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> Long(er) range Coyote cartridge / rifle?
Long(er) range Coyote cartridge / rifle?
@ 07:37 am (GMT) |
Daniel SchindlerGreetings.My friend & I want are planning a Coyote hunt in JAN / FEB 2024. Distances out to 800 yards. We both have very accurate Tikka .243 Win. Mine is consistently putting five Factory 70 gr Nosler varmint bullets under .5 moa @ 100 yds. Considering moving up to a 80+ gr bullet for this hunt. Should we stay with our .243’s or change rifles / cartridge / bullets? Our other rifles: 7mm Rem mag - 30-06 - .308 Win. All thoughts / recommendations welcomed. Thank you. Dan |
Replies
@ 01:04 am (GMT) |
David LandwehrRe: Long(er) range Coyote cartridge / rifle?Hi Dan,I love my Tikka's and I've shot coke cans at 600 yards with regular monotony in mine in 223 with 75gr pills and absolutely no wind. You'll have no issue dialling for elevtation but for my mind the tikka twist is too slow for heavy for calibre 6mm bullets. If you're wanting to poke out to 800 I think you need the heavies for a better bc to carry the velocity you'll need for expansion and to better buck the wind. A 6mm with 8 twist or you're 7RM would probably be a better choice, as long as the RM twist is sufficient for heavies and that it is accurate. A good goal you are chasing, will love to hear of your results. |
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@ 11:33 am (GMT) |
Daniel SchindlerRe: Long(er) range Coyote cartridge / rifle?Thank you David, for your informative and encouraging update. Still learning how to dial so hold overs will have to do for now. The scope has hashmarks. Will be testing those marks to see which mark works - out to where. Best I can do at the moment.Reading your report, the .243 gets my vote and will recommend the same to my friend. 87 gr V Max works in my Tikka and seems to get good reports for stretching things out to reasonably long distances. Not a true "heavy" but hoping it will be accurate out to distance. If not, will look at a Nosler BT in the same weight range. Thank you again for responding. Cheers. Dan |
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@ 12:33 am (GMT) |
David LandwehrRe: Long(er) range Coyote cartridge / rifle?Hi Dan,I've just plugged some numbers into hornadys ballisric calculator. Launching an 87gr V Max at 3150 fps you hit 1800 fps (the first wall) at around 625 yards and 1600fps (the second wall and requires exceptional shooters with lots of practice to be accurate ) at 750 yards. The bullet according to hornady will still expand at this velocity but a 2mph error in wind read is 10" at this distance. In a 10 mph wind you're talking more than 50" of drift. A 108 eldm launched at 2950fps is still doing 1950 fps at 625 yards with a 5" error in wind drift with a 2mph error in your estimate or a 25" total drift in a 10mph wind. It hits 1800 fps at around 725 yards and 1600 fps at 900 yards with an extra 12" wind drift with a 2mph error in wind estimate. This is why the heavies are important. If you're shooting much past 600 yards you need the heavies in most calibres. Grab Nathan's book, they explain how to build a dial up chart. |
@ 01:25 pm (GMT) |
David LenziRe: Long(er) range Coyote cartridge / rifle?The .243 Win is a magnum in disguise based on the MV you can extract from it. The .243 AI is more so - if only slightly. I didn't see your twist rate, so I'm not sure what your rifle can handle (I know Tikka and .243 Win generally can be on the slow side).Twist rate aside, if the preponderance of my shots were going to be beyond point blank range, say past 300 yds, I'd absolutely be going heavier. I'd go right up to 105-109 grain options if my rifle could shoot them. If you're going to hold or dial for drop regardless, you might as well take the higher retained velocity and better wind drift from the higher BC options. The 95 TMK might be a somewhat lighter option to consider (1:9 vs. 1:8 for the 105-109s). In that sense, I fully agree with David - you can't add enough muzzle velocity to beat aerodynamics past 600 yds or so, and if the target is smaller enough the wind drift up close might be a compelling argument as well. |
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@ 01:26 pm (GMT) |
Daniel SchindlerRe: Long(er) range Coyote cartridge / rifle?David...thank you for the data. Much appreciated.I spoke with the landowner on our upcoming hunt. He's not sure but believes 500 yards would be the longest shot opportunity available. Which is fine. At the moment, anything over 450 yards is a long attempt for me - accuracy and a clean kill being the priority. My .308 will be getting deer and hog duty - the .243 for coyotes. Presently working on load development for each rifle - the .308 pretty much ready with the 168 gr TMK. Take good care David. Best, Dan |
