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Cartridge Research

09 Jun 2017
@ 11:04 am (GMT)

Andrew Murray

Hey just curiously...

What is the suitability of recently killed animals for cartridge research and terminal performance? And for how long if at all after death is the carcass useful for research?




10 Jun 2017
@ 11:32 am (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Cartridge Research
If the kill is fairly fresh Andrew, you can obtain some basic results. There will sometimes be less water in the carcass and rigor mortis will be a factor, but you can obtain basic results that bare some comparisons to live game testing. You should know that I prefer to test some bullets with raking shots on dead game prior to live testing. This ensures that I do not cause any slow / cruel wounds if I do not know the bullet and am unsure of its ability to penetrate.

So while it may not be the same, it is still useful. Note that you cannot really test width of wounding without blood flow / water content, but you will see at least some evidence of trauma potential. Obviously, if you have accrued many live kills along with many carcass tests together, you can eventually interpolate some data. But ultimately, live game testing is the key. Still, carcass tests are far better than wet newsprint or other test mediums.

10 Jun 2017
@ 02:05 pm (GMT)

Andrew Murray

Re: Cartridge Research
Cheers bro,

I had hoped as much. We have a fair bit of road kill around here that can be collected fairly fresh, mostly native stuff but you do get the odd deer. I've seen 3 personally and heard of 2 more in the last few months. It is becoming more common which may work in the favour of hunters having deer hunting restrictions lowered due to their increasing presence as a pest in the general population as well as a pest in terms of agricultural and environmental destruction. It could also mean that deer are generally becoming less shy as they venture into areas that are more heavily populated.

Kangaroos are somewhat more interesting. NSW law dictates that they must be shot in the head or a front on chest shot, it does limit the amount of research that can be done. I imagine more headshots occur due to the fact that you and the roo need not be facing eachother for a shot to occur. The fact that these regulations exist also make me fearful that bad shot placement leads to slow kills, shooting in the head but not fatally for example :(

Assuming people do even follow these regulations... I have seen the evidence that they don't; sadly I have seen 3 individuals gut shot multiple times and strange behaviour after the kills like ears or heads removed, all within about 500 metres of each other.

I am hoping to head out a property this arvo/toinght to break in a barrel for a friend and maybe take a few foxes/rabbits. Not a job for the 308 but the 22 should do the job. Still waiting to get out with Howa to test groups now it has been bedded, we have had constant rain and is only cleared up now.

Cheers again.
11 Jun 2017
@ 06:00 pm (GMT)

mark whiteley

Re: Cartridge Research
Hi Andrew
for clarity on what you have said about shooting roos in NSW (Australia really) Australian hunters are not aloud to hunt/shoot kangaroos without special permission (tags or special licences) to do so, if you were to shoot a dead or injured kangaroo, even one hit by a car in Australia as a mercy kill without the tag's/permission you would be breaking the law and could be charged,
I work as part of a crew who cull kangaroos for the government and it has to be a head shot for ethical reasons (instant death) and when I say head shot I mean brain shot, you cannot brain shoot a roo facing you
it is not just being able to shoot straight, judge distances or knowing where to accurately put the shot but to understand the animals reactions and when to shoot or not, we do not shoot over 200 and cannot have mess ups as we are surrounded by high ranking army personnel and scientists who are with us and record everything
the animals you are seeing are not shot by professionals but by your local cowboys who are not up to accurate shooting and make all of us firearm owners look like hillbilly's and they should not have a gun licence
I know licensed roo shooters who shoot roos for animal consumption and they are aloud to shoot in the chest but the roos are never left behind or shot off the roads
head shooting is not for everyone because everyone is not up to it,
I get that, it is an ethical shot if you are capable of doing it
brain shot animals do not run but I shot a good 10 point red stag this year from 300, I could put my thumb in the hole through his heart, the lungs and liver were destroyed and basically like a liquid and that stag ran into the bush, I did find him but I was getting worried after 4 hours of searching, I have also messed up a lot of meat from shooting deer in the chest from long distance this year as well and I am thinking its better to get in closer brain shoot and eat the whole animal instead of throwing most of the front half away or loosing it as it ran away mortally wounded
anyway I hope you get you cant shoot roo's without the authority
regards Mark

11 Jun 2017
@ 10:16 pm (GMT)

Andrew Murray

Re: Cartridge Research
Hi Mark,

I fully understand that shooting natives is controlled under strict regulation (even if they are in plague numbers in certain areas). This is the country in which I live and if I truly want looser regulations around shooting animals I'll move to a country where looser regulations exist.

That said, the point I was making about roos was only that cartridge research would ahve to be fairly limited due to the restrictions around how they can be shot. There cannot be much discussion around the terminal effects of headshots, if the brain is destroyed, the animal is destroyed. I would love to get some roo tags for the purposes of meat collection. As yet I still need to acquire an "R" License so I can hunt in the areas around Cessnock (and other state forests in NSW) legally. Another point that baffles me is why deer in this country (read NSW) as an introduced species are so protected??? They do as much damage as other introduced pests.

NSW is one of the most (if not the most) regulated states in general, and shooting is not excluded.

I appreciate your comments though about using roadkill for cartridge research. Can't be too careful when anti-gun lobbyists are looking for any excuses to further limit shooters. And yes, there was never any doubt that the roo carcasses I found were shot by people who couldn't give a rats arse about animals and their welfare let alone other shooter that may be penalised for the actions of a few idiots.
11 Jun 2017
@ 11:37 pm (GMT)

mark whiteley

Re: Cartridge Research
no worries Andrew
I think even though we know about restrictions we need to not put out a bad message that others who don't understand our laws would think,
just so you know when culling roo's my crew are not aloud to take any meat, the roo's are weighed as they are culled and the trailer is weighed when they are dumped and buried, figure's must match
and the reason that deer are not called a pest is because of the Australian deer association, the greens, the dplwe, the government call them a pest
if we get them called a pest though they will be treated like a rabbit and poisoned no different, the deer in the otways victoria have already been aerial poisoned before with 10-80 apparently, we as hunters do not want this
kiwi's can tell you about how there deer are 10-80 poisoned
its not a good thing, we have to be careful what we wish for
regards Mark


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