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Mass Shooting

15 Mar 2019
@ 07:55 pm (GMT)

Andrew Murray

Just heard about the mosques that were shot up. I'm so sorry to hear it. I hope all in NZ are safe and well.

I am embarrassed that these attacks have targeted peaceful people who were worshipping. This kind of rubbish is the gutter of human existence and interaction. I truly hope NZ heals quickly and moves forward. I am praying for you all over there.


16 Mar 2019
@ 11:41 am (GMT)

bryan long

Re: Mass Shooting
The irony of an immigrant going to another country to kill immigrant men, women and children. .

I can't understand people uploading his video or watching it for entertainment.

Rough day for New Zealand, a well loved country worldwide.
16 Mar 2019
@ 01:09 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Mass Shooting
Yes this is terrible in every way. Words cannot help the victims. Nothing can remove the pain which simply has to be felt. Emotions must flow. Pain and love are given in equal measures and in the same moment building to uncontrollable levels. Our only outlet is to cry.

I have not seen the live stream of this, our immediate concern is that when Riley goes to school she may see it from classmates. The school has no checks or balances over social media. We have so far kept Riley away from social media but other parents do not yet seem to fully understand the ramifications of allowing kids to access the internet freely.

During 2017 / 2018 Steph and I worked on a project in which we viewed other live stream material. The weapons in these instances were explosives. The victims were the same, innocent people trapped in buildings / cities. During our briefings we were shown how the attackers were not always religious zealots but instead, disenfranchised youths. We were not allowed to use the word terrorist in our briefings as this created false perceptions (quite true). Current terminology includes such terms as non-state actors or unlawful combatants. But our project leader used a more descriptive term - rock stars of carnage. Sadly, this latter description is the most accurate.

Regardless of which proposed tactic was projected (government controls, counter strategies), the outcome was made worse. Do nothing it gets worse via basic problems of overpopulation versus lack. Add controls, it gets worse at a faster rate. With totalitarian control, large groups of ordinary people would be forced to take state / anti state stances. Ultimately, the project resulted in a system of damage control. All current methods of dealing with human disharmony involve force against force to one extent or another.

Steph and I are still engaged in this work, though it is not yet recognized in NZ as up until a few hours ago, there were no domestic threats to influence greater interest in our more discreet work.

It is important that we have physical counter measures (such as those developed in our projects. But as I look back on what we have learned, it is obvious that counter measures do not get to the root of problems. My expertise in ballistics is useful, but does not provide preventative measures.

Understand, there is no law that can prevent more of this, Already, somebody will be plotting another attack in another country, hoping to beat the numbers.

In my experience, fear cannot be extinguished with more fear. The threat of punishment for a crime does does not always prevent crime as we have just seen. If we are to have any hope of reversing these trends, we need to stop spreading messages of fear (leading to hate) via our media and social media. It is imperative that we stop telling our children that our race is bad, unnatural, flawed, damaging the environment, comments about the world being **ed... whatever. If we keep feeding this fear into our children, more will grow to be the villains of society.

It is time for us to start being kind to ourselves. It is time to shut out these messages of fear, look within and nurture love. And we also need to learn how to properly nurture our children, not leave them to be raised by the media or social media and school studies thereof. Our children need to know that they are loved and how to love themselves. They need to learn the difference between self love and self centered behavior which comes from a fear of lack.

We are constantly told to be more compassionate and more loving towards others but we have no understanding of how to do this because we do not know how to love to ourselves. If you do not own something - you cannot give it away. If you do not have love for yourself, you have no love to share with others.

These rock stars of carnage are completely reliant on you looking at them, creating the thing that they crave - an audience.

I urge you to look within yourself this very moment. Do not be afraid, if you look within and feel that you (our race) is bad, look deeper. At your core, you will find love. It was there when you were born and will be all that remains when you take your last breath.

Start this very moment.

For our own survival, we must recognize that we are love, we are good, we are magnificent. No matter what actions others might take in their reaction to fear, we must learn to see that love is at our core. If you can learn to recognize this within yourself, this is what you will show to the world - love.
16 Mar 2019
@ 06:02 pm (GMT)

John D. Hays - New Mexico

Re: Mass Shooting

I have been intimately working with personal computers since 1981 and have made my living working with them for well over twenty-five years, since the birth of the Internet as we know it today.

