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Forum Index > Rifles general discussion > carbon fiber stocks

carbon fiber stocks

14 Sep 2016
@ 02:37 am (GMT)

Brendon Greig

last year I made a walnut stock for my 243 that fitted me and had a pistol grip shaped with a palm swell and nice for end how I liked, I then pillar bedding it with match grade bedding this has worked well for me as I am not a standard shape due to my trade and injuries i have had through out my life
It has always been my plan to get a larger caliber in time leaning towards 7mm rem mag and as much as I like the walnut stock the modern synthetic stocks are much more weather resistant particularly here in New Zealand where you can have four seasons in one day
so I am wondering how the carbon fiber stocks react under recoil and how they are made to absorb the shock and harmonics associated with firing or do they simply rely on good recoil pads
Thanks in advance for any comments and advice on this
Cheers Brendon

Replies

14 Sep 2016
@ 08:57 am (GMT)

Aussie hunter

Re: carbon fiber stocks
I'm no expert but I've often said cheap plastic or composite stocks are cheap. They don't feel right either. They can be improved I believe with Nathan's stock stabiliser and bedding kits. I am considering this on a Ramline stock that is on my .300 win mag.
Other than that I can answer the question directly but I imagine a quality material would be OK.
14 Sep 2016
@ 09:06 am (GMT)

Brendon Greig

Re: carbon fiber stocks
Carbon fiber seems to be the new go to product but it is very rigid and from what I understand would not absorb the shock but transfer it this also makes me wonder what these stock will be like in years to come just looking for people's thoughts
14 Sep 2016
@ 09:06 am (GMT)

Brendon Greig

Re: carbon fiber stocks
Carbon fiber seems to be the new go to product but it is very rigid and from what I understand would not absorb the shock but transfer it this also makes me wonder what these stock will be like in years to come just looking for people's thoughts
14 Sep 2016
@ 02:31 pm (GMT)

Bryan Webster

Re: carbon fiber stocks
Most of the issue is the shape of the stock as Nathan has explained in his books. Other than that, and very important is improving your shooting technique from various positions.

The carbon Fiber stocks from makers like McMillan and Manners as well as some NZ firms, if you choose the correct shape, are flawless in this regard. Other things you can do (especially in NZ is to add a suppressor. Here many have a good gunsmith thread the barrel and install a a high quality muzzle brake.
14 Sep 2016
@ 06:48 pm (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: carbon fiber stocks
hi Brendon
i no expert on carbon fiber but ill share my opinion.
there's two ways we can look at it, there's what seems to be the modern kiwi way we can make a stock even lighter so some soft [email protected]#k doesn't hurt his widdle arms while carrying his heavy tikka rifle around for 3 hours.
or we can have a very solid highly rigid stock for similar weight of a normal stock.

you'll see it time and time again from some manufactures trying to advertise how light there stocks are or people asking how light they are.
carbon fiber is light but from my understanding to have the strength it needs plenty of layers laid at the different angles.

if we were to make a carbon fiber we could have things like a solid barrel channel not a skeleton style like on plastic stocks.we could have a nice wide forend. we could have a solid action area with no need for foam or any other filler and after all of that we should still hopefully have a manageable weight rifle.

i believe at least one forum member has or is playing around with making carbon fiber stocks, i might be on the wrong track and they might want to share there expertise.

for recoil design is the most important factor, but if you really need low recoil a suppressor is a good option



14 Sep 2016
@ 10:31 pm (GMT)

Chris Murphy

Re: carbon fiber stocks
Carbon fibre will recoil the same as wood if they were same shape and weight. The benefits of CF is its weight and rigidity. So you can have a light strong stiff stock. Stock shape has a big effect on felt recoil and weight on actual recoil
15 Sep 2016
@ 04:28 am (GMT)

Clive Judd

Re: carbon fiber stocks
Hey guys, im a director of a start up company called precision platforms, we are in the process of developing rifle stocks, currently finalizing a long range hunting stock where by we are using laminate to prototype the shape then we will be moving to carbon later this year.
Firstly, im a soldier, not a carbon fibre expert...which has meant that in conjunction with our own RnD we've had to develop our knowledge through talking with experts/professionals and then transfer that to what we do. I will try to cast as much light on this as possible (pertaining to the question on the forum), also try to keep it compressed and simple, however there is a lot going on in this discussion already, and im not one to do things in halves.

Some facts first

- Felt recoil
As stated, felt recoil wont be discernible from a wood stock to a composite of the same weight and geometric design.

- Affects of recoil - Material longevity
This comes down to material selection and how it handles the force's involved, for example if using wood, the difference between walnut and balsa, you would have to do things to the balsa to make it perform as well as the walnut or be as long serving. This is no different with composites....but....
- Not all composite stocks are the same
There are a multitude of ways to construct a composite stock, and there are trade offs for every method both at the shooters end and at the manufacture's end.

Why

Why composites
Composite construction (more than one material of different characteristics) enable's flexibility in engineering and design, or what I like to say 'what you need where you need it' however this comes back to 'not all are the same', as different companies have different core values(people) thus difference's embodied in there product offering and if poorly executed is not a sure fire way of obtaining the desired results e.g if a company has invested into tooling (molds) but the stock (model) is poorly designed in shape, then (depending on the companies' core values) they may continue to sell that stock to the public to recoup investment....perhaps use 'light weight' as the sales pitch or whatever...this is where shooters should be critical in order to make the most of the purchase.

Why carbon fibre
There are many materials to use in composites(or combinations), such as Basalt, innegra, glass and Kevlar to name a few for the shell material, but carbon fibre offers all of the most desirable qualities that one would want in a stock(shell) considering how its to be used, however with carbon aspects to consider are galvanic corrosion and electrical conductivity that doesn't occur with the previously mentioned materials.

