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Forum Index > Rifles general discussion > 6.5mm 147 ELD-M?

6.5mm 147 ELD-M?

11 Sep 2018
@ 12:26 pm (GMT)

Jonathan Stamper

I’ve read my copy of the Cartridges book, great info. However, it predated the release of the 6.5mm 147g ELD-M.

Are there any field results on game yet?

I am looking for a single bullet for the 6.5 Creedmoor for whitetail deer from 20 to 600 yards. Does this bullet fit the bill?

Replies

12 Sep 2018
@ 01:44 am (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: 6.5mm 147 ELD-M?
Read all the 6.5 calibres section of the Cartridges Knowledge base. Do you reload? Bullet performance is calibre size and speed related. So 6.5-06 ,6.5 x 55, 6.5 Creedmoor and others will be similar. Same diameter various MV speeds = same results. I dual load. 140 partition on top for close out to 250 yards and 140 Amax-ELD-M for the longer ranges with my hand loads in my Sako 75 SS 6.5 X 55 Swede both with MV 2850fps 22inch barrel. Nothing special about the Creedmoor. Just another 6.5cal rifle. Sub MOA Groups, correct shot placement and repeatable skill are keys to success as with any hunting. With realistic expectations of your chosen calibres power level ft-lbs of energy and bullet choice. It's all in the books. In time. Nathan, with time permitting will probably list 147gn eld-m results.
12 Sep 2018
@ 04:57 am (GMT)

Jonathan Stamper

Re: 6.5mm 147 ELD-M?
Actually, it’s not quite ALL in the books, lol, specifically the info (field results with 147 ELD-M) I’m lookong for.

I’ve got about 20 years of successful hunting at the aforementioned ranges (mostly with .308, but also 7mmRM, 300 Win Mag, and 7mm STW). I shoot long range both competitively and informally, so I do have at least a rudimentary understanding. I do handload.

I’m looking for a different solution than you arrived at (double loading) for a number of reasons. I think the 140 ELDM would be fine, just interested in how the 147’s are playing out on game in the real world. The extra weight should help at closer range, as long as they’re as soft as the other eldm/Amax (for long-range). Thanks for the reply though!
12 Sep 2018
@ 07:30 am (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: 6.5mm 147 ELD-M?
Hi Jonathan, just before I answer your question, I want to say that Warwick has a very good handle on this as he has taken very large bodied deer with the 6.5. Most folk want me to supply a one size fits all answer but this does not work so well for the 6.5. I suggest dual loading but people don't want to know about it, they pass it off with an offhand comment. Warwick on the other hand took the KB advice to heart. One of his hunting buddies (.30-06 user) calls Warwick's Swede the meat f**er after seeing its performance with the Partition. Most folk will never actually get to see this level of performance from the 6.5's.

As to your question, the 147gr has been going fine. It does not have the same potential as a 160gr or heavier bullet, unfortunately no major increase in penetration, full and complete fragmentation at closer ranges. On heavy deer, it still pays to dual load for close range work. But on light weight deer it works fine as an all rounder (close / long). We have pushed it out long and found that it behaves the same as other ELD-M projectiles. 600 yards is no big deal for this projectile.

As an aside, I think this situation might have been better for the more discerning shooters had Hornady skipped the Creedmoor and gone with the 6.5PRC loaded with a 160gr bullet. But as it is, the Creedmoor has been a major success via a mixture of marketing and the availability of budget rifles. Perhaps a bit like pop music.

12 Sep 2018
@ 10:39 am (GMT)

Jonathan Stamper

Re: 6.5mm 147 ELD-M?
I was hoping that the 147 might be significantly better at close range than the 140, oh well, I guess you can’t have it all...

I think I’ll give the 147’s a try if they shoot as good in my rifle as the 140’s. If I decide to use this cartridge on larger game (unlikely), or if the terminal performance this fall isn’t to my liking, I’ll double-load. I want to avoid that because I want to shoot the same bullet for target and hunting if practicable; there is a lot to be said for familarity, and 1000+ rounds per year with a bullet on targets builds a lot of familarity. 178 ELD’s in my 308 feel like an old friend, and the 140’s in the Creedmoor are quickly becoming the same.

