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Forum Index > Rifles general discussion > versatile whisper cartridges ideas and thoughts?

versatile whisper cartridges ideas and thoughts?

19 Mar 2016
@ 11:57 pm (GMT)

Sebastian Shand

so i got to thinking the other day (yes, dangerous i know!) how i would like a delisle carbine and then i thought maybe i could do a more versatile version build. my thoughts are maybe in 375cal on a mid sized case like a 308 or x57 etc. so my thought pattern behind this is i mainly want a subsonic hard hitting round using cast projectiles but then if i wanted to it could be loaded up with normal projectiles and full power load for a nice wee compact bush gun. I'm heavily leaning towards 375/308 because from what i can gather it will push a 250grainer at bit over 2000fps but when down loaded to subsonic loads with cast bullets the case capacity should be (i think) full enough to not have ignition problems. also 308 case head should make it easy to find a suitable doner action and brass for africa.
i played around yesterday necking up all types of brass to see how it would look and how they fit in standard magazines and feeding etc trial actions were mausers and the good ol p14 3 hoh 3. now my knowledge in this area is limited so any input is appreciated.


Replies

19 Mar 2016
@ 11:57 pm (GMT)

Sebastian Shand

Re: versatile whisper cartridges ideas and thoughts?

20 Mar 2016
@ 12:00 am (GMT)

Sebastian Shand

Re: versatile whisper cartridges ideas and thoughts?
from left to right

375H&H mag for comparison, x55 case, x57 case, 308 case, 30.30case, and x39case
20 Mar 2016
@ 12:01 am (GMT)

Sebastian Shand

Re: versatile whisper cartridges ideas and thoughts?
also all projectiles pictured are 250grain sierra game king 375cal
20 Mar 2016
@ 12:51 am (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: versatile whisper cartridges ideas and thoughts?
hi Sebastian
we have to be careful with this as we got to stop and think are we running something subsonic for our benefit or for the animals? i understand it can be helpful in built up area's or if you want to be able to practice shooting targets in a lifestyle block situation but when it comes to taking an animals life we have to be humane as possible.

unlike in other situations we can't just increase the velocity to get better performance as we a restricted to the speed of sound 1050fps??
after reading Nathans book we should understand the only option then is to increase caliber diameter to get energy transfer.
i would look at going as big as possible this is where handgun calibers like 45lc/44mag can be helpful.

i have thought about building a similar gun but think i would go 45/70 on a lee enfield action using one of these http://www.lee-enfieldrifles.com/clips.html
a single shot lee enfield 444 marlin is another option.
be interesting project anyway you go.
20 Mar 2016
@ 01:19 am (GMT)

Bob Mavin

Re: versatile whisper cartridges ideas and thoughts?
I have a friend that uses a 45-70 rifle, for subsonic he uses 45 cal pistol cartridges with lead pills, 45 long colt I think.

I've been through the subsonic phase, too much margin for error for me. In residential areas I use my 358 Winchester & 225gn Sierra GK. I still use a 22 Rimfire with ICI subsonic HP rounds for any small game
20 Mar 2016
@ 01:32 am (GMT)

Sebastian Shand

Re: versatile whisper cartridges ideas and thoughts?
Gidday Thomas
Yeah I agree with you on that. I'm not really planning on hunting with subsonic loads it's more for the fun/tinkering factor and if I was to hunt with it itd be possums and rabbits. So then you ask why go so big? So then it can be loaded up to work well as a bush gun. I don't no why I didn't think of the 45/70 tho as that would be a a good option
20 Mar 2016
@ 01:58 am (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: versatile whisper cartridges ideas and thoughts?
12ga (18.53mm) hollow point slugs in a rifled barrel with internally ported over barrel suppressor? Inside 100 yards it's going to do something terminal.!
20 Mar 2016
@ 03:17 am (GMT)

Ben Law

Re: versatile whisper cartridges ideas and thoughts?
marlin 45.70, 405gr cast projectile 13gr trailboss @ 980fps.
just a plinking load for me, very easy to setup, but that might take the fun out of it for u.
20 Mar 2016
@ 03:51 am (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: versatile whisper cartridges ideas and thoughts?
Seb if you own a 30/30 talk to robert walker about some of his soft cast projectiles a bit of trail boss and you'll be away.
im playing around with 215gr cast projectiles over trail boss in my 7.62x39 but i don't have a suppressor so can't get it full silent.
like most people are saying its just bit of fun not for hunting

Warwick have you see that shotgun suppressor that some one has made its got rails that run through it so the wad doesn't get caught in the baffles.



20 Mar 2016
@ 02:13 pm (GMT)

Bryan Webster

Re: versatile whisper cartridges ideas and thoughts?
Or to be easy on yourself, just buy one of the Ruger Guide Guns in 416 Ruger.

http://www.ruger.com/products/guideGun/specSheets/47130.html

Will get the close range job done. Been there and was impressed.
20 Mar 2016
@ 04:27 pm (GMT)

Sebastian Shand

Re: versatile whisper cartridges ideas and thoughts?
unfortunately i don't have a 30.30 at the moment. i only have one suppressed gun and thats my ar15 hence my reasoning for maybe building a cool little suppressed bush gun / subsonic range plinker.

thats the ticket right there bryan, theres no substitute for over kill
21 Mar 2016
@ 04:00 am (GMT)

Bryan Webster

Re: versatile whisper cartridges ideas and thoughts?
Not so bad or overdone either as the load I was using was giving me 2100fps with a 400 grain bullet in a 7.5 pound rifle.

