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> .26 Nosler
.26 Nosler
@ 11:58 pm (GMT) |
Paul NeeseTo: Mr. Foster in particular and all others. I just got my April 2014" Shooting Times Magazine" and plastered on the cover is the .26 Nosler. To me it looks like a 6.5mm version of the 7mm Valkerye, which in my somewhat limited opinion is basically the 7mm Practical with the P.O.Ackley treatment. What opinions and expectations do you have for the .26 Nosler ? I haven't even finished the article yet.In the article they claim the 7mm Rum is the parent case,but, I've got the drawings for the Practical and the Valkerye and the case dimensions are VERY close to the .26 Nosler, the Nosler doesn't have a belt though. The article says "withgood bbl. maintance they expect to get 1000 rounds maybe a little more in bbl. life." The article's author wasn't as optomistic, he's expecting more like 800 rounds. Mr.Foster I know you are Very busy,but if you, at your convience would give your opinion and general thoughts (bbl. burner, 6.5 vs. 7mm ballistics-knock down power, max. effective range, etc ). Any other thoughts would also be appreciated. FYI: People in your neck/woods are Very much Like us (USA) Southerners Thanking You iIn advance...Paul Neese (I'm in South carolina-Kenney Jarrett"s home state. I'd love to hear a conversation between you two) |
Replies
@ 02:46 pm (GMT) |
deerndingoRe: .26 NoslerDepends what the twist the barrel is but it's standard loads don't include heavy for calibre projectiles and the neck is short too. Sounds like a good intermediate range deer round with a short barrel life. Its advertised 415 PBR (10" circle) comes with a 5.17" rise at 350 or so. Its another hotrod based on the 404 Jeffries. |
@ 05:10 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: .26 NoslerHi Paul, I was sent a write up on this after it was released.To be honest, I am a bit annoyed by it. Those of you who have read my second book will know that I have great concerns about the current state of senior workers and management within companies like Nosler. There is a huge gap between the knowledge of those who came before them and current thinking. Nosler for example, seem hell bent on creating long range bullets without the most basic, rudimentary understanding of long range killing. New bullet designs are ill conceived and now we are seeing yet another massively overbore cartridge to power these poorly thought out bullets in order to make them effective at extended ranges. Deerndingo has pretty much hit the nail on the head. The .26 will be able to increase the effective range (disproportionate to caliber wounding) of Noslers core bonded and tough jacked Ballistic Tip bullets to extended ranges. Had Nosler come up with a soft skinned 160 grain bullet, more folk would have benefited, the bullet being of great use use in the .264, 6.5-06 and 6.5-284. Effective range would be increased, body weight flexibilty would be increased all the while increasing barrel life due to reduced powder charges. Barrel life of the .26 will depend on the operator. Most folk won't get to 800 rounds if they plink with this number. Those who know how to keep a throat polished and in check may reach the 1000 round mark. I do not know whether such designs are based innocently on misinformation or whether it is pure arrogance, who has the biggest Johnson at Shot Show. Nevertheless, I am sure a few folk will enjoy the .26. It is a bit of a risky cartridge because I believe this case capacity is prone to pressure spikes if the throat is too short. It will certainly shoot flat. |
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@ 05:14 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: .26 NoslerI forgot to mention Paul, I have the greatest respect for Kenny Jarret. Folk like him set the bar via their work ethic and conduct. |
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@ 01:48 pm (GMT) |
DeerndingoRe: .26 NoslerHI All,OK, I'll bite. After reading Nathans post concerning the limited range of the new Nosler .26 I have to ask - Why isn't there a good closeish to full range projectile out there. Hornady nearly do it in the 7mm with an annealed 162gr SST. If simple guys like us can convert the SST to something close you would have to think that a bullet maker like Nosler or Hornady could do it for real. Penny for your thoughts. Thanks in advance |
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@ 01:54 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: .26 NoslerAs I wrote in the second book, my thoughts are that long range hunting is still fairly new- even though it has been very popular for the last decade. Further to this, I believe that most bullet manufacturers have yet to catch up.We went through a period where the term "bullet blow up" was the worst press a bullet manufacturer could receive. So the bullets got tougher and then the cartridges became ever more potent and so forth. We can go further by simply observing company statements. This gives us some idea of current thinking: "The 26 Nosler® cartridge was designed to take advantage of the inherently accurate and high B.C. 6.5mm (.264) caliber bullets, and is capable of shooting the