|
|
|
Discussion Forums
Forum Index
> Rifles general discussion
> Rifle weight for 7mm rem mag
Rifle weight for 7mm rem mag
@ 03:37 pm (GMT) |
westernerI'm considering purchasing a 7mm rem magnum, which will be my first magnum rifle. I own a 30-06 Tikka T3 that I like a lot, and while the recoil isn't unbearable it isn't exactly pleasant. That rifle weighs about 7.5 lbs with scope and everything. I have only shot 150 grain bullets through the rifle.What sort of weight would make for a 7mm rem mag that can be carried easily enough in the backcountry while remaining not horrible to shoot? Tikkas are awfully light, and I'm wondering if I should look at something a little heavier for a magnum. |
Replies
@ 04:03 pm (GMT) |
Luis VazquezRe: Rifle weight for 7mm rem magHi WesternerI got my 7mm Rem Mag on a great deal I couldn't pass up thinking I would upgrade barrel and stock but haven't needed to get. Its a Remington 700 ADL with a 26" barrel, the rifle itself is 7.5 lbs and just over 9 with scope. I'm not recoil senaitive but its really pleasant to shoot, my wife will shoot it and is not discouraged by the recoil. My brother says it recoils less than his Remingtpn model 7 in 7 SAUM and his has a. boyds all in one laminate stock, his rifle is heavy and ir does recoil more than mine for whatever reason, maybe due to the shorter barrel. Anyways, I would recommend one in the 7 to 7.5 weight range without scope and with at least a 26" barrel. I carry mine through tough terrain for 4 to 8 miles a day with no issues Hope this helps and beat regards Luis |
@ 08:52 am (GMT) |
Thomas KitchenRe: Rifle weight for 7mm rem magHi westerner and welcome to the forum.10-11lbs all up seems to be a nice magnum weight which is something like Remington long range with a sightron 6-24 on top. If you hunt hard 3-5 day walking missions you may want to reduce weight down into 9-10lbs range, sps, tikka varmint kinder range. Over 12lbs makes shooting really nice but makes carrying less pleasant. You know how you hunt so you have to workout the compromises to suit you. Just on side not for your tikka I would add t3x forend add on and recoil pad to make it bit nicer if you haven't already. Not sure what scope your using either but if its light weight low power 1" an upgrade might help. |
@ 10:09 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Rifle weight for 7mm rem magHi Westerner, quite true, you have summarized this well.Luis's rifle is the middle ground. After bedding and stabilizing or with a heavier optic, some would come in at 10lb to 10.5lb. The figure of 10 to 10.5lb is still within this middle ground between the ultra lights and varmints. Examples include the ADL, BDL, SPS, Bergara etc, bedded and scoped. If you go any lighter than Luis's rig, you may find that the rifle is good to carry but difficult to get a shot away accurately if you have to snap off a shot after climbing (high heart rate). Thomas, the Long range is a bit over 12lb all up (without the fluting). The weight is in both the stock and non-flued barrel. The Sendero is normally 11.5lb all up. You can drop .8lb with one of Clive Judds carbon fiber stocks and drop a shade more weight again by dropping a barrel contour. Not many folk can actually shoot the T3 Lite magnums with great precision in the field, not to the ranges they expect or at least not in a consistent manner. Its one thing to shoot sub half minute at the bench, but throwing down and getting a kill shot away out long is another matter. Any good bloke can be caught out with this. He gets the rifle, sets it up properly, practices a good deal but then gets busy with work for so many weeks. Once the work project is finished, he finally gets away for a weekend only to miss a shot due to a lack of ongoing range time vs the difficulties shooting this rifle. I have seen strong men caught out with this. Brakes and suppressors are unfortunately only temporary fixes due to eventual swelling at the cut threads of the muzzle. Bullet jump is another annoyance. The jump is normally around 80 to 120 thou, longer after throat wear. Ultimately, a new stock and AI type mags are the best fix for this rifle / cartridge combo. Set up this way, you can still keep within that light 9lb range. Your current rifle might also be more interesting to explore (tops loads) with a more comfortable stock. One should never under estimate the .30-06. As an aside, I was asked this same question by email a couple of weeks ago. The guy seemed genuinely in need of help so I put a lot of time into the reply. I also called in the help of a couple of friends just to perhaps give him further insights. And for all of that, he did not even bother to send a thank you email. My bad, I forget that most folk have already made up their minds before contacting me and are simply looking for someone to agree with them. Only a small percentage actually want to learn. (FYI for readers: Clive is still producing stocks, slowly getting ahead but mostly keeping off the net until around February in order to avoid any back log / stress from the hype of re-launch. I will also say, this final carbon fiber design is simply awesome, not to big or small, not too heavy or light. Its such a perfect balance, the result of an extreme work ethic from Clive, putting the R&D way ahead of profits). |