Looking at the pitiful state of the western world with all the turmoil, destruction and cultural decay, I have a simple question:

Is there any great problem of today that has not been made a million times worse by personal computers and the Internet?

Aren't our worst problems force multiplied by digital technology?

If you don't think so, just watch as robotics and artificial intelligence eats us alive.
17 Mar 2019
@ 02:19 am (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: Mass Shooting
Firstly to the people. My fellow Kiwi "Landsmen" who have lost their loved ones my deepest sympathy and condolences. You have lost the most important part of your life. Your loved family. I'm deeply saddened, angered and disgusted buy this abhorrent persons actions.
How ironic that a Serpent gave a human an Apple and the people who participated in its consumption where banned from the garden of life n love....
The first house hold Computers we got, we brought into our homes under the guise and with miss placed hope and trust. Thinking that it was the path to a new enhanced future. Only to be idiwinked. It was"THE APPLE"
From that electronic apple has come the filth and mind wasting, brain washing crap that's stolen from the Human. A natural earth paced experience of what it was for thousands of years The expense of being Human. Into becoming a numbed, disenfranchised pawn, as the Apples juice has been flowed into our eyes and into our brains twisting our way of life. "A false" Theft of Automatic grandeur. Has taken place, of which there appears to be no hope of escape? How much of this invasive cranial colonization should we allow/accept..... how do we stop the invasion of our beings?
MUCH soul searching is needed.

BUT! Right now we all need to unite as one compassionate voice of loving caring empathetic might of humanity. And let the apple know that we shall not be shaken from the roots or the branches of our families trees. That we are the lights of love and the fruit for the future of the light. You can take some but not all. So I ask you all to walk in the light of love and to share and care for all of our fellow humans. Step back, stop and think. We might all be brothers after all....... Peace and love. Hold on to your hearts and share the burden of our nation's loss. Our Kiwi light and hearts, won't be dulled or broken by the action of one individual and some ill informed associates. If you know people who hold dark twisted fantasy based ideals? Expose and challenge their misguided belief. Offer them Truth to step up into loves light. Don't accept their unacceptable behaviour..... Peace and love to all ......
17 Mar 2019
@ 04:09 am (GMT)

Nathanael Hawron

Re: Mass Shooting
My prayers are with you during this dark time.

That was a wonderful post from Nathan, hopefully we can get more people to read it and take it to heart, I'll try to get as many folks as possible to read it.

From the news we get over here, it sounds like the official response is going to be taking away the ability for law abiding hunters & target shooters to own a bunch of different types and classes of rifles & probably more restrictions on the law abiding community in general.
17 Mar 2019
@ 10:46 am (GMT)

John D. Hays - New Mexico

Re: Mass Shooting
Look this is an evil person and this is a political actIon. It is read Dick Hillis to excuse these people ass and saying win they obviously use great care planning and great rationality in their actions The world is full of crazy people who are non-violent Terrorist like this bastard are not mentally deranged they are morally deranged. Face it there are people in this world who choose evil. They choose evil to get what they want.

The point of this narcissistic terrorist act is to get publicity and most Importantly to get Internet viral publicity. Mass murder and mayhem are just a means to that end —- evil people don’t care about who gets hurt. They seve the Evil One and believe his promises of narcissistic fame and power.

Look at what this scum did. Everything was deliberate, rational, planned and evil.

We need to insist the Internet is purged immediately of the names and histories of these violent terrorists. INSTANTLY! Their manifestos and postmortem bile must never see the light. Give them. John Doe name in reporting. Anyone publishing, tweeting or posting their screeds should face civil or criminal penalties for being accomplices after the fact.

Anyone who had forknowledge of their actions should be criminally charged as accomplices to murder.

Remember, it is the 21st-century digital world that is fueling these acts. We have not yet come to recognize this corrosive danger and come to grips with the magnitude of the beast that is devouring us.

Nathan is right, Love is the answer. I myself believe that God is Love and the Evil One plays in empty loveless hearts.

The opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference. In this case the indifference for the lives of innocents.

17 Mar 2019
@ 12:09 pm (GMT)


Re: Mass Shooting
Grammar Correction of first paragraph:

Look this is an evil person and this is a political action. It is ridiculous to excuse these people as insane when they obviously use great care planning and great rationality in their evil actions.

