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> Remington 222 Project, second guessing OCW results
Remington 222 Project, second guessing OCW results
@ 08:58 pm (GMT) |
VinceHi everyone,Having bought a second hand Remington .222 as a project rifle a couple of years ago, I have finally got around to bedding it. Initial testing (pre bedding) produced results in the 1.5 - 2.2 inch range at 100 yards with factory ammo and generic reloads. Given it is a low recoiling rifle and my intention to restock it with a nice piece of walnut I just went with 2 point bedding and floating the barrel, I haven't worried about pillars, the idea being to see if the barrel was good enough or not. The rifle is a 700 BDL Custom Deluxe manufactured in 1990, 24 inch barrel with a 1-14 twist Test groups are with CCI BR4 primers, Hogdon H335 powder, Lapua Brass and Hornady 40gr Z-Max projectiles. 
My gut feeling is that the 23.7 gr group doesn't make sense, could have been a reloading screw up and I should re-test this powder charge as it is in the middle of an otherwise consistent POI series. Any insights welcome, I am still a bit of a novice at reading patterns in OCW's and there is another smaller pattern at the top end of charge weights. For the record, I was happy with all of the shots, didn't feel that I had pulled anything significantly - the joys of shooting a triple deuce Cheers Vince |
Replies
@ 01:29 am (GMT) |
David LandwehrRe: Remington 222 Project, second guessing OCW resultsVince, my understanding is OCW should be shot at a much further range than 100 yards, probably at distances you won't be using the tripple duce at. They are also shot at the same point of aim, 1 shot of each charge weight at each target, closely recording where each charge weight hits.I also belive 23.7 is correct, its basically a repeat of 24.3. The rifle doesn't like these loads. I'd just be shooting groups at 100 like you have done and choose the tightest groups. I'd retest 23.3 and 24 and see if you can repeat those results. Maybe try 0.1gr either side and or play with seating depth a little. But happy days, looks like you have a shooter. |
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@ 08:46 pm (GMT) |
VinceRe: Remington 222 Project, second guessing OCW resultsHi David,Thankyou for the feedback, I think from your response you are talking about a ladder test which has the same end game but uses single round charge weights, usually at at least 200 yards. I prefer the OCW because you have 3 rounds per charge weight at 100 yards to average out which can potentially mitigate shooter (or reloader!) error. The targets above were all shot with the same aiming point by the way, not sure if that was clear in the first post. You are almost certainly right about the 23.7 gr group, I'm just a bit OCD during the testing phase and this didn't fit in the series like I thought it would. I wasn't expecting a good group necessarily, but the variation from 3 oclock to 6 oclock was a bit unexpected, I guess the average was at the expected POI at least. I will do as you suggest and re-test a couple of the better groups near consistent POI both with standard seating depths and out a bit, hopefully end up with one ragged hole somewhere along the way. I'll also probably re-test the 23.7 gr load just to prove you right! Cheers Vince |
@ 07:15 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Remington 222 Project, second guessing OCW resultsHi Vince, it is always hard to offer advice by forum post without the rifle in hand. I have no doubt just screwed up Matt's day in another post because I did not pay close enough attention earlier.Old barrels are easy to misread. If the barrel is old but blued, it may have suffered light rusting at any point. The rust might have been polished away, leaving the bore looking shiny but flawed. On the other hand, if the bore was cared for (or stainless) and if it was never used, there is a chance that it has never really been properly broken in. It can take quite some time to break in a .224" bore as these are so hard to lap (both barrel maker and end user). It wouldn't surprise me if yours has the latter issue because the groups open up after 12 shots, not uncommon for an unused Rem. But that's just a guess. Best to just keep at it and see how you get on, all the while focusing on ammo concentricity. |
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@ 08:20 pm (GMT) |
VinceRe: Remington 222 Project, second guessing OCW resultsThanks NathanI hadn't considered that the barrel hadn't been run in yet but it is certainly a possibility, the rifle was very clean with no marks on the stock or screw burrs, original blueing from what I could tell, the rear sight had been removed and keeper screws installed but the front sight and hood are both still on. If I run the second half of the OCW from high charges to low and get better groups would this be an indicator that the barrel isn't broken in yet? Also have you got any advice on increments for seating depth for testing with 40 and 50 gr VMAX when I get to that point, the only advice I have found online so far has been for Bergers in larger diameters. The magazine has plenty of room to play with 3-4mm. Cheers Vince |