|
@ 10:35 am (GMT) |
Brian PeacockRe: Rifle weight for 7mm rem magWell let me say thanks to all of you for your suggestions. I don’t have my mind made up at all, and I’ve given a lot of thought to keeping the 30-06. From the articles you have on this forum, it’s very apparent that both cartridges have a lot to offer for any of the hunting I’ll be doing where I live in the western US. Nathan, are stock choice and AI mags topics that are covered in your Tikka video? Whether they are or not, I’m planning on purchasing that soon. |
|
@ 11:07 am (GMT) |
Brian PeacockRe: Rifle weight for 7mm rem magOops - I am westerner by the way. |
|
@ 11:09 am (GMT) |
Luis VazquezRe: Rifle weight for 7mm rem magI think we figured out that part Brian Lol.l got some doubts as to the actual weight of my rifle after my post yesterday so after I got home last night I went ahead and weighted it again and its almost at 10.5 lbs, its my 7mm-08's that are just over 9 and a half lbs, sorry for the confusion gents. Best regards Luis |
|
@ 11:13 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Rifle weight for 7mm rem magHi Brian, no I have not put mods in the videos although I have talked about them. The primary goal was to give the viewer a fully in depth understanding of the existing platform, to learn step by step (field evidence filming) how to extract the best from the rifle.Mods are harder to discuss as they change with the seasons. One moment an aftermarket product is available, then its gone again. I have nevertheless discussed various aspects of this is throughout the series as and when the subjects apply. |
|
@ 11:15 am (GMT) |
Thomas KitchenRe: Rifle weight for 7mm rem magThank you for correcting me on Remington long range Nathan, wish they would change the stocks on them.Was keeping quiet about clive stocks as I wasn't sure where he was at with them. I have one on my tikka 270 t3, I really should bed it but finding time with work and family commitments is bit difficult. Managed to find a load around half moa at over 2900 fps with 145gr eld-x so that will do for now. Stocks are truly amazing, problem I have now is I brought one of the 22lr tikka's so ideally I want another stock from clive. The 175gr tmk's might be of use to you for your 30.06 they seem to be middle ground across the board. And should hopefully work with factory mag and bit of jump. I have spare tikka 30.06 barrel so eventually this might be where I'm heading. I believe the tikka video covers more bedding and set up etc but been while since I have watched it. You might find shooting technique book of great help, but also the rifle set up and reloading book. Pretty much you can't go wrong with buying complete set. |
|
@ 11:40 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Rifle weight for 7mm rem magThat's more what I was expecting Luis, 10 to 10.5, a good middle weight.True Thomas, I should be keeping quiet too. It is not only important for Clive to be well set up for next year without customer pressure, but also and more importantly well rested over the xmas school holiday period. |
|
@ 12:50 pm (GMT) |
Luis VazquezRe: Rifle weight for 7mm rem magI don't know how I fumbled that, I remembered it weighed more than my silhouette competition rifle and this one is just under 10 lbs and 2 oz which is the max allowed.When I got it I thought of changing the barrell, that thing is thin and long and though it might have some accuracy issues since at the time there were many accuracy complaints about Remington but that was not the case. I want to bed the stock just haven't had time but once I bed it it should be one crazy accurate gun, I'm already getting half MOA groups with different bullets so it should be fun. |
|
@ 02:57 pm (GMT) |
Brian PeacockRe: Rifle weight for 7mm rem magNathan, I definitely get why covering accessories isn’t really all that practical. Can you tell me which of your books would be the best place to start to get more in depth comparison between the -06 and the 7mm mag? I’ve read just about everything a google search can turn up, but with Internet forums you can never be sure about the information you’re getting.How should I expect recoil to compare between the two calibers using heavy factory loads in similar weight rifles? Nathan, if this is covered in your book please point me in that direction. |
@ 04:44 pm (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Rifle weight for 7mm rem magBrian,Your question is answered in the knowledgebase: "Recoil levels [are] approximately the same as the ever popular 30-06." Also, you will lose about 70 fps with a 24", as opposed to a 26" barrel. Still, you should get the book. Nathan is an entertaining author,. It will provide you a couple days wirth of entertainment, and a future reference. Plus, you won't have to try and separate the wheat from the chaff combing the forums. |
|
@ 07:14 pm (GMT) |
