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Used Remington SPS’s

11 Oct 2018
@ 06:31 am (GMT)

Ryan Nafe

Fellas,

Given the odds of about 50% that new SPS rifles have a good bore, is it reasonable to assume that a used blued model was likely sold because of that? Should I assume that they’ll need a new barrel?

I finally located a pair of blued SPS’s, both in 7mm Rem Mag. Prices are plenty good at $400, neither of them have even a trace of surface rust or any major handling marks. Slight wear on the bolt body on one and the other looks like it was barely fired.

Do you think it’s reasonable for me to assume that I could fire-lapp it, get a Timney 2-Stage trigger, a B&C stock and have a decent 1 or 2 MOA shooter? Or would you think it’s better to look at it as just an action that’ll need a new barrel right away?

Replies

11 Oct 2018
@ 08:39 am (GMT)

Ben Law

Re: Used Remington SPS’s
Good chance you can get them shooting. Many reasons why people trade rifles in. A lot of people dont know what to do if it doesnt shoot straight out if the box.
Id be surprised if you cant get under 2moa.
11 Oct 2018
@ 09:54 am (GMT)

Andrew Murray

Re: Used Remington SPS’s
Ryan, my Howa was 3MOA out of the box. But proper break in and bedding is no giving truly great accuracy.

Get your rifle and go through the book steps as if it is new then look at fire lapping then rebarrel.
11 Oct 2018
@ 10:38 am (GMT)

Andrew Murray

Re: Used Remington SPS’s
The other thing too Ryan which would be of great help is to watch the M700 video! Like reading the books but in video form!
11 Oct 2018
@ 12:40 pm (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: Used Remington SPS’s
#Yeah.... what he said 😆 You'll Learn with your eyes? If you do learn from it? Please think about what its $aved you? Then donate something to say thanks. Every drop of knowledge counts.
12 Oct 2018
@ 03:38 am (GMT)

Ryan Nafe

Re: Used Remington SPS’s
Thanks for the feedback, guys. I’ll go back to the shop on Friday with a flashlight and magnifying glass and pick whichever one has a better bore/crown.

The search is finally over :-D
12 Oct 2018
@ 10:16 am (GMT)

Luke Lahdenranta

Re: Used Remington SPS’s
Quote:
Thanks for the feedback, guys. I’ll go back to the shop on Friday with a flashlight and magnifying glass and pick whichever one has a better bore/crown.

The search is finally over :-D


Go and grab the one with the better looking crown/barrel. I think for that money you can't go wrong and I think you will see what Nathan's been saying about the M700. They are bit rough around the edges but a little tweaking and they will really shoot. Plus you will have a sound action going forward for any future ballistic explorations. A new 338 mag or how about 358 Norma or 375 RUM? That'll turn your crank if you ever manage to get bored with the Big 7. But who can get bored with +160 gr high BC bullets at +3000 fps?

Welcome to the Big 7 club! :)
12 Oct 2018
@ 01:11 pm (GMT)

John D. Hays - New Mexico

Re: Used Remington SPS’s

Ryan,

I have the impression from your email that these two SPS rifles are being sold by the same person.

If so, go get $700 cash in new bills, show it and offer to take both right now without receipt.

Clean them up, shoot a bit if you like, but put them for sale for $550 each in some online venue or better market. Be patient and stick with your price.

When you get it, buy a Remington 700 Sendero SFII (stainless) new in box with the $1100.

Check the crown and barrel of the new rifle carefully before paying for it (see Nathan's book).

Otherwise, Ryan, save your original $800 and slowly add $300 to it and get that new Sendero.

If you take a used rifle and replace the stock, perhaps the barrel, etc. etc. you will quickly outstrip whatever money you "saved".

If you want a project rifle, just buy the best (unworn) of the two SPS and have at it.
13 Oct 2018
@ 01:21 pm (GMT)

Ryan Nafe

Re: Used Remington SPS’s
John, that’s not a bad plan either. But I’m all-in on a project rifle. Plus there’s an advantage to using an M700 for the DIY stuff because they’re basically like the Glock of the bolt-action world. Everyone makes parts, to the point where you can basically build an M700 that’s not actually a Remington M700.