This world is full of crazy people who are non-violent. Terrorists like this bastard are not mentally deranged, they are morally deranged. Face it, there are people in this world who choose evil. They choose evil to get what they want. Often what they want seems crazy to us, but they are NOT insane. They are ruthless, sadistic and mean —- by choice.
19 Mar 2019
@ 10:09 am (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Mass Shooting
Hi again guys, I just want to say thank you to all of the kind and supportive mail we have had coming in from around the world. I just want to let our kiwi readers know that our foreign readers are thinking of us all and wanted me to pass on their sympathies with you.

The world is full of many wonderful people.

20 Mar 2019
@ 04:45 am (GMT)

John D. Hays - New Mexico

Re: Mass Shooting


Nathan is just right, the world is full of wonderful people and New Zealand is always in our hearts as a small microcosm of what is just and decent in the world, and in the Anglosphere particularly.

What just happened is tragic in its consequences. Absolutely heartbreaking. And it was not tragic, beyond control, in its commission. It was a deliberate criminal action by an individual who wanted to use your country to shock the world. In that real sense it was an attack on all of you. I’m so sorry this happened, the world grieves with you.

Please keep in mind that you don’t have the power to epiate the sin of this killer. As Solzhenitsyn, who suffered from the crimes of others, wrote, “But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being.”
The killer’s actions are his own and he must pay for them In this world and the next.

I sincerely hope that your country will not take away the rights and priviledges of your people in a rush and panic. Such crisis laws are never just and can never change the past, and never will stop evil acts by a determined criminal.

We pray for you, New Zealanders, that God grants you peace and healing.
20 Mar 2019
@ 08:33 pm (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: Mass Shooting
Thank you John. Today I went to the local Kebab shop, The owner is from Turkey and a bloody neat guy. I walked in and he said how are you? I haven't seen you for a while in his usual bright self. I said I'm ok and I just called in here to see if you're doing alright. I'm ok he says and thank you for asking and he gives me a big hug saying thank you...... It don't take much to care for your fellow human being eh?
Here's a song "Where is the love " by the Black eyed peas. Look at the comments from all over the world and over 416 million views. It's a great song.....

Then the song "We are the world" ear wormed itself today with the words "Send them your heart so they know that someone cares" And " If you'd just believe" I remember hearing this song, reading the words as a teenrager and believing that everyone would hear and think about the words..... and the whole world would wake up to itself and decide to change for the best. For its people! not for Money??? How stupid as a young man I was to think it was possible for the world too come together as one????? I haven't given up hoping for that spark of Hope to ignite and set fire to the hearts n souls of the human species to turn away from certain failure towards thought inspired success????? Rebellions are built on Hope......Without hope we have nothing........?????

There comes a time when we heed a certain call
When the world must come together as one
There are people dying
And it's time to lend a hand to life
The greatest gift of all

[verse 2]
We can't go on pretending day by day
That someone, somewhere will soon make a change
We are all a part of One great big family
And the truth, you know
Love is all we need

We are the world, we are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So lets start giving
There's a choice we're making
We're saving our own lives
It's true we'll make a better day
Just you and me

[verse 3]
Send them your heart so they'll know that someone cares
And their lives will be stronger and free
As God has shown us by turning stones to bread
So we all must lend a helping hand

We are the world, we are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So lets start giving
There's a choice we're making
We're saving our own lives
It's true we'll make a better day
Just you and me

When you're down and out, there seems no hope at all
But if you just believe there's no way we can fall
Let us realize that a change can only come
When we stand together as one

We are the world, we are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So lets start giving
There's a choice we're making
We're saving our own lives
It's true we'll make a better day
Just you and me

Isnt it Ironic that in The Hitch hikers guide to the galaxy the meaning of life turns out to be 42.....

The spam code for this post is 42x
Take care everyone Aroha Nui Warwick
21 Mar 2019
@ 07:36 pm (GMT)

Lee Minhinnick

Re: Mass Shooting
Hi this event will have lasting effects for this country. Sick to think this person wanted it live streamed and wants this much attention. Sorry to the familys that have lost loved ones or family friends in hospital.