Luis VazquezRe: Rifle weight for 7mm rem magBrian, as I mentioned earlier I'm not recoil sensitive and for me they are both about the same. Shot the 30-06 at a a very young age, then my dad switched us to the 280 Rem and it shot similar bullets weights at similar speeds but with better ballistics then the '06 so down range the 7mm bullet did not drop as fast as the '06. The 280 does have a bit less recoil than the 06 but the 7 Mag is about the same.My brother has a 7 SAUM, my buddy has an '06 and I have the 7mm Rem Mag, we compared recoil just for fun and found out the 7 SAUM recoiled more with a shorter 22" barrel, the 06 has a 24 and mine a 26 For longer distances say 500m to 800m then the 7mm Rem Mag starts to shine, I love the versatility of the 7 with a wide array of bullet weights from light varmint bullets up to my favorite the 162gr SST. Now if you go with the 7 Mag I recommend a 1 in 9 twist at least but preferably a 1 in 8 if you can, so if you decide to shoot the newer higher BC bullets you can, the 1 in 9.25 wont stabilize some 175gr or heavier ones. Hope this helps Luis |
|
@ 07:15 pm (GMT) |
Luis VazquezRe: Rifle weight for 7mm rem magAnd I agree with Scott, get the books |
|
@ 07:50 pm (GMT) |
Thomas KitchenRe: Rifle weight for 7mm rem magUnfortunately you'll be limited with factory ammo if you want to push out long, hornady precision hunter is best at the moment if it shoots well in your rifle.I liked hornady whitetail when I was using factory ammo but wasn't shooting far. Federal blue box is another good option for closer range work. Each book covers different areas obviously it's great to read all 5. I think since you already have a rifle and sticking to factory ammo the accurizing and shooting technique would be of greatest help right now. I see theres bundle deals on books. The skills bundle might be of use. I don't know your situation but most of us end up getting into reloading if it's legal in our country. |
|
@ 06:47 am (GMT) |
Brian PeacockRe: Rifle weight for 7mm rem magThanks everyone. The 280 seems like a great cartridge but I’d have a hard time giving up the universal availability of the 30-06 for the benefits of the 7mm caliber.I think am sticking with the -06 for now. Nathan’s stuff makes it clear that it’s a very capable cartridge for my purposes. |
|
@ 07:56 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Rifle weight for 7mm rem magHi Brian, regarding the books, they each tie into the other. A most important factor is that the books afford me a level of privacy to speak candidly about BS within the entire spectrum of the industry including cost cutting within rifle brands all the way up to issues with the so called top level shooters. The books have qualified statements unlike a forum thread or email where there is only so much space and time to give explanations.Rifles - fundamental understanding of the rifle, various brands / types / stock designs, how this effects recoil etc. Cuts through BS. Use this as a buyer beware. Changes the way you look at both gun shopping and also gun magazine articles, user reviews etc. If reader has taken this info on board, I expect that the reader will never look at these things the same away again. Cartridges - Fundamental understanding of the cartridge, goes much further than the KB. Use this to choose a cartridge, has set formulas to help remove headaches. Goes into great detail about wounding at vearious ranges, teaches you how far you can push things. A large and highly detailed book. Accurizing & Maintenance - Once you have read the above and you are settled on your chosen rifle, this book goes over all the steps for each of the major brands. These are the methods you will use for life, very hands on, step by step. There is a quick set up guide for the Tikka that bears no relation to any user manual but along with this I have included detailed steps on bedding etc. So there is a lot to it, but the entire book is centered around DIY usage / self empowerment. Reloading - The goal here is extreme accuracy but in the most simple steps. Lets say a guy loathes mucking around with this sort of thing and finds shopping for reloading kit to be confusing. This book simplifies your purchases and methods. Rather than treating extreme accuracy as some mythical goal that only experts can achieve, I treat it as a process of problem solving. So we work to a basic formula, then if you have a problem, steps are taken to remedy it. In other words, accuracy is achieved by degrees in very basic steps as and when you are ready. I also like power so the book teaches you to let your rifle do the talking, letting you know how fast it can be loaded rather than any guess work or trying a mates hot (and dangerous) load. Reloading ties back into both the Cartridges and shooting book. As an example of what you could achieve- your .30-06 might like 56 grains of Superformance powder in a Hornady case, driving the 195 grain ELD-M at about 2600 to 2650fps. This is probably far more potent (wide wounding) than any load you have ever experienced in a .30-06 or perhaps experienced in rifles owned by friends. Shooting - I don't really know how to put this without offending a very large number of people. I don't know what to say. Think of some modern / current expert, any expert, someone you think is the best shot ever, best website, best