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> TTSX & GMX Style Bullets, and Velocity Increases
TTSX & GMX Style Bullets, and Velocity Increases
@ 09:28 am (GMT) |
Ryan NafeFellas,I’ve finally decided to try an all-copper bullet for deer this year. I got a couple boxes of Barnes’ Vor-TX 130 grain TTSX to try out. And yeah I really mean it this time, this is what’s going to be used this year. I stopped flip-flopping for the season. But I have a question for you guys regarding this bullet and the similar 125 grain GMX from Hornady, and just the all-copper bullets in general: - This bullet will obviously not shed any significant amount of weight, which means that (unlike an A-Max, for example) it’s ability to produce wide wounding is almost entirely velocity dependent. - Given that situation, will a direct and large increase in impact velocity, say 500 FPS, produce a proportional increase in the size of wound channels? Or is there a point of no additional gains, where the performance basically maxes out, regardless of increased impact velocity? The reason I’m asking is because loading these lightweight homogeneous bullets to magnum-class velocities could be a very good solution for creating really large wounds and subsequent fast kills without throwing tons of lead around the carcass, in the way that the A-Max/ELD-M would. And this might also provide the benefit of all-angle penetration on stuff up to the ~ 250lb. mark I’m trying to kill. |
Replies
@ 06:34 am (GMT) |
Frank SchweiningerRe: TTSX & GMX Style Bullets, and Velocity IncreasesI hired a guide for a boar hunt in CA. Yes in this area, we are required to use copper and at the time copper was required for 2 years before this. My guide and I discussed shot placement on pigs and deer and what he had seen with his clients. He advised to break a leg quarter. He watched deer runoff and pigs run for miles after being shot correctly.He was on way too many recovery projects where he lost deer and pig. And when we went pig hunting. He had pig dogs for recovering the long distance runners. So I took his advice. Shot a 200 lb. boar in the right front quarter. Found the bullet-7mm 150gn iNosler E-tip n the armor plate in front of the left front quarter after it blew through the right leg. Fully mushroomed with one petal missing. With Nathan's extensive research about copper, my talks with other hunters. Knowing your bullet is key. I think if you are over the 2600 fps mark, you may be fine with a standard shot but under 2600 fps and I think you would be better "breaking a leg". You will definitely have the penetration. My ballistic calc said it entered around 2672 fps and it penetrated over 10" after bone break.Our commitment to hunting is also an ethical one. Quick dispatch of a revered animal is key. You may find your TTSX's will be good for your hunting under 200yds. But know what you have to do when you find yourself with a followup shot after the first one doesn't go as planned. |
@ 12:19 am (GMT) |
Lane SalvatoRe: TTSX & GMX Style Bullets, and Velocity IncreasesI have seen the following animals take off and leave after being hit squarely with monolithic copper bullets: 2 - Barasingha Deer; 1 - Scimitar Horned Oryx; 3 - Nilgai Antelope. The Nilgai were lost never to be found again.I now use DRT Terminal Shock when lead-free is desired or required and have had none of these issues. They shed weight, and meet all California requirements. I don't know why more guys don't try them. They are the fastest killing bullets that I've used, right up there with Hornady ELD-M; A-Max; or Z-Max. I know DRT works better than monolithic copper, but DRT doesn't have the marketing team that the others have. So you have a superior product with an inferior marketing team; and an inferior product with a superior marketing team. |
@ 04:51 am (GMT) |
Michael ToddRe: TTSX & GMX Style Bullets, and Velocity Increaseshttps://www.dropbox.com/s/fzvj3kzj0foguf0/ttsx%20bullet.jpg?dl=0https://www.dropbox.com/s/b7lfj8di1v2qfcy/ttsx%20wound.jpg?dl=0 The photos above are from a 140lb sika stag, shot at 238yds chest on. 130TTSX muzzle velocity circa 3150fps. The bullet caused massive damage to the front of the chest then proceeded to cut through 8 ribs before coming to rest in the curtain meat of the belly. The bullet was recovered as in photo. Needles to say the deer did the vertical sprint and no tracking was required. Hope the photos are visible, I'm better at shooting than computers lol! Mike |
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@ 05:14 am (GMT) |