One of our friends uses a lever action 375 Winchester and gets around 2100 fps from its 20 inch barrel using a 220 grain flat-nosed bullet. He hunts whitetail deer at close ranges and takes a black bear a year plus some coastal blacktail with it with no issues.

The shape of the stock on the Win lever actions leaves something to be desired if a person has an aversion to recoil in these light rifles, but I have shot it a bit and found no issue at all using it.

Outfitted with a Lyman rear peep sight it is fast to use as well.

Of course, the more I read your thread here, Bob Mavin's comment about how effective his 358 Winchester keep coming to my mind. Having used a 35 Whelen before, I have an interest in Bob's 358 Win rifle as well, and when some pre-fit barrels become available for the Remington 783, I may make one of those a project...Darn, I should never read these posts, it is going to get me in trouble again, ha ha.
21 Mar 2016
@ 05:30 am (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: versatile whisper cartridges ideas and thoughts?
have you got an action lying around seb?
you could use your ar.
ar 450bushmaster 458 socom. or 35gremlin (35x39)
or 308 action
have a look at the 45 raptor to.
but i think for once you might want to go something simply Sebastian and have a serious look at the 358 win or 35 whelen.
if you want to do cheaper build find a lee enfield as my 35/303 reamer will be at trueflite at some stage soon just let me do some testing first.
21 Mar 2016
@ 05:36 am (GMT)

Bob Mavin

Re: versatile whisper cartridges ideas and thoughts?
Hi Brian
My mate uses a 358 Norma mag, I've used a 35 whelen, but for normal hunting out to 300m my little 358 does it easily without hurting me.

Over the last 6mths I've rekindled my love of the 30-06, it's my go to gun out to 600m.

I use a pair of the older Bushnell 1600 range finding binos. last trip I played with the MOA hold over settings in the range finder, hold over for 168 A-Max in my 30-06 are perfect, I've tested them out 640m. Just range the target read the hold over. Spot on, just need to read the wind.

Bob
21 Mar 2016
@ 02:50 pm (GMT)

Bryan Webster

Re: versatile whisper cartridges ideas and thoughts?
I am with you on the 30/06 Bob, as I used to shoot and hunt with a Pre=64 Model 70 Winchester in 30/06 for years. Back then we never had to reach out far as game was a whole lot more readily found in close. Anyway it was a shooter. I mostly use the 7mm Rem Mag for moose and elk now and have been using the .308 Win and 7mm Mauser more for the likes of mule and whitetail deer as well as for the grand kids to use when they tag along.

Have found a new area to hunt where everything is close, and several really exceptional critters hanging there, hence the interest in the .358 Winchester.
I will go with a 24 inch shorter weight barrel to extend the all around usefulness, and because I prefer that length.

A company called Pacnor makes the Rem 783 barrels in 358 Win so after I deal out the tax money for 2015 I plan to do something about this urge.
21 Mar 2016
@ 02:53 pm (GMT)

Bryan Webster

Re: versatile whisper cartridges ideas and thoughts?
24 inch shorter weight barrel should read SPORTER weight barrel. Darned spelling and grammar checker in this system!
21 Mar 2016
@ 07:49 pm (GMT)

Bob Mavin

Re: versatile whisper cartridges ideas and thoughts?
Ha ha I often have the same problem texting.

My 358W has a stout 22" #4 Maddco stainless barrel.

I neck up Lapua 308 palmer cases they have a small rifle primer, tough as. I have two loads with 225gn Woodleigh PP & 225gn Sierra game kings, 2420fps & 2620fps using ADI 2206H powder. I haven't ruined a case yet, some would have been loaded at least 10 times.
21 Mar 2016
@ 08:38 pm (GMT)

Bryan Webster

Re: versatile whisper cartridges ideas and thoughts?
Thank you for the data Bob. I am surprised you are using the Lapua Palma brass. I have been thinking of buying some for my .308.

Have you noted better accuracy/consistency from them, and also have you annealed the cases yet, or just do not require to do so?

Sorry Sebastion about hijacking this thread!
21 Mar 2016
@ 09:06 pm (GMT)

Bob Mavin

Re: versatile whisper cartridges ideas and thoughts?
My gumsmith put me onto them from the beginning. I haven't had to anneal them. I get around 10fps variation over 5 shots, and one hole groups at 100m if I do my part.

I originally started using them to make 30x47 lapua cases, that's the 6.5x47 Lapua caliber necked up to 30 cal.
21 Mar 2016
@ 11:23 pm (GMT)

Sebastian Shand

Re: versatile whisper cartridges ideas and thoughts?
no worries at all Bryan this is all great info.


i think your right thomas simple is best. at this stage I'm just throwing ideas around as i have so many projects on the go at the moment it will probably be next century before i can look at this project haha.

i was at my local gun shop yesterday and out of interest i asked Neil if by some remote chance he has had any bolt action 45-70 thru the door and i bullshit you not someone had traded in the day before a single shot 45-70 husqvarna bolt action with a octagon barrel. unfourntaly it is far to nice to be chopping it up and suppressing it so itll have to stay there for now.
21 Mar 2016
@ 11:26 pm (GMT)

Sebastian Shand

Re: versatile whisper cartridges ideas and thoughts?


looked similar to this
 

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