endorsements, books or movies made about him, shooting school tours - whatever. Now imagine if all of that was based on bullshit. Thats what you get when you read Shooting. Again its kept very simple and its also kept honest by using the Tikka T3 lite as a case in point and a challenge to anyone who would disagree with the methods taught in the book. The book covers the basic principles through to long range. It also covers backpack work (what you should pack), knives, through to game skinning etc. This is quite a large book. Shooting ties back into Rifles and Cartridges. I wanted to write this book first to serve as a foundation but ultimately wrote the series in the above order. SAWB is my most recent. It is not part of the guide series. Readers have to write a covering letter before purchasing. SAWB is not a hunting book (some folk write letters of application, stating that they want to read SAWB to become better hunters). SAWB is however another de-bullshitting book but I had to change my writing style somewhat to make it palatable for the scientific community. This is my thesis, establishing my professional position as a subject matter expert on an international scale. This book is designed for and is currently being by used all levels of the police, military and medical disciplines. |
@ 08:21 am (GMT) |
Ryan NafeRe: Rifle weight for 7mm rem magHey fellas, I’m not sure how helpful it’ll be but I’ll make a few notes on my current setup for my 7mm Rem Mag rifle:The base rifle is Remington 700 BDL (hinged floorplate)SPS, a 26” barreled and very basic rifle. I’ve put it into a rather bulky and heavy laminate stock, and mounted a sort of mid weight scope on it, the Sightron S-TAC 3-16x42mm (duplex reticle) With everything on it, sling, scope, and ammo, it’s right at 12 pounds and balances right on the front action screw. This might seem a bit heavy, but the neutral balance point makes it very lively and fast to get on target. Right now I’m very satisfied with the weight and balance because it’s both quick to aim and easy to hold on target, and the 1.5 pound trigger means that the heavy rifle can be shot offhand with very good accuracy compared to a rifle with less weight or a heavier trigger. I did carry this with me on several deer drives this year (generally involves a lot of walking to push animals around and a little sitting in impromptu field positions while waiting in ambush) and while it was certainly a lot heavier than my .308 rifle (7lbs. All-up weight) I didn’t feel it was too much to deal with in that situation either. Felt recoil is very minimal, I could shoot this rifle all day if I had enough ammo and time for cooling between shots. |
|
@ 08:35 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Rifle weight for 7mm rem magLuis, I am still not sold on the 8 twist. Actually I am not entirely sold on the 10 twist .30 cal when so many 11 twists shoot the 208gr so well (.308, .30-06, .300 Win Mag).A fast twist is important for stability when shooting through the transonic barrier which applies to only a very few people. But at 100 yards, a fast twist is more likely to cause more problems than it solves. Please observe the following statement: If your rifle will not shoot a particular heavy bullet (within reason / some common sense please), chances are that the barrel harmonics or chamber geometry are the problem, not the twist. Twist is given far too much play as a cure for 100 yard woes. Even bedding harmonics can make it appear as though a light bullet shoots better than a heavy one. The next is hard for me to convey (the gravity of). Recently, I have been finding that the combination of high finished bores (high lapping grits on aftermarket barrels) and aggressive twists has continued to create more dangerous rifles. I wrote about this in the Accurizing book (bore finish section) but folk still fail to recognize the significance of this. In magnum power rifles, if friction is reduced too much, the parts (bullet / bore) can stick. This combined with a fast twist can cause pressures high enough to rupture cases. I have seen more of this (reader emails) this year than I have ever seen. A major problem with this phenomena is that nobody wants to talk about it openly. A guy blows a case and immediately thinks he did something wrong. He mucks around, it happens again and now he is thinking that he is a right idiot and that he must be missing something basic. Eventually, with shattered nerves, he writes in to me, sending photos to show the problem. One day alone I had two identical emails, so identical (Same components), that I thought it was one guy sending two emails. In each case, the problem was the same. Another man took me to task over this. The cases were rupturing (after fine bore lapping) and he stated that although he had read Accurizing, he felt that the book still lacked qualification, I may have been wrong and that as a forensics expert, he was in a position to test this more thoroughly via his lab. So he bought another rifle from the same batch / caliber and did the lapping again and ruptured his cases again as a result of high pressures. While it was somewhat annoying to have