My concern is not now but the long term effects of our culture and state of the country as we go forward. The actions of one muppet has given all anti gun movements in this country all they need to remove freedoms of lawful gun owners. This is kind of New Zealands 9 11 and my hat goes off to all the people who pulled together police army St Johns and hospital services who all were all put through very trying events. The good in this is to see the country stand as one and morn with the loss of life. Hope and pray that this never happens again on these lands. Hate does not drive out hate only love as others have said. Not adding anything new just my support to my follow kiwis and hopeful for a better future for the coming generation.
22 Mar 2019
@ 04:16 am (GMT)

John D. Hays - New Mexico

Re: Mass Shooting

This crime occurred in your country, and in mine such attacks are much more frequent, usually of Islamist political terrorism but sometimes other evil kooks join in such as the 1995 bombing of the Morrow Building in my hometown of Oklahoma City; 168 killed including 19 children. Oklahomans are pragmatic and level-headed and did not blame this on anyone other than the individual criminals.

On gun control movements let me give you an American perspective. The totalitarian Left in this country is growing stronger, is well-funded by Silicon Valley and other nouveau billionaires. Most of the media and universities are in tacit lockstep with their goals.

Total disarmament of the people is one of their top priorities. As Statists, they require that the government has a total monopoly of force. Their utopian vision requires and unarmed populace.

One of these politicians, Rahm Emanuel, spoke frankly about a major tactic of the Left:

“You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.” Rahm Emanuel

On gun control and confiscation this means that their script and organization is pre-planned, legislation is secretly pre-written, funding for political action are pre-secured, lists of sympathetic politicians and media personalities are prepared. All of this is done years ahead of the inevitable crisis. Waiting.

You can’t stop all evil nuts all the time. If they can’t get a gun, they build a bomb. If they can’t manage a bomb they rent a truck and mow crowded people down in a public place. These things happen somewhere in the world every day. On March 15th evil came to Christchurch. It came there specifically because the world no longer notices when mass killings happen in Bangladesh, or Karachi, or Syria or Israel or even the United States. To make the news that bastard attacked you because things like that just don’t happen in New Zealand. You were cynically attacked because of your virtue. It makes the news and the Internet social media.

The totalitarian Left did not make this killing happen, but they were prepared for when it did, as it inevitably must —- someday. In Australia, sixteen days after the Port Arthur massacre, the introduced draconian legislation that confiscated private firearms and repressively limited gun ownership. Permanently. In one legislative coup they turned a huge portion of the citizens into criminals.

Now your Prime Minister vows instant and immediate legislation to remove a class of firearms from the people. Once passed, an innocent owner of a semi-auto will become a criminal unless he or she immediately disarms.

Legislation within ten days! Why?

Never let a crisis go to waste.

Why the hurry? What’s the hurry? They must hurry before the crisis passes and people start to think and discuss and consider just what the legislation would do, would it have stopped this Christchurch killer? Who will be hurt by these new laws, who will benefit? Why attack the priviledges of all the citizens, all the people, for the freak crime of one malicious kook?

If you Kiwis are concerned about this, I advise you to contact your legislators and insist that they drastically slow this process down. Democracy is a deliberative process, not a runaway emotional mob —- now matter how useful the crisis.

Please forgive me if my comments here are ill-advised. They are not ill-intentioned. As an American gun owner I have a different perspective than many New Zealanders. Also, please forgive my grammar and spelling. I dictate these things out to my cell phone and it is hard to edit the results on this tiny screen.

God bless you all.
22 Mar 2019
@ 10:03 am (GMT)

mark korte

Re: Mass Shooting
"“You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.”"

John - This could have been a quote from the left or the right - plenty of questionable crises out there and our current President likes to take advantage of them as needed, though its a political tactic ALL politicians seem to use at one time or another to get what they want (votes) or to deflect interest over to something other than the current unfavorable news cycle.