Nosler® 129 grain, AccuBond® Long Range™ bullet at a blazing 3400 fps out of the muzzle. Zeroed at 350 yards, the 26 Nosler® has a Point Blank Range of 0-415 yards. Loaded with the 129gr ABLR, the 26 Nosler® retains as much velocity at 400 yards as the 260 Remington® produces at the muzzle." If we look at the above, we can see that Nosler have displayed similar thinking to Roy Weatherby. Roy did not have a dial capable scope in his day so he wanted a flat trajectory. We see the same again here, a point and shoot cartridge. I read this as an assumption that even though modern hunters have access to long range equipment, Nosler believe that modern hunters are more interested in a point and shoot cartridge. My market research suggests otherwise. Hunters are very much interested in refining their skills rather than looking for easy answers (I would not have bothered writing the book series if this was not so). If we go a bit further down the rabbit hole and look at the .260 Rem statement, we find that this is blatantly incorrect. The .260 fires a 129gr bullet at an average of 2850fps. The .26 Nosler breaks 2850fps at about 310 yards. Why fudge these facts when the modern hunter is so well armed with information? The advertising literature then goes on: "The 26 Nosler® case is non-belted, thus headspaced off of the shoulder to further enhance accuracy. The “26” also utilizes a standard (30-06) length action meaning shorter bolt-throw and lighter weight than magnum length actions" As many of you will know, we haven't seen many true magnum length actions for a long time. CZ make one. Sako had the sporting variant of the TRG. But otherwise, we have basically short, medium (Mausers) and long actions. Gun manufacturers use the same action for both .30-06 and the magnums. Why fudge these facts? The more we put our focus into observation, the more gaps we see. I think some of the problem stems from the Donald Trump or Rich Dad Poor Dad business model where all attention is put into product marketing (albeit without decent market research) with little thought put into the product itself. Perhaps Nosler believe that everything has been done before so this is the only direction left to them. So lets try this again Deerndingo with an 'all range bullet' that can not only produce bullet expansion at 1600fps (I will call it at 1600fps) but also wide, disproportionate to caliber wounding (which if you have read my second book you will thoroughly understand as I am sure you do). Now we have a picture which could look something like this: "The New .26 Nolser has an effective range of 1100 yards" Personally, I would not want the throat wear but still, that is a decent effective range and no need to make comparisons with the .260 Rem etc, it is what it is. We should be able to achieve 1050-1100 yard performance in the .26 Nolser with hand loads (just have to bear in mind that I am making extrapolated estomates at this stage). The trouble is, shorter range performance goes out the window due to the risk of shallow penetration with the likes of the A-MAX. Yet again, the more we look into it, the more we see the need for a heavier bullet to bridge the gap regarding Deerndingos post. This also increases body weight flexibility. That said, your mention of the SST offers some compromise. And so it goes on. |
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@ 01:56 pm (GMT) |
faulknerRe: .26 NoslerWell said Nathan,,,, and we all thought the 264 was a barrel burner LOL. The 6.5 that interests me the most is a 6.5 WSM, it's a bit funny that on their web site they have links to several rifle makers,,,,,which is actually a pole! And here I thought I was going to order a shiny new Sako A4 STAINLESS,,,,, would that be something!I think the only real do it all any range bullet is possibly a ultra low drag 30cal with SD in the .360 range and really soft,,,, but we'll have to see;) Cheers, Aj |
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@ 02:41 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: .26 NoslerI would agree AJ. The softer we go, the higher the risk of shallow penetration so to decrease this risk, we can increase SD and bullet weight.I was having a cuppa with Steph yesterday afternoon, one of those romantic moments where we get to talk about such things as new bullet or cartridge designs and could she please fire off the drawing and tables for my 8x68 S research. Anyway, it gave me a chance to think about company mindset some more. We have a large number of hunters who like to stalk in close and enjoy all of the challenges that come with this. We also have a large number of hunters who like to shoot long and also enjoy the challenges involved. This group may also consist of those of us who are aging or physically handicapped in some way which limits stalking abilities. There are also those who like to employ both hunting methods and both sets of challenges. A third category consists of hunters who have a lack of understanding of what it takes to connect at long ranges. This may be perfectly innocent (still learning) or in its negative form, deliberate ignorance with a need for instant gratification without skill. This hunter expects the cartridge to shoot flat out to true long ranges without any need for sight adjustment. The trouble is, this hunter also expects zero wind drift. I believe that this is the target market for the likes of the .26 along with its projectile design. So as an answer to your question Deerndingo, I think that as long as companies are focused on the things I have described, advancements in bullet design from major companies like Nosler will be slow. |