someone openly show a lack of trust in my work, he nevertheless proved the condition. Please, when reading the books, understand that there are some aspects of the books which I do not go into in huge levels of detail simply because it would distract the reader too much. A good keen bloke wants to get out shooting, not sit and debate over it via a wordy tome. Statements in the books are qualified but there is only so far I can go without distracting the reader from the path. Therefore, please pay attention to both simple and complex statements. I was hoping to write an in depth blog post about this but as always, time got away from me this year. Regarding the M700 SPS / ADL, below is a group shot by the owner of the SPS rifle featured in the video - M700 troubleshooting. This is the video version of my Accurizing book, as it pertains to the M700. The group was shot using the 180gr ELD-M from the factory 1:9.25 twist bore. Those familiar with this video will know that this rifle was grouping all over an A4 at the start of the video. By the end of the video, the rifle was shooting extremely well (162gr). The photo below was sent to me by the owner of the rifle some time later (180gr ELD-M). https://vimeo.com/ondemand/remington700 
Anyway Luis, there may be some hope for your rifle. OK, heavy thunder and lightning here, better hit the post button before this connection fails. |
|
@ 08:49 am (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: Rifle weight for 7mm rem magConnection still alive....Going on from the above: An aggressive twist can be very hard on bullet jackets and can show diminished rather than improved accuracy in high velocity (magnum) chamberings. A highly finished bore can display increased rather than decreased friction along with dangerous pressures. A combination of both of the above can compound issues. All of this information may be annoying to the beginner and simply dis-empowering. Better that he learn basic steps using a factory rifle than to be discussing the pros and cons of 8 twist custom bores. |
|
@ 09:21 am (GMT) |
Luis VazquezRe: Rifle weight for 7mm rem magThanks Nathan and you are correct, shooters out there are trying to make the 7mm Rem Mag shoot like a 7 STW or a 28 Nosler and just cant do that, the results are what you mentioned. I do think an 8 twist would be good for the 195gr Berger bullets for target shooting at reasonable speeds.I have no need for heavy bullets right now, I'm happy with my 162gr and 160gr bullets grouping half MOA. I only get to hunt big game twice or three times a year so I don't need more than these for coues, mulies, elk and Javelina. I have a large stockpile of bullets that will take me a while to go through and my barrell might be shot out before im done with these bullets. I just wanted to throw out there the option I'm not about getting the max speed possible, I do want it by its more about accuracy for me. Thanks again Sir |
|
@ 03:08 pm (GMT) |
Scott StruifRe: Rifle weight for 7mm rem magLuis, I got where you were coming from, but defer to Nathan There's a US barrel maker, maybe others, that sells barrels with progressively increasing twist rates. Maybe that's the wave of the future. I'm sick of reading about the Creedmores and their high BCs. All the rag-pundits would have you believe the 243 is crippled by its inability to shoot 120 grain bullets, the 25-06 is no good because it won't shoot 130 grain bulletvuos, and the 270 is obsolete because, alas, it can't handle 160 grain bullets. This is all the fault of the manufacturers, who, relying on outdated specs, fail to produce faster-twist barrels. Every diameter has a point of diminishing returns, where the enhanced BC of long-for-caliber bullets fails to live up to its purported benefit. Muzzle velocity suffers when the bullet gains weight and twist rate increases. So why shoot a heavy/long-for-caliber bullet when you can step up a caliber and shoot the heavier bullet faster? Because the Creedmores are untoucable, in a class of their own. |
@ 04:51 pm (GMT) |
Paul LevermanRe: Rifle weight for 7mm rem magOn a totally unrelated google search, a page of references to the Creedmoor came up, so I had a look at some of the articles and reviews. Out of the dozen or so that I read, not one mentioned this round as a hunting round. All of them touted its ability to fly fast and flat out to the target. Most of these were shooting for score, some for groups. A lot of talk about "over the course" which I assume is some sort of competition. Interesting that hunters have taken it upon themselves to claim it as the one and only, all others be damned, long range hunting round.Sorry for the hijack. |
|
@ 08:02 am (GMT) |
Luis VazquezRe: Rifle weight for 7mm rem magI get it Scott amd Nathan, see your point and agree.But now come on guys we all know the creedmoor will kiil an elk at a mile and a half away Lol. I will say this, I've been in several forums and your work Nathan is well known and respected by many |
Please wait
ABOUT USWe are a small, family run business, based out of Taranaki, New Zealand, who specialize in cartridge research and testing, and rifle accurizing.
|
KNOWLEDGEBASE |
KNOWLEDGEBASE |