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Nosler partition

11 Oct 2016
@ 10:37 am (GMT)

[email protected]

Not sure why you or the rest of the gun media support this poor bullet design. It does not penetrate worth a darn I have watched many failures. The front section disappears and then you have a lightweight rear section going slow with no frontal area that stops quickly. How does the performance myth keep going. I have seen six inches of penetration from a 180 grain shot out of a three hundred win mag no bone hit just meat distance of the shot seventy five yards. Watched failure s in 277 diameter and 257 and 243 bullets. In fact I have never seen a one shot kill with these poorly constructed bullets that are way way way over hyped. Chest shots on deer that only hit rib and don't exit nor find the far side lung. Total junk.

Replies

11 Oct 2016
@ 03:14 pm (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: Nosler partition
Welcome catfarm.
What was the MV of the 180 gn in your 300 WM ? What species of animal was it? And where was it hit? The results here are from real life testing and only what's been seen in the flesh and bone! If you don't like them use something else. Like maybe a Woodleigh weld core ? Or possibly make your own projectiles then any performance issues will be your fault and not the Nosler partitions? Have a great day.
11 Oct 2016
@ 05:35 pm (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: Nosler partition
did you stop and ask why it failed? when your car won't start do you stop open the bonnet and have a think about it or do you blame the manufacturer?

one an exit wounds mean the bullet has left with some of its energy rather then transferring it.
two it sounds like your not matching your bullet weight to game very well. run high weight for caliber projectiles then comment.

thank you for your time
11 Oct 2016
@ 08:37 pm (GMT)

Dan Keene

Re: Nosler partition
Damn, that must mean that Jack O'Connors life work was a lie, that Boddington's photos were all photo shopped and that the guy quoted below was also lying.

Quote from other Nosler Partition thread:

Hi Nathan!

Just wanted to report back on my friends trip to Namibia. He went down there with his 308W and 180gr Nosler Partitions. I loaded them to 770m/s. The load was very accurate in is Sako A7 SS, and ES showed +/- 1m/s. Well a couple of days before he took off we talked to a guy who had been to the same place 3 times. He was strongly against my friend using 308W and even worse Nosler Partition. I asked him why and got a shit storm of crap.

My friend who is not a very experienced hunter got a little nervous, so I had to calm him down telling him that his new load would do more damage than just leaving blue spots on the animals... We talked a lot about shot placement and i gave him drawings/photos of an oryx and hartebeast with the vitals on it.‎ We sighted in 6cm high on 100m, and i talked him through the ballistics and even gave him a very simple 0-300m dropchart to study just so he could be familiar/comfortable with his PBR.

The result... He shot 15 animals in 16 shots. Everything but 1 animal dropped in its tracks. The shots was taken from 50 - 220 meters standing with shooting stick. Among the animals was 7 oryx and 1 hartebeast...

When I saw him after he returned, he smiled and said: "I'll go back there any time with my 308W and NPs!!!"

The truth is - the other hunters on that trip had listened to the man I mentioned before and loaded up with heavy for caliber, A-frames, TSX and other very hard bullets ‎. They had to use 3-5 shots/animal...

Nathan - Thanks for your advice- it was a true success!

11 Oct 2016
@ 08:51 pm (GMT)

Fred Dagg

Re: Nosler partition
Hi Guys. Just new to this forum. Funny how things make you think. Catfarm got me thinking. Are we allowed to use the word wanker on the forum?
11 Oct 2016
@ 09:50 pm (GMT)

Tom Dixon

Re: Nosler partition
Lol!
11 Oct 2016
@ 10:40 pm (GMT)

Bryan Webster

Re: Nosler partition
I doubt the failed shots he observed were well placed, or the might have been too light in weight. I dmit to having seen hunters out with guides here in Northern British Columbia lament using them in a 300 Win Mag having the bullet hit big bone on an elk shoulder and asked about weight. Turned out a lot of the time they had loaded 150 Partitions for sheep and used their same loads for an elk. In fact many guides used to get worried when they saw people show up with big magnum rifles anyway.
11 Oct 2016
@ 11:28 pm (GMT)

Martin Taylor

Re: Nosler partition
hahahaha great first post. Mr Dagg has said it!


No bone chest shot that didn't exit at 75 yards with a 180gn, hmmmm, my all concurring 30-06 exited every time with that shot placement and nearly all others on heavy set Sambar deer but its no magnum.
And speaking of, thank my lucky stars l haven't needed to shoot an animal with the ones l have loaded for our 300...........