I think its vitally important not to paint this as an "us vs. them" problem. Yes there are extreme leftists liberals that believe no guns anywhere/anytime is the only answer. But there are also plenty of centrists and center left folks that simply believe that something must be done and common sense gun laws are an option that should be discussed, not stonewalled. Therein lies the problem from the extreme left point of view - every time they want to bring up gun violence its a total stonewall from the gun owners/lobby. No meeting in the middle and then another mass shooting happens and suddenly here we are grieving again. This did not just start - at least in the US. We need to think proactively thru this.To vilify everyone that doesn't agree with one's views (left or right) simply puts one in the same questionable boat as the extremist evil wing nuts that have taken to a cause in such unyielding way as to blow up day care centers, fly air planes into buildings and mow down innocent people pursuing their faith in a free country.

Its time to step back from the fear mongering on both sides and figure out some real options or the same insane things will continue - in this we are living the actual definition of insanity! Whether or not you view guns as a crisis, or part of one or of no consequence I think a starting point is that this sort of us vs. them craziness IS indeed a crisis.

All constructive ideas welcome. We need to move in a POSITIVE direction. Its not a head scratcher.
22 Mar 2019
@ 12:46 pm (GMT)

John D. Hays - New Mexico

Re: Mass Shooting

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the response to my post. You and I have a different view of what is going on with gun control, and that view will be different among people from other countries. So that would be interesting to discuss.

Let's wait and see if anyone else wants to chime in.

If so, we should move the discussion to another thread. This one is about the specific attack in Christchurch, about which many people are in shock and deep sorrow.

Also, this happened in their home country and they must decide for themselves a proper response.
22 Mar 2019
@ 01:53 pm (GMT)

William Badgley

Re: Mass Shooting
John, the one big difference is that gun ownership is a privilege not a right in NZ. We in the USA have a 2nd amendment ( a right ) that they don't have. Guessing that explains the speed at which they can proceed to make new gun laws. And Mark is absolutely right that both extremes whether left or right are closed minded and blind to solving the problems. Villainizing each other serves no purpose and indeed make solving problems worse. How do we keep guns out of the hands of the unstable ? That's where we need to be concentrating our brain cells.
22 Mar 2019
@ 06:08 pm (GMT)

Robert Kennedy

Re: Mass Shooting
What is happening in NZ, happened in Australia back in 1996 as you would know. We did not have a Revolutionary War, a Constitution and James Madison to campaign successfully for the Second Amendment to protect the Republic against government tyranny.
For another view of this consider Switzerland which has successfully remained peaceful and free from invaders by building a formidable defensive system backed up by a citizens army, compulsory for able-bodied men who keep a military assault rifle at home (and ammo up until 2003). When the surplus bolt action rifles were withdrawn the government gave them to the militia members for free and shooting competitions are very popular there.
Our Australian surplus FN-FAL style rifles were not held as a strategic reserve as should have happened but were sent for melting down at a steelworks!!
I'm not questioning the event in NZ per se but the magic melting cartridge cases in the video makes me wonder.
Heard on the radio news here that semi-autos were sold out by yesterday at one gun shop in Christchurch.
23 Mar 2019
@ 12:35 pm (GMT)

Steph Foster

Re: Mass Shooting
Although this is a thread that started specifically because of the Christchurch tragedy I think that it is inevitable that conversations turn to the question of how to prevent this from happening again and of course how this should never have happened in the first place.

Mark and John, you both believe that you have very different beliefs and political leanings. So what? They are just clothes that you wear on any given day. From where I am sitting, looking at you both from the outside I see you as both the same. You are both saddened, angered and hurt that this has happened to those poor people and in fact our whole country. You both wish for all our sakes that it never happened and you both wish that you had the power to stop it from ever happening again. You are both kind, compassionate men who give a shit about others. See, you are the same people with the same fundamental common ground – as are all of us once you strip away the “clothes” that we wear.

The reality is we must work with REALITY. It is no good talking about how the world SHOULD be. This is the how we end up in contention with each other. I find it interesting how much talk there is about embracing diversity but what we really want is to impose our ideals on to other and make them live our vision. Diversity in general terms is lovely but in your face differences are insulting.

So, this is my opinion on how I believe we need to go forward. Just my opinion, based on my interpretation of the information presented to my brain through my senses, colored by the filters of my parental influence, cultural beliefs, relationship status, spiritual ideals, work history, education and the integral part of me that is ME. My opinion is utterly unique to me and I have no need for anybody else to agree with me or even comment. At the risk of sounding blunt I don’t need another person to validate me by agreeing or even disagreeing with me.