I was strongly considering either an M700 SPS Long Range or a Sendero/5-R, but after handling them I found that the 26” heavy barrel was likely to be too slow to bring on target, though they definitely had the advantage of being extremely steady once I got them there. The 26” sporter on the standard SPS strikes a nice balance between my 20” sporter that’s quite difficult to hold steady vs the 26” varmint barrels. An apparent middle ground in handling qualities.

I’ve discovered over the last few years through buying, shooting, and modifying various handguns that there’s very rarely a factory gun that’s 100% set up for my exact needs or preferences.

So I have resigned myself to the idea that it’s often best for me to buy a base-model gun and trick it out to my own specifications. Cost vs. cost it’s definitely usually a wash or I can sometimes spend more on the DIY Custom route.
13 Oct 2018
@ 03:37 pm (GMT)

John D. Hays - New Mexico

Re: Used Remington SPS’s

Ryan,

I think you are just right to want to build a rifle that is just right — according to your own taste and needs.

My own prejudice is in favor of literally getting the most bang for the buck. I have traded computer work for three Senderos so far, and start from there in customizing. One is now a 7mm Practical, another is transforming from a .25-06 into a .35 Whelen A.I. and the last is a .308 Win. All have new Shilen barrels, Sightron SIII scopes, blueprinted actions and bedded.

Unaffordable projects if I didn’t get the base rifles essentially for free.

In regards to pistols, I leave them stock except for the SIGs which I love to shoot. The exception is a Glock 40 10mm that has a non-octagonal Wolf barrel to allow use of hard cast, with a compensator to reduce muzzle flip and a mounted light. It also has TruGlo TFX Pro sights that glow in the dark.

I bought and modified this as a bear pistol and believe me, it is a bear to carry. Kinda heavy.

Ryan, have fun and let us know how the project is going with these SPS 700s.
14 Oct 2018
@ 01:54 pm (GMT)

Luis Vazquez

Re: Used Remington SPS’s
Hi Ryan:

On my Remington 700 7mm Rem Mag I've had to do some load testing but have found some prertty good loads, so far the 150 gr Ballistic Tips and Ballistic Silvertip are averaging 0.88". The 154 gr Interlock and SST are both under an inch as well, the interlock at a very nice 0.55" average. The 140 gr bullets averaging 0.80". All loads with IMR 4350.

I have still to test the 160's and 175 gr bullets I have. I'm am loyal to the Rem 700, it's what I grew up on and really never found issues finding the right load. It does take some testing but no issues. Oh, one exception, one that was a 22-250, could not get the heavy bullets to work. Later one I learned why, the twist rate.

Best of luck and and hope it works out for you

Beat regards

Luis
19 Oct 2018
@ 02:19 am (GMT)

Ryan Nafe

Re: Used Remington SPS’s
An update:

I nearly bought the better of the two rifles last Friday, but I decided at the last minute to hold off until this Friday because I’m going to do a straight trade for an old 20 gauge shotgun and my Savage .243, I may even make a small bit of money or get a couple boxes of ammo.

The reason I’m doing this is because I think this is basically like insurance against the barrel needing replacement. The ~ $400 I would have spent on the rifle itself can be set aside for a potential re-barrel or just used on something else entirely.

Losing the .243 is a bit of a bummer, but I’m alright with the trade. I still have the .25-06 so it’s not really a practical loss except for the action.
19 Oct 2018
@ 07:08 am (GMT)

Ryan Nafe

Re: Used Remington SPS’s
Does this stock design look too much like a Monte Carlo one, where the comb will be forced up into my cheek upon firing?