Regarding your PRS/Creedmoor comment, I have been considering the PRS for my next rifle, but not sure yet. There is a lot of contradictory info regarding actual velocity gains over the Creed; folks comparing hot-loaded Creed to factory PRS, etc. I’ll let it shake out before making that move.

You’re right the Creedmoor is like a pop star here in the US. This year it has exploded even more. I was a very late adopter for that reason. However, it finally dawned on me that it’s not just weekend warriors with a Ruger American or Savage Axis shooting the Creed, tons of very experienced, very competitive, very good shooters are shooting it, often in top-tier custom rifles. Sure, lots of them are moving to 6mm for competition, but just because they are looking for an edge, not because they were unhappy with the 6.5.

Yes there was/is an annoying amount of marketing, but the real shooters use it for one reason, it works. For its primary purpose (long-range target), it is simply an outstanding cartridge. Maybe it doesn’t have a major advantage over any other 6.5, but it is extremely easy to find an accurate load for, which may/may not relate to what I argue is one of the biggest reasons it has become so popular with a broad audience...Creedmoor factory ammo is incredibly good. A true 1000y turn-key target package can be had from a big-box retailer for a reasonable amount of money. We shouldn’t turn our noses up at that, we need all the shooting sports enthusiasts we can get. (Now if they all go lobbing bullets at game at 1K yards by time they’re halfway through their second box of ammo, that’s another story... I don’t think that happens as much as we might fear, though, for a number of reasons)

12 Sep 2018
@ 11:10 am (GMT)

Jonathan Stamper

Re: 6.5mm 147 ELD-M?
Sorry, by “PRS” above, I meant “PRC.”
13 Sep 2018
@ 11:48 am (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: 6.5mm 147 ELD-M?
HI Jonathan
Just thought I would throw a note in here about double loading
I shoot a 6.5 rem mag with 147grain I have talked to Nathan about same concerns
I think lot of people mistake the concept of dual loading for Bush stalking
we aren't looking for another half inch load what we are looking for a load with same point of impact out to the range we are expecting to take snap shots.
If our second load shoots 1-1.5 inch but we only attend to use it at 100-150 yards it's fine
13 Sep 2018
@ 11:59 am (GMT)

Jonathan Stamper

Re: 6.5mm 147 ELD-M?
Thanks. I’ve actually been thinking along those lines today...and for just, say, 150y and in, the POI wouldn’t even have to be exactly that of your LR load, seems like that within an inch or two would work fine.
30 Dec 2018
@ 07:52 am (GMT)

Lane Salvato

Re: 6.5mm 147 ELD-M?
Nathan mentioned the 6.5 PRC loaded with 160 grain bullets. I'm not a huge fan of the 6.5, but I wasn't even aware that the 6.5 PRC would handle 160 grain bullets. Stabilize them I mean. It does beg the question though. You can get 160 + grain bullets all day long in the 7 mm-08, 280, and 7 mm Magnum.
30 Dec 2018
@ 08:27 am (GMT)

Steve Garbe

Re: 6.5mm 147 ELD-M?
Take all the hype away and don't expect it to drop bull elk DRT at 1000 yards...the 6.5 Creedmoor is a useful and easy-to-work-with cartridge in my experience. I like to stalk, get relatively close, and make a surgical killing shot. The 6.5 CM works great for me in this regard. That being said, it doesn't do a thing that my 6.5x55 doesn't.

Steve Garbe
30 Dec 2018
@ 08:35 am (GMT)

Lane Salvato

Re: 6.5mm 147 ELD-M?
Yeah Steve I agree. If they hadn't hyped it as the Death Star it may have caught on with experienced hunters as a great deer rifle without any negative push back. Gun writers have that affect sometimes.
08 Jan 2019
@ 09:23 am (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: 6.5mm 147 ELD-M?
140gn 6.5 Partition . 50 yards Running shot. 75 mm/3 inch round cavity thru left rear ham. Bullet Stopped up in spine above liver. Red Hind yearling.





And then you have good friends giving you sea food



Happy new year to you all.
09 Jan 2019
@ 10:00 pm (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: 6.5mm 147 ELD-M?
MV 2850 fps. Powder ADI 2209 46gns, norma case, fed 215 LR primer
Rifle- modern Sako 75 Stainless Synthetic
NOTE- load is above book max and was carefully developed from 44.5gns up in half gn steps. DON'T COPY 😕. Work up your own loads to suit your own rifle.
12 Jan 2019
@ 08:39 pm (GMT)

mark

Re: 6.5mm 147 ELD-M?
Hi Warwick,
I've been using the Barnes 120ttsx for bush hunting with my 6.5x55, they perform really well but I get a fair bit of copper fouling and they are not so accurate unless I load them extra long.