@ 08:49 pm (GMT) |
Jim MoseleyRe: .26 NoslerWhy introduce a new cartridge now, when there is such a dramatic shortage of components? This will only add to the current problem. |
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@ 01:52 am (GMT) |
Paul NeeseRe: .26 NoslerI think that alot of the problem lies in the lack of understanding a heavy bullet started slower than lighter bullet started faster is passed by the heavier bullet down range. All they understand is muzzle velocity. I'm not even going to bring up the the benefit of the heavier (usally longer)bullet generally having a higher B.C. Paul |
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@ 02:18 am (GMT) |
deerndingoRe: .26 NoslerBy all means softer for longer and harder for shorter, but why isn't there a progressively softer to harder for short to long range?I preface this by reciting the old say that "nothing is impossible if you don't know what you're talking about'." |
@ 03:29 pm (GMT) |
Martin TaylorRe: .26 NoslerA heavy partition with really high bc's, thin wall & soft lead up front and as Aj said in a 30cal,Job done, mmmmm, only if such a thing was available! high retained energy, frangible with the base to keep driving on its way. sounds easy! |
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@ 09:21 pm (GMT) |
Paul NeeseRe: .26 NoslerStupid question? Mr.Foster in your post of 20 Feb. 2014 you pointed out that the Magnun actions are limited. Am I wrong reguarding the Rem. RUM series (.300 RUM in particular ) a true magnum length action ? Thank You Paul |
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@ 09:21 pm (GMT) |
Paul NeeseRe: .26 NoslerStupid question? Mr.Foster in your post of 20 Feb. 2014 you pointed out that the Magnun actions are limited. Am I wrong reguarding the Rem. RUM series (.300 RUM in particular ) a true magnum length action ? Thank You Paul |
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@ 09:22 pm (GMT) |
Paul NeeseRe: .26 NoslerStupid question? Mr.Foster in your post of 20 Feb. 2014 you pointed out that the Magnun actions are limited. Am I wrong reguarding the Rem. RUM series (.300 RUM in particular ) a true magnum length action ? Thank You Paul |
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@ 11:21 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: .26 NoslerIts not a silly question Paul. The RUM's are housed in the same action as the .270 and .30-06. Remington make a short and action and a long action. There are no other variations apart from how the bolt face is machined and how the mag box is set up and so forth. |
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@ 02:50 am (GMT) |
Paul NeeseRe: .26 NoslerThanks for the info. Looking at the 300 Rum. I didn't think it would fit in an -06 length action. Thanks again, Hope to get some books soon. Do you have walmart,lowes etc. there ? Paul |
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@ 05:21 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: .26 NoslerHi Paul, just keep in mind that some long actions are longer than others. For example, Ruger long action is not as long as an M700 long action. In other words, you cannot house a RUM on a Ruger long Magnum action. I have tried to cover this in plenty of detail in both of my last books because there is nothing worse than setting out to adopt a chambering, only to find that the rifle action or magazine box is too short. |
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@ 08:41 pm (GMT) |
Paul NeeseRe: .26 NoslerActually if the (Savage) Practical build I'm working on does as good long distance hunting as I expect ,I might build another or something else on the 300 ultra sendero I have. The Ultra is OK but to me it's not all about size of the brass. I got a great deal on the sendero 4 years ago, $450, the guy sold it and 1 & 1/2 boxs of ammo(180 gr.shiracco's) to me. I think between the recoil and the cost of ammo , he bit off more than he could chew. It shoots great, 1/2" to 3/4" 3 shot groups, I do let it cool between shots. One of my best loads is 108gr of a slow powder and a 168 C/T bullet. The Practical is alot more...practical. We will see later on. Hope I don't step on too many toes,but, my opinion is that the whole RUM series is overdone, a sales gimic. In your books, do you suggest loadings ? thanks, Paul |
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@ 03:58 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: .26 NoslerHi Paul, yes I have put loads in the second book. I have included sweet spot ranges for both optimum velocity and accuracy but in many instances, the data I have given is above book maximum (even the start loads) so the book is also full of disclaimers. |
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