To me it looks like it’s something like halfway between the Remington BDL stock and more standard Varmint design like an HS Precision or B&C #2958
19 Oct 2018
@ 01:56 pm (GMT)

Ryan Nafe

Re: Used Remington SPS’s
Derp!! Gotta post the link if I want feedback haha:

https://www.stockysstocks.com/stocks-by-brand/stocky-s/stocky-s-accublocks/accublockr-laminated-wood-stocks/stocky-s-long-range-accublock-laminated-m50-remington-700.html
21 Oct 2018
@ 08:05 am (GMT)

Ryan Nafe

Re: Used Remington SPS’s
Hey Luis, thanks for the information. No doubt it’ll require a bit of experimentation to get an accurate and fast-moving load in the 700, it should be interesting. I talked to my uncle on the phone yesterday and he said he’d be happy to make load development for the rifle into our winter project, using his equipment.

Nathan had mentioned that in order to see a dramatic difference in terminal effect from this 7mm Rem Mag over my .308 I would need to keep bullet weight at or above 160 grains and try and drive them at or above 3,000 FPS. So for the initial load development I’m focusing mainly on the 160-175 grain stuff.

And I did take home the better of the two rifles last night. The bore and crown didn’t appear to have any major issues, and the bore was clean. Whereas the other rifle looked decent on the outside, but the bore had some copper fouling that had turned green from corrosion, a very bad sign.
26 Oct 2018
@ 04:06 am (GMT)

Ryan Nafe

Re: Used Remington SPS’s
For a woods load at a maximum range of 150 yards, on game weights from 150 to 250 pounds, I want to work with either the Woodleigh 140 grain Weldcore @ around 3,250 or the Norma 170 grain Vulkan @ around 3,020

Impact velocity for the Woodleigh will likely be between 3,150 and 2,950

Impact velocity for the Vulkan will likely be between 2,950 and 2,650

One of these two bullets will be my starting point for the 7mm Mag, barring any serious issues with accuracy that result in groups of 2 MOA or more. Yeah there are dozens of other options, but I’ve not used either brand and don’t know anyone who has, so the “newness” factor is very high.

Which of those two bullets would you choose, and why? Will there likely be any significant difference in terminal effect, or is it simply a case of light/tough vs. heavy/soft?

The Norma is both heavier than my 165 grain SST and is also moving at least 300 FPS faster, while the Woodleigh is heavier than the 130 grain TTSX and is also moving 250 to 300 FPS faster, and is also somewhat softer than the TTSX. So both should provide a noticeable change in terminal effect over my current .308.

The major difference is that the Woodleigh gives about 50% more in effective range than the Norma, about 300 yards vs. 200, but that’s not particularly relevant for my situation anyway.

Load development probably won’t begin until spring, but I’d like to buy the bullets right now so that I can move on to the rifle itself and avoid distractions from various ammunition choices.

Thanks.
26 Oct 2018
@ 09:45 am (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Used Remington SPS’s
Hi Ryan, there is a difference between the two. The 162gr SST would have been an ideal starting point but in lieu of this, you might like to try the Norma Vulkan. Note that its terminal effect is now much in line with the SST at close ranges.

Yes, fit your trigger, a single stage is fine. And yes a new stock would be great. These basic changes will help get groups down by a good margin.

You will just have to see how the velocities go. Let the rifle do the talking.

The Norma bullet is fine but I have found the current Norma brass to be hit and miss. Avoid if possible. If you do end up with it, look out for brass which is too thick at the neck (check by passing a bullet through a fired case neck, should pass with ease). As Grant Lovelock (Ture-Flite) said to me this morning when we were talking about brands, "assumption is the mother of all evils". If the neck is too tight, it barely allows the bullet to escape. With a suppressor fitted (The NZ norm), consecutive shots will cake the chamber with carbon and remove yet another thou from the clearance. At this point, the ammo becomes more like a bomb.

Be sure to work through each step as outlined in the book series (the above issues were included in the suppressor sections of the books). Do not place any reliance on brands. Look at what is in front of you, see what is in front of you. Enjoy the prep process as it will pay dividends at the range and when you go hunting.
26 Oct 2018
@ 09:49 am (GMT)

Luke Lahdenranta

Re: Used Remington SPS’s
I am interested also in that 170 gr Norma Vulkan bullet if you decide to go that route, keep us posted on your results.