Nathan you had better send all those photo-shopped autopsy pictures back, SORRY!
12 Oct 2016
@ 01:21 am (GMT)

Fred Dagg

Re: Nosler partition
Thanks Marty.
You are pretty good at that Photoshop shenannigans!
I have done a Hunting Gear Review video on You Tube. Please take a look.
https://youtu.be/5tAWwqKNI7g
Cheers, Fred
12 Oct 2016
@ 03:22 am (GMT)

Stewart Hardy

Re: Nosler partition
Nosler partitions are my preferred bullet for the 6.5 x 55 as recommended by Nathan. They are brilliant, sure they don't have the great BC of modern bullets but animals drop when shot and don't get up. Have no wish to change, although if Nosler made a modern version with better BC may give them a go.
12 Oct 2016
@ 04:42 am (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Nosler partition
Will pass on this one sorry guys.
12 Oct 2016
@ 06:15 am (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: Nosler partition
Yeah gooday Fred
Quote:
Hi Guys. Just new to this forum. Funny how things make you think. Catfarm got me thinking. Are we allowed to use the word wanker on the forum?

bloody good on ya Trev
12 Oct 2016
@ 08:02 am (GMT)

Mike Davis

Re: Nosler partition
Fred Dagg....good on ya trev!!!!! but in answer to your question the prefered terms are
habitual masterbater or owner operator
as to O.P. where in the world did you find 6" of meat to penertrate on an animal???? which is your statement of failure in 300 mag

Ive seen a really really piss poor shot on a big red deer travel through rear hoch then unzip belly before entering chest and pulping that then doing number on front end on way out...yip deer carried on for all of 50 yards but was dead on its feet....that was poor placement not bullet preformance issue the projectile did a stellar job. cat farm aye???? wonder if Garath Morgan is your neighbour...he has good thoughts about cats.
suggest you try trolling elsewhere.
13 Oct 2016
@ 08:21 am (GMT)

phil hann

Re: Nosler partition
Greetings Gentlemen, I usually limit my involvement here to reading/rereading Nathan's books , enjoying the Forum and lurking about looking for a handy deer. However its windy tonight so,I cant help passing on an experience from back in the day. Its a bit drawn out but if it adds a perspective can't be all bad.
This was the 80's,and like every other punter I was spending far too much family time finding and selling venison.
Last light, big red stag broadside at 150ish yards. Had been using 308 150 NP(quite a loud bang but unknown speed) for some time and enjoyed enough success to be very confident in the shot. The animal dropped as planned-- poleaxed. The light was even poorer when at 3 meters I discovered he was down but very much alive. We both got a huge fright as he launched, 500D like, from under my feet. Gone. Luckily for me ,and the animal's suffering, it was a calm night and 5 mins of listening gave me indications of distress 100 meters in the thick stuff.
It was then very dark in the bush as I sidled up to his very large white hindquarters --standing. This was proving to be outside of the planned operating procedure,and somewhat awkward to avoid an expensive Texas heart shot. He lurched sideways after a couple of minutes and I gave him another one at 1 meter from the rear quartering through the diaphragm into the chest. He accelerated away again, he only got 10 meters but was struggling to his feet as I shot him in the neck. This had proven to be not my finest hour of the hunting art. Other details I remember include, all wounds in the front end where intended,he was 104 kg neck off and it hurt carrying him out of the gully.
Now, I'd be no authority on Nosler Partition , but I will say on that small data base I cannot bring myself to use them. Mind you , I've failed other projectiles as well, so beware making a choice from my experience... Cheers Phil
20 Oct 2016
@ 10:41 pm (GMT)

Hamish Gibbs

Re: Nosler partition
Hi Phil thanks for sharing, think the theme here is people missing the point about matching bullet/game weight, one of my main take home points from Nathans research(don't know how he keeps his hair) you say 104kg neck off? Maybe go back to Nathans research on handloading 150 np for 308 and do some re reading. Not trying to be rude mate, just saying, maybe should not write off a projectile when trying to use for otherwise intended purposes?
21 Oct 2016
@ 12:34 am (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Nosler partition
OK, I'll bite this time.

1980's. First off, some kiwis did not know the difference between the Nosler Solid Base and Partition. The Solid Base was common, the Partition rare. Few people could afford it. If someone else loaded this ammo Phil, you have to be wary of this.

Popular powder of the day was W748. Typical velocity 2750fps. Impact velocity around 2400fps.

Animal drops immediately = shot was either just below or above the spine. There is no hydrostatic shock with this load beyond 75 yards, plus this was a big animal. Assume bullet or frontal core fragments were very close to the spine. Result, loss of conciousness. Also assume the shot went under, not over, otherwise you would have noticed as a high shot.

Animal regains consciousness, becomes fully adrenalised, basal brain takes over, changes blood distribution etc. Second shot has little effect. Would have been a clean kill but animal in shock causes a delay. Third shot hits CNS.