For a start I believe that if (note if) the only way to save the world and save mankind is to make everyone conform to the same ideas and beliefs then we are already doomed. Embrace diversity or enforce sameness – which is it?

Regarding gun control, the reality is, what we actually want to control is the crazy. The thing with crazy is that it is by definition not mentally sound: marked by thought or action that lacks reason. Crazy is always unpredictable and uncontrollable therefore we hope that since we can’t control the crazy maybe we can control the environment where crazy flourishes. The problem is crazy by it’s very nature is forged and flourishes in controlled environments. The more rigid and controlled an environment becomes, the ‘crazier’ subtle irregularities begin to seem. The parents of little boys that want to play cops and robbers in a gun free country are looked at askance because their child is expressing aberrant behaviour – maybe crazy behaviour. What is the solution? Closer scrutiny, find the root cause, tighter control – nip the crazy in the bud – necessary loss of privacy and individual expression for the good of the country. A rather extreme scenario but let’s be honest it’s one we all fear.

In my opinion the question of gun control in the US is a moot point. The old saying ‘shutting the barn door after the horse has escaped’ applies here. Except, not only has the horse escaped it has been running in the hills, has had several foals and is now dead of natural causes.

Why does it always have to come back to control, control, control? How many years, decades, CENTURIES, lives, freedoms have to be wasted before someone says “hey trying to control others isn’t really working for us?

Why - when all of our spiritual, ethical and moral teachings tells us that giving is the key to happiness– do we think that the way forward is to take away from others?

Acceptance, kindness, education.

Acceptance of others life choices means being OK with the self expression of others regardless of whether those choices go against everything you believe for yourself. Be kind to those who are living lives that you see as destructive and mean or negligent or whatever. If you can be accepting and kind to others you allow them the space to feel safe and people who feel safe are open to new ideas. Acceptance means understanding that another person’s version of reality is different to yours and you're ok with that.

I believe that the US is in the perfect position to lead by example. Instead of following the tried and failed format of panic – gun control! Accept your position, be kind to each other and educate firearms users through acceptance and kindness. Instead of tarring every one with the brush of potential criminality, embrace people and educate with acceptance. Be the world leaders in true freedom – you are the ones who have the tools to do it.

When Nathan and I set out on our journey our main goal was to advance the skills and knowledge of our fellow hunters and firearm enthusiasts. We definitely hoped to make some money along the way – enough to pay the bills at least but it has never been the force that drives us. We have always believed that the key to getting the most out of life is to give (we have also learnt that setting personal boundaries is also important lol). If you believe that success can be gained by taking from others then you are under the same delusion as those who think that controlling others is a manifestation of personal power.

We need to learn to look at our beliefs and what we believe will make us feel happy and safe in the world. If the only way you believe you can be safe and happy here is by taking something – whether it be something tangible, or some choice, or ability to make a decision – from other people then I am of the opinion that you are on the wrong track for achieving any kind of peace.

But remember all of this is just a personal opinion.

23 Mar 2019
@ 03:19 pm (GMT)

Simon Crowther

Re: Mass Shooting
This hits the nail on the head. Both here and in the US, there are just too many firearms in circulation for a ban to achieve anything more than just a means of exerting more control on law abiding people and political virtue signalling.

My second home is Brazil but after living there for many years, one of the things I appreciate about NZ is being able to walk the streets without fear of firearms. I've had Glocks pointed in my face by the Military Police, seen people held up at gunpoint by violent muggers and been the victim of a violent mugging myself.

The fact that here in NZ we've always had so many firearms in circulation and so little violent firearms related crime (until recently) is amazing in itself and a tribute to the New Zealand people, believe me this is very rare, not just in places like Brazil but in countries worldwide.

I've never owned an MSSA, it's just not my style and I have no practical use for one. The trouble is, I think that all that Jacinda Ardern is going to achieve by banning MSSAs, is to drive them underground and into the hands of all of the wrong people and unfortunately they will again emerge with more unfortunate consequences.

The firearms community in NZ cooperates with the police and government very well and has done everything to create a situation of trust, we loose that trust at our peril, it's a very rare thing and should be preserved.

