop selling them? No, they offer a muzzle brake too, a couple lights, scope level, bore laser, solution calculator, etc etc. Are the traditional wood-stocked .22LR selling better than the ones that look like an assault rifles? Nope. They know their market and are going to make as much coin as they can.

It's just marketing. Gone horribly wrong in our opinions.

23 Jul 2018
@ 06:03 am (GMT)

John D. Hays - New Mexico

Re: How has the firearm Industry got it & gone so wrong??
Todd, et. al.:

In a free market you have the most powerful vote in the free world. Ain’t nothin free. If you don’t want it don’t buy it. If you like it, tell your friends ( as you do here).

If your gal does you wrong there’s plenty of other willing cities.

God bless Capitalism and God preserve our Freedoms.
23 Jul 2018
@ 06:15 am (GMT)

John D. Hays - New Mexico

Re: How has the firearm Industry got it & gone so wrong??
Ha-Ha

“Cuties” not “cities”

Damn all spell checkers and auto-editors and digital nit-pickers, it’s just a deep perspicacious conspiracy to reveal my illimitable illiteracy by the Illuminati.
23 Jul 2018
@ 08:55 am (GMT)

Andrew Murray

Re: How has the firearm Industry got it & gone so wrong??
I'd strongly disagree John. Free Markets don't work when they and the end of Capitalism is a far more insidious scenario than its alternatives. The end of both of these is something like what we are seeing with the rise of Neo-Liberalism. Don't confuse the term liberalism though... Neo-Liberalism is scary and it is the result of capitalism and fee market thinking.
There is less freedom there than anything else I have seen.

I get your point though but we are all here because the market failed us. This really should be in Off Topic however.

That said if anyone walked on to a range with a muzzle break on a 22 I would have a hard time not laughing. Next they are going to have monopods and breaks for your slug gun.
23 Jul 2018
@ 09:09 am (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: How has the firearm Industry got it & gone so wrong??
Air rifles have been braked for a long time. Pisses me off because I would like to purchase a new air rifle, slick trigger, no brake, just for daily offhand practice. The air springs generate good recoil. But these days its all about taming recoil which is understandable for target work and especially youths but a pain in the arse for those of us who want a practice rig to emulate centrefire recoil. These days, the air rifles have all the whistles and bells yet still have Mosin like triggers.
23 Jul 2018
@ 09:55 am (GMT)

Andrew Murray

Re: How has the firearm Industry got it & gone so wrong??
Well... I'm not sure what to say...
24 Jul 2018
@ 01:50 pm (GMT)

John D. Hays - New Mexico

Re: How has the firearm Industry got it & gone so wrong??
Hi Andrew,

I am replying on my computer keyboard and not my f-ing iPhone so any spelling and grammar errors are my own.

Sure, I am willing to take a discussion to Off Topic if we want to get into "Firearms, Capitalism, and Survival of the Fattest." I am not stuck on winning, but strive for being Interesting, Affable, and Entertaining in all discussions.

Wanna?
24 Jul 2018
@ 07:04 pm (GMT)

Andrew Murray

Re: How has the firearm Industry got it & gone so wrong??
I feel your pain man. My Galaxy S5 is atrocious for spell check and autocorrelation... case in point. Who ever write autocorrect and expects to have actually written autocorrelation?

I have created the thread :)
 

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