Advice on stock selection
If going to purchase a stock I would suggest asking these question:
- does it fit me?
- does it suit my application?
- is it constructed to last or does it come with a lifetime warranty?

If weight is the main issue/focus, then you may end up compromising on the above three (depending on who you buy off), but that's the nature of compromise, however composite stocks can be made light and ergonomic whilst remaining durable.


Our philosophy
We consider the stock to be an investment item as its the medium by which you interact with the most and what helps to define the shooting experience. The materials used to produce these stocks will last 100's of years, and so for long lasting value we aim to build them right. This means it must be designed for the intended application, it must fit a broad range of users (unless specifically sized), and it must be constructed to last.

We are aiming high to bring premier rifle stocks to the industry come the end of the year. Hope this helps guys and am happy to answer any questions.
15 Sep 2016
@ 04:29 am (GMT)

Clive Judd

Re: carbon fiber stocks
Hey guys, im a director of a start up company called precision platforms, we are in the process of developing rifle stocks, currently finalizing a long range hunting stock where by we are using laminate to prototype the shape then we will be moving to carbon later this year.
Firstly, im a soldier, not a carbon fibre expert...which has meant that in conjunction with our own RnD we've had to develop our knowledge through talking with experts/professionals and then transfer that to what we do. I will try to cast as much light on this as possible (pertaining to the question on the forum), also try to keep it compressed and simple, however there is a lot going on in this discussion already, and im not one to do things in halves.

Some facts first

- Felt recoil
As stated, felt recoil wont be discernible from a wood stock to a composite of the same weight and geometric design.

- Affects of recoil - Material longevity
This comes down to material selection and how it handles the force's involved, for example if using wood, the difference between walnut and balsa, you would have to do things to the balsa to make it perform as well as the walnut or be as long serving. This is no different with composites....but....
- Not all composite stocks are the same
There are a multitude of ways to construct a composite stock, and there are trade offs for every method both at the shooters end and at the manufacture's end.

Why

Why composites
Composite construction (more than one material of different characteristics) enable's flexibility in engineering and design, or what I like to say 'what you need where you need it' however this comes back to 'not all are the same', as different companies have different core values(people) thus difference's embodied in there product offering and if poorly executed is not a sure fire way of obtaining the desired results e.g if a company has invested into tooling (molds) but the stock (model) is poorly designed in shape, then (depending on the companies' core values) they may continue to sell that stock to the public to recoup investment....perhaps use 'light weight' as the sales pitch or whatever...this is where shooters should be critical in order to make the most of the purchase.

Why carbon fibre
There are many materials to use in composites(or combinations), such as Basalt, innegra, glass and Kevlar to name a few for the shell material, but carbon fibre offers all of the most desirable qualities that one would want in a stock(shell) considering how its to be used, however with carbon aspects to consider are galvanic corrosion and electrical conductivity that doesn't occur with the previously mentioned materials.

Advice on stock selection
If going to purchase a stock I would suggest asking these question:
- does it fit me?
- does it suit my application?
- is it constructed to last or does it come with a lifetime warranty?

If weight is the main issue/focus, then you may end up compromising on the above three (depending on who you buy off), but that's the nature of compromise, however composite stocks can be made light and ergonomic whilst remaining durable.


Our philosophy
We consider the stock to be an investment item as its the medium by which you interact with the most and what helps to define the shooting experience. The materials used to produce these stocks will last 100's of years, and so for long lasting value we aim to build them right. This means it must be designed for the intended application, it must fit a broad range of users (unless specifically sized), and it must be constructed to last.

We are aiming high to bring premier rifle stocks to the industry come the end of the year. Hope this helps guys and am happy to answer any questions.
Clive Judd, Precision Platforms.
15 Sep 2016
@ 05:18 am (GMT)

Bryan Webster

Re: carbon fiber stocks
Hello Thomas.

Some time back it was Nathan who was positive on a good carbon fiber stock being NZ made.

It is not only about weight here as one Carbon fiber stock I have is not light. What it is, is stiff and durable and does not change in any kind of weather or temperatures and does nothing different at all when wet. It was machined precisely to fit my action and I had not need to bed it given it shot sub .5 moa from day one with good hand loaded ammo.

I have had many great wood stocks and still have several, but they do not stand up like this newfangled stuff. Ever watched guys on Youtube hunting in NZ in the mountains using their rifle stocks as a walking stick? Hope your wood is as good, I know I would never do that to my wood stocks, Ha, ha, ha! 😉.
15 Sep 2016
@ 06:07 am (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: carbon fiber stocks
thank you Clive really informative.

Hi Bryan yes between our weather and our habits the kiwi stock gets a hard life.
i should of explained things little better teach me to write in a hurry.
i know carbon fiber is good product for making stocks.

there is a lot people doing well designed stocks with carbon fiber, its the design that we need to look at carefully rather then saying carbon fiber stocks are great in general.

i was just looking at one of the nz companies stocks that i won't name but i see they do a very thin stock and have made it in a monte carlo style with a decent drop at the heel, you feel sorry for someone paying almost the price of the rifle for it. ironically its on Nathan's favourite brand of rifle and shows a suppressor on the photo haha
15 Sep 2016
@ 08:15 am (GMT)

Brendon Greig

Re: carbon fiber stocks
Thanks for all the reply's so far I have all of Nathans books which have all been read several times and they were a lot of help to me when I were making my walnut stock I made it straight recoiling with a good for end then bedded it
But now wanting to take that next step and build a rifle for longer range when funds allow so going through the process of building it in my head and looking at the pro's and con's and as much as I like my stock I know there are more stable product available now
Cheers Brendon
 

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