OK, lets look at the bullet. The SD is low. If it hits major round bone, this can cause the Partition to tumble, exposing the rear core which may then shred and arrest, But still, performance would be identical to the then popular Win Silvertip (fully frangible). I do not believe this load suffered arrested penetration. If it had hit the center shoulder, the animal would have taken just a few steps- unless the bullet struck the autonomic plexus, though if it had, it would not be able to regain consciousness. A heart shot would have caused a long dead run. Poleax at low impact velocity means the shot was near the spine, striking a high rib.

Could it have penciled through? No, not really, the front section is identical to the Interlock and Gameking, Federal Hi-shok and Core-Lokt. All are about the same jacket thickness at the ogive. It is slightly less 'explosive' than the Power Point and less so again that the SilverTip.

From what you have told me, I believe that at 2400fps, the load had limited energy potential versus the size of the animal. Experience leads me to believe that the shot was in no mans land but hit a rib close to the spine. The wound was between .75" and 1.5" in diameter based on impact velocity and game size / weight resistance. This wound was small relative to the size of the animal. The irony is, a fully fragmenting bullet would have performed better with the no mans land shot, even if not well suited to this body weight. As a further irony, this is why manufacturers of the day produced 'soft' bullets, regardless of what hunters thought they wanted. These days, manufacturers give hunters what they want and leave hunters to make up their own fantasies.

There is no easy answer to this. One person might say "well you can't blame the bullet for that shot". From my own perspective, we do need bullets that perform well with room for error. But if we use a light and very fast expanding / wide wounding bullet on an animal of this size, we run the risk of shallow penetration if the bullet hits heavy bone. The 180 grain Power Point was and is a good bullet, but it sheds velocity very quickly and few people liked using this across gullies etc, hence why the 150 grain was so popular.

Anyway, I hope that helps offer a 'why' Phil. Whenever we witness a slow kill, it can be very helpful to investigate why. I know this can be hard to do in the bush at night, but it can be worthwhile.

21 Oct 2016
@ 07:08 am (GMT)

Hamish Gibbs

Re: Nosler partition
Hey that's what I was just about to say! Yeah right! Wow, awsome, informative thankyou for biting Nathan! Read it 15 times and you start thinking csi Taranaki episode 1. After you dismissed billy goat gruffs arch enemy I thought Phil was worth giving something objective to think about as i believe we all are at times. Sitting back in my armchair now happily eating humble pie.
I have some questions regarding a custom 300wsm rem 700sa optimised for 208 amax(my dream rifle came available so begged stole borrowed) best to email or phone? I would like to pay for your brain as such regarding load development, would just look at standard stuff but long coal for this round.
21 Oct 2016
@ 08:01 pm (GMT)

phil hann

Re: Nosler partition
Greetings Hamish/Nathan, thank you both for responding to an old recollection. I believe you are both correct,illustrating that a careful thinking through sheds more light than growing a 30 year prejudice on flawed data!
Nathan your reconstruction of the circumstances were outstandingly accurate.
Yes, I had been using Silvertips and W748, read somewhere about Nosler Partitions's, worked up a load ,48grains ,I think, and ventured forth invincible. A little knowledge being dangerous.
Cheers men for the gentle reminder to reread Nathan's books...
21 Oct 2016
@ 08:19 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Nosler partition
No worries, am glad I was able to offer some insight.

Hamish, depends on what you need. The phone allows more room for discussion if you need this. My inbox has been full these last weeks as U.S hunters tool up for the fall. I am having a very hard time keeping up with mail tech questions at the moment, so answers are short and to the point (and often late).
18 Nov 2016
@ 05:01 pm (GMT)

Shawn Bevins

Re: Nosler partition
You have experienced just the opposite of what I have. We (3 of us) use Nosler partitions exclusively in the Northeast US for whitetails and black. bear. I have yet to recover a bullet from a 257 Roberts, a 7mm-08 and a 270. Still waiting to draw blood with a 264 mag Partition. Shots range from 25 yds to 250 yds. Have yet to see something here I wouldn't kill with them.

If you have the bullets since you didn't get a pass through please show some pictures. I'm interested in seeing what you call bullet failure.

[b]
08 Dec 2016
@ 09:00 pm (GMT)

Greg Palman

Re: Nosler partition
I think the partition bullet is fantastic for big game like moose up to 800-1000lb, that's been my experience on two moose hunts.

For light deer I think the Hornady SST or Nosler 150-165 ballistic tip is better.
11 Dec 2016
@ 10:20 pm (GMT)

Kevin Cody

Re: Nosler partition
Hi friend, in response to your post about no penetration, I had very successful kills using the nosler partition with .270 150 grain and 30:06 180 grain federal bullets. I think bullet placement is the key to getting good penetration and a successful kill. I have used this round on making short distance and long distances shots and it has yet to let me down. This bullet does not split during penetration but delivers a deeper performance and penetration after impact. I think your problem could be the caliber of bullets that you are using?
 

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