If you are looking for a factory load to try right now to get your rifle shooting before you can get your load development, consider trying a box of the Federal premium load with the Sierra 165 game king bullet. In my research on the 7mm that load came up often as one that seems to shoot very well in a lot rifles, and that proved to be the case in my m700 sps as well. After I did the barrel break in, I shot a 4 shot and a 5 shot groups that went under MOA at 100m so I sighted in for that load and will hunt this fall with it. I think it should provide pretty decent all around performance, the accuracy at least is quite gratifying out of a brand new 'budget' rifle.

I have 2 boxes of 160 gr partitions and I will work up a hunting load for them this winter. If I can get a good consistent sub MOA load at anything north of 3000 fps I think I will be happy with that as a starting place for exploring the world of the Big 7's :)
31 Oct 2018
@ 03:37 am (GMT)

Ryan Nafe

Re: Used Remington SPS’s
Would it be wise to stick with the 162 grain SST or the 160 grain Partition in order to ensure that I get the dramatic difference in terminal effect that I’m looking for?

If the Vulkan is in the same class as the two above bullets, where impact velocity is the same, then perhaps it would be better to use a bullet with a higher BC, just to ensure that I don’t run into a situation where performance is too similar to my .308
31 Oct 2018
@ 03:40 am (GMT)

Ryan Nafe

Re: Used Remington SPS’s
By the way, I’m probably not even going to shoot the rifle this year at all. Just piece it together over the winter and begin shooting during load development in the spring.

At the moment I’ve just cleaned it and been doing an application of Ballistol to the bore and outer metal every 3-4 days to keep it from corroding.
31 Oct 2018
@ 08:50 am (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Used Remington SPS’s
Well for now, just while you are getting to know the rifle, you might want to start with the 162gr. It does a great job on game and will give the effect you are wanting. If you want to get a bit fancy, try annealing or double annealing just a few projectiles when you take it hunting.

Seating wise (post throat polishing) for the 162gr SST, you might want to try on the lands and then off the lands by 15 thou and then a bigger jump of 40 thou. But start on the lands (your max OAL). This means that you will need to have a good handle on taking OAL readings. I suggest you used a partially neck sized case, ogive of the bullet well lubed. Do not use a measuring device for this (Hornady comparator etc) as it will not be exact. The measurement needs to be exact so that you don't end up jamming ammo in the chamber, powder spills during extraction. Use my reloading book to learn these steps. Test the rifle through its full velocity spectrum on the lands.

To all, understand that if you seat deep and decrease powder space, it can cause an increase in pressure. But if you seat into the lands, this also increases pressure and raises velocity. Its not one or the other. So if a guy seats on the lands with say 69gr H1000 and velocity is 2900fps, he may then get 2860fps with 1mm / .040" jump. But lets say he has a Tikka and has too seat quite deep to fit the magazine, then the same load may go 2960fps. In each instance, we need to be mindful of pressure versus safety. If a guy (like Ryan) wants to play up at around 3070 or more, it is important to start low and work up carefully. Pay very close attention to the brass.

Hard to put into words here but by taking a few very careful measurements, it may make the entire process much easier. Or put another way, it seems an awful lot of trouble for a 125 yard gun, but just sitting with a cup of coffee for a half hour can help bring things together much more quickly. Seems complex to some, but its about simplicity. This is pretty much the same approach I showed in our last youtube upload which most definitely applies to you.
04 Nov 2018
@ 07:33 am (GMT)

Ryan Nafe

Re: Used Remington SPS’s
Thanks for the information, Nathan. I’ll just roll with the 162 grain SST in the beginning, that way I can use a relatively inexpensive and well-known projectile so that potential issues and confusion have a better chance of being worked through.

On the “It seems like a lot of trouble for a 125 yard gun” thing, here’s how I would view that:

If I’m looking for a specific performance level from a particular rifle and cartridge combination, there’s probably going to be a level of work and effort required to get it. Since I’ve got the information available in your book series, I see no reason why I shouldn’t be able to get optimum performance in this case. It’s an interesting (to me) project that offers me a tremendous amount of learning opportunity, and it’d be a shame to throw that away for instant gratification.