I've been around this world more times that I can remember and I appreciate NZ as the unique and peaceful place that it is and I want it to stay that way.
24 Mar 2019
@ 08:53 am (GMT)

Jon Short

Re: Mass Shooting
I totally agree Simon. A fair number of MSSAs will now end out in criminals & particularly gang members hands who are people of all nationalities by the way. Criminals won't give a damn about the ban, they will see it as an opportunity 7 take what they can get.

MSSAs are not my style either, but I do not see a ban as the answer. An MSSA or any rilfe for that matter does not pick itself up & pull the trigger on its own, just the same way a sharp kitchen carving knife doesn't pick itself up & embed itself into someone. Its the crazy prick that picks it up. That's where the controls should be & are supposed to be under our licensing system how it was. To me it was the Police vetting of the crazy prick that failed to show up this guy for who he was.

Shouldn't the police be looking at their vetting system as that is where they failed us all.

On another matter can anyone identify the rifle the Police here in NZ are now armed with? From recent photos they look to be a semi auto.

Isn't that ironic? Do they really need them? Why?

24 Mar 2019
@ 10:23 am (GMT)

Mike Davis

Re: Mass Shooting
ok Ive stayed silent on this thread for a time now to ponder my thoughts/process them properly.
awesome post Steph...absolutely awesome.
live n let live and love one an other....(there are a couple of songs in there)

had a random though about the proposed buy back of the MSSAs out there...wouldnt it be great/nice/usefull/less painfull IF the rifles when purchased by taxpayer $$$$ were then given to the armed forces whos firearms are purchased by the taxpayers $$$$$
the armourers could have a field day....anything that was junk....dump anything that is worthwhile using but in obscure calibre,put in grease and store for "just in case" and the others in std form/calibre could be issued out...we would end up with one of the best equiped/armed service folk around.those very accurate rifles could be issued to units who could really USE them to greater good.
still be a kick in the guts to folk who unvolentaraly sold them but better than them being crushed.

another thing is how to explain to non shooting or uneducated folk what/why the current laws HAVENT worked....this is MY take on it
to use a different analogy....lets take four wheel drive vechiles and pretend for a momont we want to stop folk off road four wheel driving
so we introdue some laws to prevent it/make it really difficult
first off we say you are allowed to own and use a say nissan terrano BUT you have to run it with road grip tyres and arent allowed a fuel tank of more than 35 litres
if everyone complies you wont get far off track and cant travel long theory problem solved
then comes the fly in ointment/loophole
you can own a nissan 2wd ute and run what ever tyres/rims you like
you can have fuel in a jerry can AS LONG as they arent used in/on the terrano

what I see has happened is the manufactures/retailers have pandered to the instant gratification memememe crowd who wanted the tacticool look and made things to (deliberately???) get around the loopholes in the law and make $$$$ from this niche need.

look at any guncity full page add from last 2 years and at a quick glance you will see 10-15 guns/rifles that LOOK like something Rambo n co would use.
its only when you look closer you spot the bolt action or thumbhole stock..... one has been made to look the part ,the other given a paint n panel to desguise its true form.
we allowed the "intent" of the existing laws to be circumvented

my thoughts and prayers go out to the families of the dead and wounded from this mongrels "craziness"

take care of yourselves and one and other folks
25 Mar 2019
@ 07:29 am (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: Mass Shooting
Like most kiwi's i was shocked about what happened.
As a young father it hits home just how evil the world can be.
My heart really goes out to the families that have lost loved ones.
I knew gun control would come up but was horrified at how soon it came up.

We rely on a vetting process of the individual person here to deem them fit and proper. I have nothing but respect for the police and especially arms officers but they have been over worked and under resourced for a number of years now.

There have been questions raised in the past about the vetting process and info sharing. Another Aussie that came here, got his license and committed gun crimes but also had over 30 conviction in Aus. He was real piece of work, would buy guns and sell them to the gangs, even gave his daughter meth/P for her birthday yet was given a gun license in NZ?

As for the gun man in Christchurch, yes he had no criminal record in Aus but no one would of checked till after it happened.

How do we prevent this from happening again. The truth is we can't prevent crazy people. How do we prevent this happening again with a firearm, by the highest vetting we can.

At the moment we have different levels of licenses so we have different levels of vetting.

If you shouldn't have access to a firearm you shouldn't have access to any - not just a a different grade.

