cart SHOPPING CART You have 0 items

Discussion Forums

Search forums

308 FMJ

21 Aug 2016
@ 08:43 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Hi Guys, I spent some time during the weekend test shooting but while we were at it, I took some footage of .308 FMJ wounding, just one kill though. I have knocked up a video but its still private (as in unlisted). I thought you guys might like to watch and comment here. I still don't know if I want to make the video fully public yet.


22 Aug 2016
@ 12:51 am (GMT)

Paul Leverman

Re: 308 FMJ
Tough call. You know you will take flak from the antis about the slow kill. They won't look at it as a research subject. They will see a poor harmless goat, needlessly killed, and quite slowly. Never mind all the valuable info you gathered and passed on.

Personally, I would leave it private, as anyone that is here understands what you are doing and appreciates your efforts. We know you don't just shoot animals just to shoot animals.

My 2 cents.
22 Aug 2016
@ 12:57 am (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: 308 FMJ
Good points. I can still link it to an article so that it can be found by those who want to know.
22 Aug 2016
@ 01:07 am (GMT)

Paul Leverman

Re: 308 FMJ
But....on the other side of the coin: it is very valuable information for all hunters. A good visual lesson on bullet construction vs. velocity and what happens when the bullet impacts.

Now, do you keep this information for the few, or share it with the world even though you know what is going to happen. As hunters, we would appreciate the knowledge and use it to prevent unnecessary wounding and slow kills.

The haters will hate no matter what, and when it comes down to the nitty-gritty, do we really care what they think?
22 Aug 2016
@ 01:12 am (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: 308 FMJ
Hey Nathan. It just proves that everything you have written on here in the Knowledge Base and through out the book series is valid. You knew what was going to happen using FMJ . Good for folks to see it first hand on here. I wouldn't post it. You know how stupid Political Correctness has gotten these days? You need bang flop stuff proving that what you know works is the only way to go forward. Promote the good stuff you don't need to go backwards.
22 Aug 2016
@ 07:30 am (GMT)

Sebastian Shand

Re: 308 FMJ
hi nathan
would it be ok with you if i share this via email to a friend of mine?
it will not go on any social media sites i.e. Facebook etc.
22 Aug 2016
@ 08:40 am (GMT)

Mike Davis

Re: 308 FMJ
righteho asked for opinion
had that shot been placed CORRECTLY eg 4" forward of where it was the outcome would have been vastly different and if honest, we all know it.
a hollow point or spire point that was of "stout construction" to use your terminology would not have done much better.
had it been 2" forward the kill would've been quicker as bleed out would've been relatively fast through double lung hit.
piss poor bullet placement is often what causes rifles/calibres/projectiles to get a bad name, heck Ive heard guys rubbish .270 as projectiles pencil through!!!!!
same time others say they ruin too much meat!!!!
pure shot placement.
if you had shot that same Billy fair square up the arse of better still through the hips angling forwards it would've been piss bowled and gone nowhere as the projectile could've dumped some energy and basically rooted the animal by breaking it up,while still penetrating enough to reach vitals.
the 300aac gets compared to the 7.62x39mm far more than the 30/30
other than a faster twist rate the two cartridges are a hell of a lot different in performance???? or am I missing some magic the blackout has????

totally agree with what you saying that fed good projectiles they all can do much better job.

I haven't shot as many goats as you but at a rough guess 3-400 with .22lr for meat retrieval
60-100 with the .270
same with .30/30
same with the .303 brit with FMJ
and lastly 20ish with the .222 and .223
of them all the .223 suits me best and the .270 the most emphatically

22 Aug 2016
@ 01:38 pm (GMT)

Bryan Webster

Re: 308 FMJ
No need to post it in my opinion either. After all, many jurisdictions (like here in Canada) FMJ are banned for big game hunting for a valid reason and most people here know that. Your concern in this regard is best suited to a direct, short, to the point comment I think.
22 Aug 2016
@ 06:33 pm (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: 308 FMJ
for the sake of protecting yourself from any issues i would not make it public.
imaging if the PC brigade took you to court, could you prove that you knew what you were doing wasn't inhumane i know it was for the greater good to prevent others from doing it but can you imagine arguing that to bunch of vegans and yappies.
as hunters we are under more and more scrutiny so we have to be careful what we show, wither its reality of what happens or not.
22 Aug 2016
@ 07:40 pm (GMT)

Martin Taylor

Re: 308 FMJ
You have blurred many lines with this one mate!

I have hunted many pigs & roo's with 223, 308 & 303 fmj from 10 to 300 yards and do not rate the 223 with that combo to be even close to the others in performance. I am talking averages, miles apart.

Ask any ex serviceman that fort with both cals side by side and they will also comment on the lack of the 223's effectiveness in many situations.

And yes shot placent is king but shit happens, watch the video with the goat I shot with the 168 Amax/308 & similar placement at how many times more range! It didn't run very far.

I don't mind the video but l understand the reasons behind it, others won't![b]
22 Aug 2016
@ 10:15 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: 308 FMJ
When the shot was taken by my companion, the animal was quartering a bit so the goal was to angle it through and hopefully achieve a clean as possible kill with this ammo. I was not expecting this level of delay but have seen it when culling in past years. It was this that started me off on my journey in the first place.

Quite true Mike, a double lung would have been a bit faster though I have seen slow kills with double lung shots too with FMJ. Further forwards again would have been a faster kill, take the shoulder bone and the front of the vitals and automomic plexus. But the shot taken was representative of the typical shot placement we see these days- generally "behind the shoulder". As Marty said, this is what happens. And for the tactical crowd who argue over human targets, there is no shoulder shot.

Had we been using soft point (in the video), the internal wound would have been say 2 to 2.5". So in this regard, the liver and quarter of lung would have been destroyed- a very typical quartering shot. In my 1100 yard Practical vid, the liver shot was very fast killing by comparison. By the same token, had I been using a low powered cartridge (eg 6.5x55 / 7x57 underpowered factory load at 250 yards), the result could have been similar to FMJ. Also low powered homogenous copper loads can perform the same. All of these things lead to projectile design being the key. But having said this, we also need a certain level of velocity.

Yes Marty, it blurrs the lines for you and me both. I have never been a great fan of the .223 but with the new heavy bullets it can achieve a certain level of performance (also as talked about in the cartridges book) that it could not previously achieve. That said, I still prefer more punch, especially on wild pigs as you mentioned. In the video, we did not compare apples with apples. Had I used a 155gr Lapua OTM, results would have been quite different due to low SD versus the fully hollow ogive on this particular bullet. But- had I used a Blackout OTM with an impact of 1800fps, then all bets would be off. If I had been using a .223 OTM, the wound would be large due to resistance met versus bullet weight and velocity. But had we extended the range to say 350 yards, all bets would be off again.
25 Aug 2016
@ 02:27 am (GMT)

Brian Vickerman

Re: 308 FMJ
Keep this to your own site. People that come here to learn will understand it.

What i do like is how you did the video. You gave a great example of a how to video.

I'm new to your site and the knowledge i have gained on just a few articles is fantastic.

In the next few weeks I would like to post my process of bullet selection for the upcoming hunts. Your site had a major impact on my choices.

God bless those who pass on experience.


26 Aug 2016
@ 05:16 am (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: 308 FMJ
Thanks for your input Vick, much appreciated.


We are a small, family run business, based out of Taranaki, New Zealand, who specialize in cartridge research and testing, and rifle accurizing.