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@ 10:45 am (GMT) |
Daniel SchindlerRe: Long(er) range Coyote cartridge / rifle UPDATESEPT 11 - '23 UPDATEGreetings gentlemen, Somewhat embarrassed to share this - I just found out our Tikka's are 1:8 twists. The 87 gr V Max gave OK but somewhat disappointing accuracy with long range being the goal. The 85 gr Blitz @ 3,180 shot under .3 moa today @ 100 yards. It will go with me in 10 days. Another coyote hunt is being planned for early 2024 - longer distances expected. With our 1:8 - thinking about a heavier bullet - 95 gr TMK or 90/95 gr Berger? Will update on this deer / hog hunt when we return. Sure do have a lot of confidence in the 168gr TMK in my .308. I realized too late my post on this should have gone in the LR Hunting section. Sorry Nathan. Cheers, Dan |
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@ 11:15 am (GMT) |
David LenziRe: Long(er) range Coyote cartridge / rifle?Dan,In some ways, I feel that's fantastic news - very well sutied for long(er) range work and heavier bullets. Of course, if you've traditionally used ~60 grain pills for more traditional varmint hunting, you're not likely to be pleased! Sounds like the 85 Blitz is hammering for you and the 168 TMK is fantastic. Looking forward to hearing the results of your outings. As to the long range yotes, I'd take the Sierra TMK over the Berger. Cross referencing Nathan's thoughts on Bergers with several other sources, the Hybrid Target line seems to be serviceable, but I have no experience with the lighter 90/95 grain weights. Shoot straight, stay safe, Dave |
@ 12:34 pm (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Long(er) range Coyote cartridge / rifle?Hi Dan. Don’t forget to verify the repeatability of a .3 MOA group.https://youtu.be/Z0RC17Dbtws?si=mGP8GkCQIc8PG1J6 |
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@ 01:52 am (GMT) |
David LandwehrRe: Long(er) range Coyote cartridge / rifle?Dan, how did you determine its an 8 twist. This is contrary to our brouchres but there is always the possibility or is that probability that different countries have different specs.Anyway, keen to hear of your hunt and how the 6mm evolves. Goodluck. Davo |
@ 05:20 am (GMT) |
Tim LuteRe: Long(er) range Coyote cartridge / rifle?I have shot quite a few coyotes in my day and have never needed to shoot more than 340 yds. I would work on calling technique. |
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@ 07:20 am (GMT) |
Daniel SchindlerRe: Long(er) range Coyote cartridge / rifle?Scott, David & Tim,Thank you for your replies. Just got home - trying to catch up on work. As Nathan said it would - my .308 with the 168 TMK put a nice deer in the cooler - DRT. < Never took a step. Thank you Nathan. Unfortunately weather temps rose well over the average and the animals sat it out during daylight hrs. On my Tikka .243: Yes it "was" an 8 twist. The only way I could confirm that was the label on the end of the factory box hinted at that twist with the numbers "243/8." Nothing more. Disappointed in the rifle's accuracy with a lot of work and my lighter bullets - 75 and 80 gr - I traded it on a Savage "Classic" .243. Using the 75 gr V Max handload, the Classic put 5 into the same hole @ 100 yards. It went with me on our trip. Calling proved unsuccessful. Next time I'll contact you first Tim. I agree with your advice. Thank you to each of you in this thread. Cheers. Dan |
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@ 07:20 am (GMT) |
Daniel SchindlerRe: Long(er) range Coyote cartridge / rifle?Scott, David & Tim,Thank you for your replies. Just got home - trying to catch up on work. As Nathan said it would - my .308 with the 168 TMK put a nice deer in the cooler - DRT. < Never took a step. Thank you Nathan. Unfortunately weather temps rose well over the average and the animals sat it out during daylight hrs. On my Tikka .243: Yes it "was" an 8 twist. The only way I could confirm that was the label on the end of the factory box hinted at that twist with the numbers "243/8." Nothing more. Disappointed in the rifle's accuracy with a lot of work and my lighter bullets - 75 and 80 gr - I traded it on a Savage "Classic" .243. Using the 75 gr V Max handload, the Classic put 5 into the same hole @ 100 yards. It went with me on our trip. Calling proved unsuccessful. Next time I'll contact you first Tim. I agree with your advice. Thank you to each of you in this thread. Cheers. Dan |