The way we are heading is scary in itself we are giving people false security that it won't happen again but in reality we are just reducing the damage that will happen.

We need well written cut and dry laws, otherwise it'll be more tax payers dollars spent defending them in court for decades to come.

Nobody has a clue whats going on at the moment either, both of these statements appear on the official website:

- a semi-automatic firearm that is a shotgun and is capable of being used in combination with a detachable magazine that is capable of holding more than 5 cartridges.

- a semi-automatic firearm that is a shotgun that is capable of holding more than 5 cartridges.

We have had politicians hand in rifles that aren't getting banned so do they expect us tax payers to buy their personal property for no reason?

One thing I have noticed is how closed minded hunters are in this country, Nathan and Steph had told me but I didn't expect it so bad. In a nut shell "i hunt like this how dare you think there's another way" is the attitude.
I love learning and experiencing new things, that's the point of life to me. I am mainly a central north island public land bush stalker but I look forwards to any hunting that's completely different from my usually style.
Hopefully this year I'll give Thar hunting ago and a friend of mine will take me rabbit shooting in central Otago.

Maybe one day I'll hunt bigger game animals in Africa or hunt in Alaska or Finland.

Just food for thought, armored vehicle staff in Aussie while the nz police aren't. Who's got the better gun laws?


26 Mar 2019
@ 10:13 am (GMT)

Simon Crowther

Re: Mass Shooting
Thomas - about right I think. For the nutters in this world, if they want to maim and kill people there's always a way to do it. In some countries like the UK they want to ban knives, but what difference would that make? A screwdriver would do a similar job to a knife.

Weapons are too easily improvised and too easily available on the black market, I suppose the next attack will be with explosives, easily improvised with agricultural fertiliser and similar, look on the Internet,there are thousands of recipes.

Law abiding firearms owners are an easy target for governments and they can stand on the world stage, appear tough and virtue signal to their hearts content. Meanwhile terrorism continues to thrive word wide.

We're not allowed to use firearms for self defense here in NZ unless its a matter of life and death, which of course in Christchurch it was. I'm sure that the occupants of the Christchurch Mosque would have been grateful to have a couple of ARs handy, but of course now they won't have the option.

I don't like the thought of firearms on the street but we have to be pragmatic and make sure our firearms laws don't just end up protecting criminals.

As for hunting, I'm sure our government hates the fact that we can be in any way self sufficient, they're not interested in anything that they can't put a meter on and tax the hell out of.

Firearms can be a problem, but governments are more so and that's the most likely reason they feel a bit insecure about us having guns.
26 Mar 2019
@ 07:11 pm (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: Mass Shooting
still getting my head around this stuff myself but this is the act so they have reclassified what is e cat using this part of the act.
the new law that they want to bring in in the next couple of weeks will be for the complete removal of e cat and anything else they want.

New sections 74A and 74B inserted
The following sections are inserted after section 74:

“74AOrders relating to military style semi-automatic firearms
The Governor-General may by Order in Council do any or all of the following things:

“(a)describe a kind of component as a pistol grip for the purposes of the definition in section 2 of military style semi-automatic firearm:

“(b)declare semi-automatic firearms (other than pistols) of a stated make and model to be military style semi-automatic firearms for the purposes of this Act:

“(c)declare semi-automatic firearms (other than pistols) of a stated description to be military style semi-automatic firearms for the purposes of this Act:

“(d)define or describe features of a semi-automatic firearm (other than a pistol) as features of a military style semi-automatic firearm for the purposes of this Act.
26 Mar 2019
@ 07:12 pm (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: Mass Shooting
oh and if they get rid of c cat (collectors) it means Sir Peter Jackson will loose his personal historic collection.
plus say goodbye to any action movies getting filmed here again
27 Mar 2019
@ 01:47 pm (GMT)

Simon Crowther

Re: Mass Shooting
Here's an interesting bit of info for you. I've pasted a link to the last few minutes of this X22 Report, its very interesting what they have to say about New Zealand and gun control. I'll leave you to draw you own conclusions. Another perspective for sure, but if there were anything in it? We have to consider all the possibilities.

It's also worth noting that one of the first things that Jacinda Ardern did on becoming Prime Minister was to visit Hillary Clinton for discussions.


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