Thinking of trying the partition, how much jump have you got?

I'm considering dual load with the ELD M if I can get acceptable accuracy. Any tips on that load please?

The bedding on my rifle is good but it's still a bit a finicky accuracy wise, howa 1500, shoots 130 Berger's great 1/4 moa but they only good for paper. Most other bullets around 1 moa at best.

Doesnt matter too much, will always be a good bush rifle, I got a couple dedicated long range rigs.



Cheers
Mark

13 Jan 2019
@ 10:28 am (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: 6.5mm 147 ELD-M?
Hi Mark. I find that the 140 Partition and 140 A-max shoot to the same point of impact with the same charge of powder out to 200 yards. So I always double load. Two partitions and 3 A-max As my hunting always has the possibility of a "Close encounter of the deer kind"..... as well as long shots. Here's the thing to remember. Take your time and keep calm. A spooked running deer up close. Identify identify identify raise weapon let out a loud bark! Braaaaah!!!! As running Deer usually raise head and stop for a second, reticle on vital point of aim squeeze BOOM! RELOAD take second deer if you want/can/need the meat. RELOAD.....
Now if you have done it right two dead deer are down. If you can see them watch and see through scope/Binoculars and see if it's sitting up trying to get away. Check both deer. If dead get in give thanks to the great spirit of life and bleed out. Do the same for the second, third animals. Again this varies depending on the triage assessment of the deer. Be safe, quick, clean and respectful.
If you see deer at a distance and the wind, sun,location of deer and yourself allows the shot. Stop sit get ready, pop magazine remove partitions top up with A-max. Breathe in and relax. Be in the moment. You're about to share an age old experience that our ancestors with spears, rocks, throwing sticks, arrows and muskets have experienced thousands of years ago. Through the ages and now . The technology has changed not the hunt.
Range find, look at what's behind your target? If you miss what will you hit!!!! Think and always be aware of your surroundings. Calmly set your turrets get in position line up. Set zoom, focus scope, relax, breath. Close bolt get into the zone breath control + on the spot squeeze BOOM! RELOAD.... watch breath..... get a fix landmarks to locate the animal. Trees bushes or if with a mate one of you stay while the other goes to the location. Radios can be a great help. Gps if you have it
Even a compass and map or just use your internal compass smell and listen for the flies.
A good dog is a great finding friend to have. The easy part is pulling the trigger. The work and rewards come from the work in getting it all home. I take the whole thing less gut and head. I take the tongue eye teeth sell them to Jeweller or get earrings made for your sweetheart. Check for parasites and disease. Remove and keep offal yum! Strap and carry out.


Double loading is just a way to get the job done without any problems from frangipani bullets blowing up because the velocity is too high for the bullet to work as designed. Remember to think! Be aware of your situation and the tools you have available to deal with it effectively. Plan ahead not behind.! Good hunting everyone.
Identify your target beyond all possible doubt. ... Warwick [img]
13 Jan 2019
@ 03:27 pm (GMT)

Iain

Re: 6.5mm 147 ELD-M?
I see some potential for relatively fuss free dual loading in the Sierra lineup. 6.5 130g TMK and Gamechanger for instance.

Similar opportunities in 7mm and 308. Even 195TMK and 200 Game King ? The spec simply look like achieving similar POI and accuracy may be easier than with some other combinations.

130gn is not 147gn though.
13 Jan 2019
@ 05:40 pm (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: 6.5mm 147 ELD-M?
7 grains isn't a lot. About 1.47% more than a 140 grain pill. So its not gonna make it hurt any more than 140 grain ?
Quick death is the result of accurately directed trauma to the right location of your foods anatomy and vital organs. Same weight bullet same amount of boom Dust and the results are not a problem. You need to be fussy with your Long Range Ammo for sure. Your close range ammo you need to concentrate on getting the right type of bullet for the game you're chasing. The hight of the scope above the barrel needs to be allowed for in real close too remember! Aim for the brain and you blow the jaw off! Been there done that and was lucky enough to get a follow-up shot a minute later before deer recovered from the initial shock!!!! It sucked doing that to the animal.
17 Jan 2019
@ 06:40 pm (GMT)

Jon Short

Re: 6.5mm 147 ELD-M?
re: I find that the 140 Partition and 140 A-max shoot to the same point of impact with the same charge of powder out to 200 yards.