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@ 07:20 am (GMT) |
Daniel SchindlerRe: Long(er) range Coyote cartridge / rifle?Scott, David & Tim,Thank you for your replies. Just got home - trying to catch up on work. As Nathan said it would - my .308 with the 168 TMK put a nice deer in the cooler - DRT. < Never took a step. Thank you Nathan. Unfortunately weather temps rose well over the average and the animals sat it out during daylight hrs. On my Tikka .243: Yes it "was" an 8 twist. The only way I could confirm that was the label on the end of the factory box hinted at that twist with the numbers "243/8." Nothing more. Disappointed in the rifle's accuracy with a lot of work and my lighter bullets - 75 and 80 gr - I traded it on a Savage "Classic" .243. Using the 75 gr V Max handload, the Classic put 5 into the same hole @ 100 yards. It went with me on our trip. Calling proved unsuccessful. Next time I'll contact you first Tim. I agree with your advice. Thank you to each of you in this thread. Cheers. Dan |
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@ 07:20 am (GMT) |
Daniel SchindlerRe: Long(er) range Coyote cartridge / rifle?Scott, David & Tim,Thank you for your replies. Just got home - trying to catch up on work. As Nathan said it would - my .308 with the 168 TMK put a nice deer in the cooler - DRT. < Never took a step. Thank you Nathan. Unfortunately weather temps rose well over the average and the animals sat it out during daylight hrs. On my Tikka .243: Yes it "was" an 8 twist. The only way I could confirm that was the label on the end of the factory box hinted at that twist with the numbers "243/8." Nothing more. Disappointed in the rifle's accuracy with a lot of work and my lighter bullets - 75 and 80 gr - I traded it on a Savage "Classic" .243. Using the 75 gr V Max handload, the Classic put 5 into the same hole @ 100 yards. It went with me on our trip. Calling proved unsuccessful. Next time I'll contact you first Tim. I agree with your advice. Thank you to each of you in this thread. Cheers. Dan |
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@ 11:51 am (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Long(er) range Coyote cartridge / rifle?Congratulations Dan. And thanks for the anecdotal evidence of faster than normal twist being detrimental to accuracy with lighter bullets. |
@ 06:19 am (GMT) |
Joseph ParkerRe: Long(er) range Coyote cartridge / rifle?First of all congratulations on discovering and pursuing solid advice found in Nathans books and this forum. The advice on bullets and caliber selection you’ve received so far is spot on. As far as coyotes go I live in Arizona and hunt them often I’ve taken nearly 40 this year already. I tend to use them as practice for my other hunts, deer, elk, bear etc… My dad always used the same 270 rifle on coyotes that he used on other big game animals. In Arizona hunters are always complaining about lack of hunting opportunities. 1 deer, 1 elk (if your lucky)… per year. However coyotes are year round and limitless and we can all use the practice. There is no better way to get better at hunting than hunting! Paper is important but its just the beginning. Plus when starting out you don’t want to complicate things with multiple rifles, calibers and scopes. Master one then move on. UNLESS this is simply justification to a spouse or yourself to purchase and build another rifle then scratch what I said and by all means build another one absolutely a must for coyotes!You also mentioned you are still getting used to dialing. Dialing can be tough with coyotes. I use a Horus type holdover reticle that is simply laid out in MILS or MOA. So the math is the same as dialing. So if and when they move you simply move up or down on the reticle while continuing to holding that Forearm! Avoid holdover reticles that are “caliber” specific, especially at extended ranges. Even if you test them to see where they are calibrated, elevation, load changes… all kinds of problems effect the math. All the best! |
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@ 05:05 am (GMT) |
Daniel SchindlerRe: Long(er) range Coyote cartridge / rifle?Scott & Joseph,Thanks for taking the time to reply. As always, good folks like yourselves with sound advice are common here and much appreciated. Joseph, without revealing your secret best places to hunt coyotes, can you share one or more general loctations in the State you would recommend. Rodney and I will give very serious attention to your recommendations. Hope this finds you both well and in good spirits. Cheers. Dan |
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