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@ 06:31 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Remington 222 Project, second guessing OCW resultsHi Vince, generally speaking, the faster you drive the V-MAX / ELDM etc, the closer these like to be to the lands. Provided you can take an accurate measurement and also provided that the bullet is not sitting too far out of the case neck, it can be worth trying for an initial .010 (.2mm) jump.This is also discussed in my reloading book. |
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@ 06:41 pm (GMT) |
VinceRe: Remington 222 Project, second guessing OCW resultsThanks NathanI haven't got the reloading book yet, sounds like that needs to change! Cheers Vince |
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@ 09:14 pm (GMT) |
David LandwehrRe: Remington 222 Project, second guessing OCW resultsVince, buy the whole book series. I keep referring back to them time and again.Looks like I'll have to read up on ocw again. Keep us informed of progress. Cheers. |
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@ 07:42 pm (GMT) |
VinceRe: Remington 222 Project, second guessing OCW resultsThanks DavidI got the reloading book shortly after I read Nathan's post, I have been getting them based on coming up against questions I can't answer to my own satisfaction, I figured getting them all at once would be way too much information and it made more sense too wait until I am motivated to read them so I can focus more on specific issues. For example I didn't bother with the Long Range Cartridges book until recently because for good or ill I had already made those decisions, had I decided to sell and buy again that may have changed the order of importance! The only rifle purchase that has been influenced to date is the current Remington .222 although full disclosure if I could have found a Sako Vixen that was even remotely affordable I would have got that instead, they are a lovely part of our rifle history in NZ. The new book has been great already, I tend to skim read them first then go back and look at individual parts in greater detail, it has been affirming in that much of my reloading process is solid already, but with enough tweaks and changes to see a path to better results without spending lots of money! We are currently back in lockdown in the part of NZ I live so I have been spending my time measuring projectiles amongst other things, both helpful and rather depressing that I have time to do it, but at least I can start seating x off the lands in the near future 
these seem pretty consistent, I'm guessing projectile base to ogive will have even smaller discrepancies Cheers Vince |
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@ 07:18 pm (GMT) |
VinceRe: Remington 222 Project, second guessing OCW resultsHi EveryoneJust tried some new reloads with interesting if a bit disappointing results, I measured the lands with a modified case at 2.820 inches case to ogive and loaded up 2 groups of 3 rounds each at 23.1gr, 24gr and 24.9gr at 2.810 inches case to ogive (10 thou off the lands) As per the reloading book I did some extra steps with brass prep and used the Lee collet die that was already on order when I last posted and has finally arrived. 
23.1 is still shooting fairly well, but 24 was worse and no improvement with the hot load at 24.9 which is theoretical book max. My conclusion at this point is to hope that the barrel isn't broken in for the short term and use the 23.1gr load, potentially also trying a round at 25.5gr and 25.8gr to check for pressure signs then a 3 shot group if they are ok. After that a re-crown or re-barrel paerhaps, anyone have any suggestions? Cheers Vince |
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@ 06:47 pm (GMT) |
VinceRe: Remington 222 Project, second guessing OCW resultsHi EveryoneFinally got some repeatably good results, still guessing a bit but think this is partly due to barrel break in and partly due to some tweaks to my reloading process based on Nathans book The load is 23.2gr H335 10 thou off the lands doing 3100 fps with a 50gr VMAX. 
the last group was a bit sloppy, I was testing 4 rifles on the day so I'll call it fatigue but it gave me the correct height so all good. Groups were 0.27, 0.20, 0.15 and 0.40, thanks for the help Nathan. Cheers Vince |
@ 08:17 pm (GMT) |
Ben LawRe: Remington 222 Project, second guessing OCW resultswow looks like your doing something right. |
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