Yeah thanks Warwick. I agree. I have done the same with my 6.5x55 Howa. (bedded etc)

I've shot a reasonable nos of deer with 140G Amax / ELD-M & its always been pretty good, but I do notice the reasonable amount of surface blow up at close ranges/high impact velocities, or particularly where the angle the deer was standing at was quite flat. (quartering away, point of impact back of rib cage angling forward) Still seems to punch through the vitals though & animals do not go far if at all.

Recently I worked up a load with the 140G Partition. Load is different (lower powder... I think because the partition increases pressure in my rifle relative to the same load in an AMax / ELD-M) but POI at 100yds is so close to the AMax that dual loading is a-ok for most of the deer stalking I am doing.

I have a lot of confidence in the AMax further out, but having recently shot a red with the Partition at 100-120 odd yards, & seen the difference in performance at closer ranges, I am impressed & totally see & benefits, & back Warwick's comments re the virtues of dual loading with these two projectiles in the 6.5x55.

The partition seems to me to be a lot tougher than the AMax / ELD-M at close ranges/high velocities, as is ideally required.

Both good projectiles in 6.5, just different. Velocity in my rifle is same as Warwicks at 2850fps. (loaded above book max :-))

Cheers & all the best for the new year fellas.

Jon
19 Jan 2019
@ 02:52 pm (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: 6.5mm 147 ELD-M?
Hey Jon I'm in Katikati up Thompsons track. If you want to do some shooting out to 480 yards let me know? The A-max/eld m do tend to vaporize at high speed in close. I took a spiker @ 75 yards front on. Aimed to where the windpipe and throat enters the chest cavity. Instant death of animal. But it was like a mini grenade went off practically disconnected the lower neck from the body and very little damage to the heart n lungs. A-max for 250+ yards and partitions from Zero to there. The sweed in a new modern action with proper loads sure aint no pussy when you use it correctly.
20 Jan 2019
@ 07:05 am (GMT)

Lane Salvato

Re: 6.5mm 147 ELD-M?
Warwick,

Thank you for this string. I want to try this with the 6.5. You're giving some good advice and I can't wait to try it.

Thanks again.
20 Jan 2019
@ 10:16 am (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: 6.5mm 147 ELD-M?
Thanks Lane
You just have to have realistic and educated expectations for any of your Calibres and its projectiles design construction. Remember the bird proof glass for high speed trains. When they tested it the test chickens came from the super market. They fired a dead bird at the glass. @ 200kph!!! The bird flew straight through the glass...? Someone didn't know that wild chickens aren't frozen solid in the wild...
What you might call a "poor execution of a good (no chook was hurt) in testing this experiment"
.
20 Jan 2019
@ 10:16 am (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: 6.5mm 147 ELD-M?
Thanks Lane
You just have to have realistic and educated expectations for any of your Calibres and its projectiles design construction. Remember the bird proof glass for high speed trains. When they tested it the test chickens came from the super market. They fired a dead bird at the glass. @ 200kph!!! The bird flew straight through the glass...? Someone didn't know that wild chickens aren't frozen solid in the wild...
What you might call a "poor execution of a good (no chook was hurt) in testing this experiment"
.
20 Jan 2019
@ 01:28 pm (GMT)

Lane Salvato

Re: 6.5mm 147 ELD-M?
Yes, I was gifted a 6.5 at Christmas which I will gladly use for normal hunting of deer and pronghorn sized animals but wouldn't dare use it for long range.
20 Jan 2019
@ 01:28 pm (GMT)

Lane Salvato

Re: 6.5mm 147 ELD-M?
Yes, I was gifted a 6.5 at Christmas which I will gladly use for normal hunting of deer and pronghorn sized animals but wouldn't dare use it for long range.
20 Jan 2019
@ 10:12 pm (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: 6.5mm 147 ELD-M?
What a great gift. Which of the 6.5 family is it?
 

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