04 Nov 2018
@ 08:04 am (GMT)

Ryan Nafe

Re: Used Remington SPS’s
One other thing, Nathan:

It would be a real shame to not achieve 1 MOA or better accuracy with this rifle and an appropriate handload, because I think it would be a disservice to the potential of the rifle and cartridge.

If I can get right at 1 MOA with the SST at over 3,000 FPS, then I can use one rifle and one handload for all medium game hunting I’ll ever do in my life, right out to the range limitations imposed by my own shooting ability.

—-

To clarify where the project is at, the direction I’d like to take it in, and the general timeframe of completion:

The rifle itself is of 2008 manufacture, it has the non-adjustable X-Mark Pro trigger, and it was not sent in to Remington for the recall work. So the trigger definitely does need to be replaced by a Timney or similar one. I do have some cash set aside for the potential of replacing the barrel, just in case it ends up being necessary.

The book series will just be used as my step-by-step guide for the project, for the entire process. Literally everything, from rifle setup to handloads to shooting. All will be done by the book, in order to keep things simple and also just to see where the books actually take me. Videos will be checked out as well, as needed.

Here’s what I am planning to do:

- New stock with an aluminum bedding block, something with a decently large forend in order to offer a good gripping surface. There are a myriad of options here and I haven’t quite pinpointed the stock of choice yet. Leaning quite strongly to one design from Bell and Carlson and a couple different ones from H.S. Precision, though Stocky’s has a laminate one that looks quite nice.

- New trigger, something that can be set at around 2 pounds

- New firing pin spring and possibly a new firing pin. Just to ensure consistent ignition, since I don’t know how long the rifle was stored with the spring compressed. It’s a cheap part and I might as well replace it, even if the current one is still ok.

- Scope and a good mounting system. I’m gonna go with an S-TAC series scope from Sightron, either the 2-10x32 or the 3-16x42. Mounting system is still an open question but I’m leaning towards Seekins Precision rings and Picatinny rail. Just because they seem like extremely well-designed products and should be a sound investment for any future projects.



All of that will have to be completed by around spring time, early summer at the latest, and load development will begin then.

Once load development is completed, then it’s just practice shooting until deer season next year. The rifle will likely be used as my first choice for stand hunting, with the X-Bolt .308 and Barnes 130 grain TTSX as my walking/stalking/driven hunt gun. Though the 7mm Rem Mag could probably do fine for that as well. Can’t disown the little Browning, it’s been good to me.
04 Nov 2018
@ 09:46 am (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: Used Remington SPS’s
Hi Ryan, I haven't checked for a while but if you get a chance, have a look at Redhawk rifles. Occasionally they have a package deal such as an HS stock PSV-029 plus trigger tech trigger. I often recommend these deals to our U.S readers and the sale process has always gone smoothly. Some very smart project rifles as a result.
12 Nov 2018
@ 06:41 am (GMT)

Ryan Nafe

Re: Used Remington SPS’s
Hey thanks Nathan, that PSV-029 is the exact model I was considering. Just a basic varmint/sporter design without 9 different swivel studs or a bunch of tactical nonsense.

It’s a real shame that B&C doesn’t make their #2958 for a long action. Very similar design.

06 Dec 2018
@ 06:33 am (GMT)

Ryan Nafe

Re: Used Remington SPS’s
Hey fellas, do any of you have experience with the Hogue stock that has the aluminum block in it?

I tried out a Remington 700 Tactical at a local shop the other day, I really like the design. And I could also get the stock in the same color (O.D. Green) as the Hogue grips on my beloved Springfield 1911.

They’re very inexpensive, the shape of the forend is quite nice (if not perfect) and I definitely love the rubber that Hogue uses (they’ve always been my preferred handgun grips)

The main concern is that I really don’t know how rigid it might be, even with the aluminum block. Anyone have any experience with this model?
 

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