Ryan NafeRe: TTSX & GMX Style Bullets, and Velocity IncreasesVery nice, that impact velocity would be about 2,500 FPS. Decent for sure, I can’t wait to try them out this year. 2,500 FPS is about the minimum impact velocity I’m likely to get, 2,700 is much more probable. I’ll just aim in line with the front edge of the front legs and let ‘em rip.By the way guys, I picked up a 40 round box of American Eagle 130 grain Speer Varmint hollow points to use for intentional head/neck shots on does. I’m gonna keep a TTSX in the chamber and the mag full of the Speer HP’s, they should be excellent for finishing shots as well if necessary. |
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@ 05:47 am (GMT) |
Michael ToddRe: TTSX & GMX Style Bullets, and Velocity IncreasesHi Ryan,I've now shot 16 deer with the 130TTSX's. All have been through the chest cavity at varying angles. Some have hit one shoulder bone, some both and some neither. All have died within 30yds of the strike . My last was a Stag last night at 168yds, the bullet went in the meaty part of the near side shoulder and out the meaty part of the far side. It went over the top of the heart severing all 4 blood vessels. I have never seen a deer hit harder by any weight of bullet up to and including 168 ELD M's, I swear it was dead before it hit the ground and the sound of the bullet strike was awesome! I have, and have read most of Nathan's books and follow his advice avidly, but I can tell you that having shot over 500 head of game with 6.5's, .270's ,7mm and .30cal bullets the TTSX has been the most spectacular killing bullet I've ever used. My one caveat would be that they need high velocity to perform. Given the right striking velocity they WILL NOT give pencil wounding and at the end of the day if you can't hit an animals' vitals you shouldn't be shooting at them, period. Using heavy, highly frangible bullets to make up for poor shot placement should not be an answer. If someone's intention is to shoot animals at greatly extended ranges and low strike velocity that is a different ball game. Get the TTSX's, shoot them as fast as you can and put them in the right place and you won't be disappointed. Mike |
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@ 12:52 pm (GMT) |
Ryan NafeRe: TTSX & GMX Style Bullets, and Velocity IncreasesI finally had a sunny and rain-free day to do some chronograph testing and general shooting, the rain finally stopped after two solid weeks. All velocities are the result of a 5-round average from about 10 or 12 feet away from the chronograph.Results: Barnes VOR-TX 130 grain TTSX: Average - 3,001 (I am the master of predictions) Extreme Spread - 35 Standard Deviation - 16 American Eagle (Federal) 130 grain Speer HP: Average - 2,911 Extreme Spread - 28 Standard Deviation - 14 |
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@ 01:50 pm (GMT) |
Ryan NafeRe: TTSX & GMX Style Bullets, and Velocity IncreasesCorrection on the American Eagle numbers:The S.D. was 8 and the E.S. was 20 I read from the wrong column of my notes as I was typing. |
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@ 06:53 am (GMT) |
Ryan NafeRe: TTSX & GMX Style Bullets, and Velocity IncreasesJust did a bit of practice shooting yesterday and managed to get a group of .8 MOA with the Barnes stuff. Actual measurement was 0.63” for 3 shots at 75 yards. Nice even triangle shaped group.They’re expensive rounds for sure, but if the velocity is at 3,000 FPS and they shoot that well, I think it’s worth the cost. It would take a good deal of messing around in order to duplicate that, so I’ll just stick with the Barnes factory ammo for this rifle. |
@ 01:54 pm (GMT) |
Frank VallichRe: TTSX & GMX Style Bullets, and Velocity IncreasesHave been practicing every second day, over a two week time frame, at the range shooting paper at 100 and 200 yards. Calibre .308/26 inch barrel.First day out I tried to use sand bags but they were frozen with the rifle sliding around. Luckily I had proven the rifle prior to this and went ahead to shooting over my day bag. Cartridges used: Remington 165 Sirocco. 1 MOA @ 100 and 2 MOA @ 200. Z MAX 168: .8 MOA and 1.5 Inch high @ 100 and 1.5 MOA @ 200 3 inch high of the Remington cartridges. Barnes Cartridge 168: .4 MOA @ 100 and .75 MOA @ 200. In the centre bulls eye. Temperature @ each shoot 10 F to 25 F. I shot the Hornady 178 ELDX, and was more than impressed at 100 yards with three shots basically as close to being on top of one another. A second group was fired on following days with excellent results. This may become the all round cartridge. Staying with the Barnes for this year. Out tomorrow looking for Antlered elk and all Whitetail. Will shoot heart lung area. |
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